Politics Climate Change Paradox (cont in part 2)

[Hawk_francais]

HF
Let us ALL accept for a moment your "non alarmist" claims are correct.
Seems to me the converted convinced "non alarmists" only wish to try and convince others by screaming -'somebody do something'!

You blame Australia for selling coal. Do you think China won't buy it's coal elsewhere if little OZ stops selling it?
Do you think the Saudi's or Iran will stop selling oil.? For that matter the super greenie country of Norway stop seeling Oil and gas, which is the basis of their whole economy they will stop it all, by taking your lead and example.

Have you stopped driving your polluting vehicle and walk and/or push bike everywhere
Refused to buy ANY clothes or goods from China or USA or India
You don't buy anything transported by fossil fuel or wrapped in plastic (oil product)
Could you quickly teach all those coal workers how to hunt kangaroos and goanna's and pick berries and bush tucker?

Well?
Just "holding you to account"

No good screaming about the problem, if you have not got a viable solution and just want to appear as morally "right" but in every personal way hypocritically 'wrong'

You say it’s no good screaming about the problem. What would you advise me to do? Set up a climate ‘council’ full if other scientists to lobby the government into reducing carbon emmisions? It hasnt worked,

You don’t know anything about my personal life, you dont need to. It’s not about oil in the middle east. It’s about Australia, us and what we will control. Everyone has sat on their hands for 30-40 years now, waiting for someone else to lead the way in reducing dependence on fossil fuels. Im saying now to take seriously the projections of climate science. Avoid supporting papers, media and political groups who help to supress and downplay the problem, and especially those who take their donations from big polluters.

 

[Deliverance]

Where's the outrage? Or does that only apply to Flannery, Mullins and other climate change activists?

"Christine Finlay has been sounding the alarm on bushfires in Australia for more than a decade after tracking the relationship between reduced cool burning and the frequency of firestorms. And the Queensland-based fire researcher, who charted a century of archival bushfire records for her PhD, has long been screaming danger.
Finlay’s thesis examined problem bushfires between 1881 and 1981. What she found after plotting the historical data on a graph was that there was a marked increase in the size and frequency of fires after 1919. This was when bushfire-reduction operations increasingly moved away from traditional indigenous practices such as low-intensity cool burning.

Finlay says this detailed correlation between the accumulation of catastrophic fuel loads and the frequency of extreme bushfires made it possible to forecast the dramatic increase in firestorms we have seen in the 21st century

“For years, I energetically sent this predictive model to government agencies, in particular bushfire services, the media, coronial and parliamentary inquiries and so on,” she says. “Horribly ignored, it proved horribly accurate.”

Finlay has the support of forester Vic Jurskis, who has written a book on fire stick ecology and how indigenous Australians managed the landscape with fire.

In an open letter to the Prime Minister, premiers, chief ministers and opposition leaders in November, Jurskis said this season’s bushfire situation was neither unprecedented nor unexpected.

“This latest holocaust is a direct consequence of unprecedented accumulation of 3D continuous fuels as a result of green influence on politics,” Jurskis says. “It’s all about fuel, not climate.”

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

She could be on to something. I assume she knows most planned burns are held off because of dryer hotter conditions caused by global warming.

 

[Bigfootyfan27]

She could be on to something. I assume she knows most planned burns are held off because of dryer hotter conditions caused by global warming.

We are in a global cooling faze at the moment if you follow the latest data...part of the natural climate change cycle....
To say planned back burning has been held off is nothing but just more excuses from the loons who claims the world is going to end...of there was ever any truth behind the the propaganda more pressure would be allied and drastic measures would be taken as they already account for 1/3 of the worlds emissions alone

 

[HairyO]

She could be on to something. I assume she knows most planned burns are held off because of dryer hotter conditions caused by global warming.

Like in East Gippsland where greenies protested and the RFA had to cancel the planned burn?

The story was on the ABC website until the other day when they deleted it.

 

[Kwality]

Dont want to alarm anyone, but: global warming is reality. It’s happening.

