Clark trade discussion #2 (please read opening post)

[Milk Steak]

Some kids get better when you have decent players around you. Duffield doesn't have to be here more than 4 years and win a premiership to make us a better team in the future, we have alot of kids on the park as is.Just what I think.

 

[Grimreepah]

I am starting to suspect you are confusing Duffield with Mundy.

Negative.

But what you see as 'well covered' I see as a glaring weakness.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Negative.

But what you see as 'well covered' I see as a glaring weakness.

Our whole team is a glaring weakness. Primarily due to inexperience players still finding their feet.

Plug gaps when the time comes.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Some kids get better when you have decent players around you. Duffield doesn't have to be here more than 4 years and win a premiership to make us a better team in the future, we have alot of kids on the park as is.Just what I think.

So an end of first round pick for a player who will plug a gap in a bottom 8 side for a few years? No thanks. Adcock, McGrath, Drummond etc can show our young players how it is done for now. I doubt we are dying for the experience and mentorship of Paul Duffield.

I'd rather give the pick to Hadley and let him try and find us another Karnezis or Redden.

If we get Duffield as a sweetener as part of the Clark trade, so be it, but stuff giving up first round draft picks for him.

 

[Milk Steak]

If we could get Clarke for Mitch, you'd take it in a second. Zac is the exact type of player we need. And with mitch out of contract and saying WA is the only place he wants to go, you'd be laughing if Freo let you have a talent like that.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

Agree with Browndog. Don't want a player that won't be in our 22 in 3 or 4 years time when we are hopefully contenders again. He would be a good stop gap player in the next season or 2 but not when it counts down the track. Lets continue to build for the future and not tommorow.

Stick me in that category also.
I won't be happy if the trade involves stockgap players that may provide some value for a few years, but not be around when we are contenders.

Also agree with Dylan in regards to the value of 15 spots within the draft order.

As discussed its likely to be rubbish so hopefully it's nothing to get concerned about.

Confusing Munday & Duffield made me laugh.

 

[Grimreepah]

Our whole team is a glaring weakness. Primarily due to inexperience.

Plug gaps when the time comes.

Development can stifle if you've got missing links in the chain.

Duffield would help provide some system in the back half, which will have a knock on effect up the ground.

 

[Grimreepah]

Take the average career length of pick 20 or so, and the odds are that Duffield will have a longer career anyway.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Duffield would help provide some system in the back half, which will have a knock on effect up the ground.

Back half looked ok to me when Merrett was fit and firing.

 

[Grimreepah]

Back half looked ok to me when Merrett was fit and firing.

Defensively yes.

Offensively we are very poor.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Defensively yes.

Offensively we are very poor.

I'll take a punt on more improvement from Hanley, a better injury run for Drummo and a youngster making a solid claim on a half back flank (Polec or Bartlett perhaps).

Anyway, like I said, if Duffield comes as steak knives, I'll welcome it, but in the lens of that Facebook trade, giving up the end of first round pick in the 2012 superdraft for him isn't value IMO.

 

[POBT]

I think there are two different debates.

Do we have a weakness at HBF that we need to rectify? IMO, yes.

Is Duffield the right player at the price named? IMO, no.

 

[Milk Steak]

Back half looked ok to me when Merrett was fit and firing.

Merrett adds spoiling, but our ball use down back would be described as pretty woeful compared to most other teams. Like grim said before, Drummond is older than Duffield and is injured most of the time and when you take him out, Adcock is our only other experienced player who can use the ball down back. Duffield is only 26 right now and people seem to suggest that 30 is the retirement age when trading players in. Him and adcock are the same age and you'd say Jed will be around in our next window

 

[Happy_Neale]

Though I don't think it is a true reflection of Mitch's true value, I'd be willing and happy to concede Clark for Clarke in the circumstances.

As for the rest of the trade, I'd rather keep the compo pick and give Duffield a miss.

Yeah I would have been happier with Mayne personally, would fit into our team perfectly and fill the position left by Power. No point getting too bent out of shape over a likely fictional trade I guess.

I think you are still drastically underestimating Mitch Clark's worth and that is evident when you compare his 2009 form to the last two seasons. Sure, he may not live up to the 2009 form again, but I still think if Mitch Clark gets himself right, he could easily be in the top 5 players in the comp, a feat I doubt Zac Clarke could achieve. There aren't many tall players with the capabilities and tank similar to Goodes, Natanui and Cox and Mitch Clark has those capabilities and IMO a much bigger upside.

Obviously we have a difference of opinion on the issue and it is a pity for the Lions that Clark is coming off a season that is well below his best.