It’s not half-happening, it’s not half-real. If we do not curb global Co2 emissions, we will have more catastrophes worldwide.

It’s not alarmist to say it. It’s irrefutable. Support those who’ve been saying it all along. Hold the Murdoch press to account for refusing even now to make the link and inform our population. Hold our politicians to account for selling our future up the river for the mountain of cash that our coal fetches in China. Hold each other to account, its the only reason I’m posting in this stupid place.

Half right sadly, why do you need to put spin on it, people like you who chose to treat the uncommitted without one skerrick of commonsense. YOU ARE A PROBLEM.

The comments on coal are half the story, I'm sure you know why, whether you are simply IN DENIAL or plain ignorant I dont know, so ....

 

[Father Jack]

Like in East Gippsland where greenies protested and the RFA had to cancel the planned burn?

The story was on the ABC website until the other day when they deleted it.

So conveniently you have no proof?

 

[Deliverance]

Im assuming, no, I would bet anything she knows more about the subject than you will ever know.

But plenty less than many others

 

[Kwality]

Snakey’s not a fan of anyone that disagrees with him and accuses anyone or any fact that does so of being politicised. His politicising is, of course, not politicising.

Good to acknowledge the thought of many on this thread who firmly believe if your are not locked on the left, you are locked in on the right. Its transparent nonsense.

 

[Deliverance]

We are in a global cooling faze at the moment if you follow the latest data...part of the natural climate change cycle....
To say planned back burning has been held off is nothing but just more excuses from the loons who claims the world is going to end...of there was ever any truth behind the the propaganda more pressure would be allied and drastic measures would be taken as they already account for 1/3 of the worlds emissions alone

Yep. Cooling phase

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/climate-environment/thermometers-climate-change/

 

[Kwality]

She could be on to something. I assume she knows most planned burns are held off because of dryer hotter conditions caused by global warming.

So who is on the ground on these planned burns, volunteers?
The national parks body in each State* retain a permanent force or is it seasonal, how does that work.

The next inquiry will clarify the reasons why the hazard reduction recommended after Black Saturday fires has not been delivered: I dont buy the universal excuse on offer. No doubt the retired fire commissioners will get the opportunity to explain the failures under their watch, the recommendations they put up to their State* Government.

The failures are a State responsibility though I have no doubt Councils & each State Governments will feverishly indulge in not me politics.

 

[Kwality]

So conveniently you have no proof?

Reckoned I read it:

ABC deletes story about climate protesters halting protection burns prior to devastating bushfires · Caldron Pool

It was reported on social media on Monday that ABC Gippsland deleted a news story they shared in September about members of the local Nowa Nowa community protesting strategic asset protection burns in the region. During the protests, ABC Gippsland reported, “The protesters held up signs...

caldronpool.com

Fortunately I understand Nowa Nowa was saved.

 

[Chief]

Here's Greta with mum and dad. Noice t-shirts.

View attachment 793647

Isn't everyone anti-fascist?

Are you pro-fascism?

 

[Chief]

Like in East Gippsland where greenies protested and the RFA had to cancel the planned burn?

The story was on the ABC website until the other day when they deleted it.

I assume News or Fairfax have the story too?

 

[Bazzar]

Isn't everyone anti-fascist?

Are you pro-fascism?

Hi Chief, happy new year

 

[Bigfootyfan27]

I assume News or Fairfax have the story too?

More a question why the abc deleted it?

 

[Chief]

More a question why the abc deleted it?

I don't know why.

Do News and Fairfax have the story?

If they don't, maybe the story isn't real?

 

[Kwality]

8% & 5% is the specific targeted areas,
Regardless of the size of the State, 5% in Victoria means its the entire states average target area has a reduction burn every 20 years, WA 8% means the entire states average target area has a reduction burn every 12 years.

The percentages becone complex because different forest types have different reccomended turnaround times, like in WA, jarrah forests reccomended from 5-7 years, karri longer at 8-12 years, old growth can be up to 20 years (politics) regrowth can be little as 6 years, and thinning of regrowth every 20-25 years. Forest on urban fringes ever 3-4 years.