It's a void argument to revert back to 2009 to prove his worth IMO. Z. Clarke showed enormous improvement this season and a willingness for the contest which is something we haven't seen for two seasons with Mitch. I don't doubt Mitch COULD do that role, but he failed pretty badly at it this season, save for one or two good games.

Don't get me wrong, I think he is a great talent, but the way his off field events affected his footy for the last two seasons paints the picture of someone who can't perform well in adversity. Nothing against him though and I genuinely hope we see the best of him again...except when he plays the Lions.

I beg to differ and think there is a massive difference between the quality of player at say 25 compared to somewhere in the 40's and even moreso if the reported depth of this year's talent is to be believed.

Maybe, but as I said, if we are willing to part with that pick, Hadley must have a plan as to what picks he will need for what players.

 

[Swanny10]

While I would prefer to pick up a young prospect along with pick 16 if Duffield is on offer as part of this trade I would be open to him coming to the lions.

While not coming off his best year he seemed to fall out of favor at Freo. At his best he is a damaging rebounding defender who can break the lines and also someone who can be rotated through the midfield. If he could regain his 2009/2010 form he would be a big asset.

I would've thought he is a better player than Hawksley or Stiller. We've already lost Staker for the season and I have concerns about Drummond being able see the season out, so he could be handy.

 

[Dylan12]

If we are going after mature types, lets get Leuey some backup.

Could someone like a Brent Renouf be an option here, if Zac Clarke isn't apart of the Mitch Clark trade?...like all trade rumours, I've heard from a senior colleague that he wants out of Hawthorn. Can't say I've seen a lot of him over the past season and even remember how good he is as a forward either, but I'd imagine he wants opportunity, so not sure if we could necessarily provide that on a consistent basis unless, god forbid, Leuey was injured.

 

[LionMen]

I think people need to get over Drummond, I am not doubting he is a star player and great kick but has only played 79 games in his career! He is 28 and doesn't look like he will ever be able to play a full season with his rate of injuries.

 

[Dormammu]

Were I a Lions supporter I'd be leery about taking any of the lower ranked Freo players.

Notwithstanding recent wins most seem to struggle with the tight spaces and playing surface of the 'gabba (ditto SCG).

 

[Hollow Knight]

Do we have a weakness at HBF that we need to rectify? IMO, yes.

Is Duffield the right player at the price named? IMO, no.

Yeah. Tyson Goldsack on the other hand...

 

[Dom PC]

Josh Drummond owes the club a lot when you think about it. He should play 18 games min next season or think about retiring. Because he isn't worth the 350k a year he's getting if he only plays 10 games a year. Yes I am aware some other club would just pick him up... Mal Michael style, but hope you know what I'm getting at.

Can someone tell me a player who has been at a club until the age of 29 (next season) and wont even have played 100 games. Not doubting there are some out there, but it would be an interesting list.

Anyone thinks Voss might wait untill freo trade with another club and then organise something considering the situation we are in with freo's lack of players worth the same as mitch ?

I still like the idea of us some how getting 3 way trade to get Richmonds pick 12 or what about 3 way trade with St kilda to get Rhys Stanley? Exact type of player as Clark and 3 years younger!

 

[Ironmonger]

Duffield would give us a marginal improvement in the backline for a few years. Not worth trading for, but worth taking if he wants to come.

If we have to pay him an extra $100k on top of what he's worth to get him to Brisbane, then forget it.

On one hand I feel like there's no point trading for anyone significantly older than 23, seeing as most of our best talent is around that age level, but on the other hand there's always the chance we could overperform in the next few years.

 

[jackess]

Can someone tell me a player who has been at a club until the age of 29 (next season) and wont even have played 100 games. Not doubting there are some out there, but it would be an interesting list.

J-Pod.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Josh Drummond owes the club a lot when you think about it. He should play 18 games min next season or think about retiring. Because he isn't worth the 350k a year he's getting if he only plays 10 games a year. Yes I am aware some other club would just pick him up... Mal Michael style, but hope you know what I'm getting at.

Can someone tell me a player who has been at a club until the age of 29 (next season) and wont even have played 100 games. Not doubting there are some out there, but it would be an interesting list.

To be fair, Drummo didn't debut till he was 22-23.

 

[Dom PC]

To be fair, Drummo didn't debut till he was 22-23.

I know what you mean. But 7 seasons for 79 games isn't exactly a pretty sight. Especially since you'd think once your past 21 your growth has stopped and hopefully are a little less injury prone and your matured body.
Perhaps should have clarified what I ment

Sorry didn't mean to come across as a hater of drummond. I really like him and hope he plays on till 31-32.

 

[Brisroy Fitzbane]

Drummond is my favourite player (when he's fit)