A lot of knowlege, resources and go into planned green burns, and unfortunately resources and money are now second to supplying equipment for supression.
No wonder fire cheifs are all demanding more funding, because ultimately they get it.

Should add, in every individual forest green burn, depending on the state, only around 70% is targeted, allowing scattered patches for recolonisation of insects and small fauna etc.

Mate I understand the maths, your use of %s in this context was inappropriate.

My sister & family live on 100 acres with national parks on 3 boundaries & are active in the local fireys - last time I was there (SW WA), the house was being used as a marker by fire bombing aircraft banking to attack fires in the adjacent forest.
My father back burned as a hazard reduction measure when I was a kid.

I have some idea. Are you talking only about State forests?

 

[Kwality]

Isn't everyone anti-fascist?

Are you pro-fascism?

Its never occurred to ME whats fascist means in modern day Australia, know how it applied in WW2? Is it a throw away line like Nazi ( I attended the funeral of a family friend who survived Auschwitz, she had no family, all gone).

 

[Kwality]

Im not sure what you're getting at, and i never questioned the fact you dont have any idea. Ive also lived in the jarah forest in the scarp for a coulpe of years and also have a clue.
Its not my use of percentages, its the WA and Victorian governments use, its their policy percentages. If you have an issue take it up with them.

Fair enough, are you talking generally or just State forests? I've no doubt we agree its under resourced.

 

[HairyO]

I don't know why.

Do News and Fairfax have the story?

If they don't, maybe the story isn't real?

Are you as critical of the random twitter quotes which end up flooding most threads here when they suit your beliefs?

It seems like its a story which has been picked up by a few places.

Do you think its a little bit of fake news?

 

[Chief]

Are you as critical of the random twitter quotes which end up flooding most threads here when they suit your beliefs?

It seems like its a story which has been picked up by a few places.

Do you think its a little bit of fake news?

Does the protest story appear elsewhere? If not, what would be the reason for that?

 

[HairyO]

BTW: I did a google search: abc east gippsland protest backburn

In the list was this:
ABC Gippsland - PLANNED BURN PROTEST Residents ...
https://www.facebook.com › ABCGippsland › posts
Residents have disrupted a planned burn at Nowa Nowa in East Gippsland. ... Mary from Nowa Nowa told ABC Gippsland she hoped she wouldn't be fined. ..... Aaron Bradley Could cattle be used as a solution rather than a back burn?

------------------------
But when I clicked on the link it said "The link you followed may be broken, or the page may have been removed".

So... maybe this conspiracy is true.

Daily Telegraph and Daily Mail UK have stories on it. But I dont count those as news sources.

 

[Fadge]

Does the protest story appear elsewhere? If not, what would be the reason for that?

At the time the story was published, it suited their narrative.

In hindsight, it doesn't.

Clear as day for mine.

 

[Clems Knee]

Interesting that Climate change is viewed solely as the province of the SRP board.

I would have thought it would be better discussed on the Science board, rather than be used as a political football by those with entrenched positions.

 

[Hawk_francais]

Half right sadly, why do you need to put spin on it, people like you who chose to treat the uncommitted without one skerrick of commonsense. YOU ARE A PROBLEM.

The comments on coal are half the story, I'm sure you know why, whether you are simply IN DENIAL or plain ignorant I dont know, so ....

Yep, I’m the problem, I see that now. It’s the people who have been trying to convince their family and friends for 20+ years to get their heads out of the sand and prioritise meeting emission targets outlined by our own environmental research bodies- WE ARE THE PROBLEM.

Whereas liberal party member Greg Hunt (whose award-winning thesis was titled “A tax to make the polluter pay”) who did - as minister for the environment - repeal the carbon tax, would not be considered part of THE PROBLEM?

Because that would be spinning and politicising an environmental issue, which is going to be solved by simply taking reusable bags to the supermarket etc. I wonder what name you give to the planet you’re living on.