Opinion Coach: James Hird

[Bunk Moreland]

I know it was.

Here was your question/statement:

"I doubt we’d be very forgiving if, for example, Jake Carlisle missed training sessions to be off overseas doing something else."

And I ask again, in your example, did Jake Carlisle seek and receive leave from the club for those training sessions?

I don’t think permission has anything to do with it.

FFS he’s the senior coach. He’s not a shelf stacker at Coles who needs to seek permission for leave etc. He makes his own decisions, as he should. Senior members of organisations do their own planning, they don’t answer to others regarding when they can take leave etc.

I don’t think it’s a hanging offence. But with the shape we’re in, circling the wagons and being where the group can see you is, I would think, pretty important.

Team-wise, on field – which is Hird’s remit – is in crisis mode at the moment. It was a stupid move.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Chips book is out this week... any angle to try and bring Hird down. Couldn't see this coming.

 

[Beerfish]

I know it was.

Here was your question/statement:

"I doubt we’d be very forgiving if, for example, Jake Carlisle missed training sessions to be off overseas doing something else."

And I ask again, in your example, did Jake Carlisle seek and receive leave from the club for those training sessions?

It's a bad example regardless. The fact of the matter is he would never have been over there in the first place if the AFL hadn't required "a face" for the scandal. The team/club will not collapse if he misses a couple of training sessions during our bye.

Troll has had some limited success in rustling jimmies but I give it 4 rubber chickens overall.

 

[Jade]

I don’t think permission has anything to do with it.

FFS he’s the senior coach. He’s not a shelf stacker at Coles who needs to seek permission for leave etc.

Absolutely, and completely, inaccurate. Like, really, REALLY inaccurate.

He makes his own decisions, as he should. Senior members of organisations do their own planning, they don’t answer to others regarding when they can take leave etc.

I cannot overstate how completely inaccurate this is. Flat out, stone cold WRONG, my friend.

I don’t think it’s a hanging offence. But with the shape we’re in, circling the wagons and being where the group can see you is, I would think, pretty important.

Team-wise, on field – which is Hird’s remit – is in crisis mode at the moment. It was a stupid move.

I can't tell you whether to think it was stupid or not, all I can do is tell you that Hird pre-arranged leave.

 

[BigJoeD_]

The cynic in me would suggest he has months in the offseason to complete whatever course he wants to complete.
Like September, for example

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Absolutely, and completely, inaccurate. Like, really, REALLY inaccurate.



I cannot overstate how completely inaccurate this is. Flat out, stone cold WRONG, my friend.



I can't tell you whether to think it was stupid or not, all I can do is tell you that Hird pre-arranged leave.

I don’t think anybody is saying he hadn’t pre-arranged it or notified the club in advance. Of course he would have.

 

[bombers21]

Where's Brad Scott coaching from right now?

If people don't think Hird would be in constant contact with his coaches they have no idea

 

[Jade]

I don’t think anybody is saying he hadn’t pre-arranged it or notified the club in advance. Of course he would have.

Which is at odds with your previous statement.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Clarkson missed 6 weeks last year and the Hawks didn't lose a game. Miss 2 training sessions at Essendon and the sky is falling in.

We have become a pathetic, excuse raddled, umpire bashing supporter group. Hang your heads in shame.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Clarkson missed 6 weeks last year and the Hawks didn't lose a game. Miss 2 training sessions at Essendon and the sky is falling in.

We have become a pathetic, excuse raddled, umpire bashing supporter group. Hang your heads in shame.

Missing 6 weeks because of illness is a bit different to heading off to Europe for your own reasons in the middle of the season.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Which is at odds with your previous statement.

WTF is this, parliamentary question time?

I think my point of view on this is pretty clear.

You’re allowed to disagree with it.

 

[Jade]

WTF is this, parliamentary question time?

I think my point of view on this is pretty clear.

You’re allowed to disagree with it.

And your point of view was factually incorrect, as such I corrected it for you.

 

[Lads23]

This course Hird is doing "INSEAD" what has he learnt? How has it been applied to our club this year? We have gone backwards in 2015 and don't look worthy of playing in finals this year.

Credit goes to our supporters who are still backing Hird all the way through Asada/wada/our performances this year, but when is enough is enough??

As Tim Watson has said recently, St kilda are closer to a flag then we are now. I would add GWS, bulldogs and now melbourne to that list.

IMO Hird deserves the heat from the media for his game plan/selection of players he has chosen.

 

[Beerfish]

Clarkson missed 6 weeks last year and the Hawks didn't lose a game. Miss 2 training sessions at Essendon and the sky is falling in.

We have become a pathetic, excuse raddled, umpire bashing supporter group. Hang your heads in shame.

Nothing like blanket statements aimed at nobody in particular. Speak for yourself kelvin.

This course Hird is doing "INSEAD" what has he learnt? How has it been applied to our club this year? We have gone backwards in 2015 and don't look worthy of playing in finals this year.

It's not a coaching course. It's a business course for personal development. It was given to Hird by the AFL as a consolation for being forced to take a 12 month suspension because the AFL needed "a face" for the scandal.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

The cynic in me would suggest he has months in the offseason to complete whatever course he wants to complete.
Like September, for example

Nah man it's totez cool for Hird to repeat his failed units. Wasn't even his fault he was suspended herp derp.

 

[bombers21]

People are quick to jump at shadows. If people actually know what they are talking about, this is not unusual

 

[Smokin]

this is not unusual

A coach going to Europe for a week in season is not unusual?

 

[Jade]

A coach going to Europe for a week in season is not unusual?

Taking a break from the club mid season is not unusual. The more you refine the circumstances (went to Europe, to school) the more 'unusual' it becomes.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

And your point of view was factually incorrect, as such I corrected it for you.

No, you’re arguing some pointless side issue about whether he had “permission” from the club or some irrelevant shite.

Going is Hird’s choice. He’s quite able to say “ we’re in terrible shape at the moment, I’ll use the few days to do something then get back to training with the boys”

Leadership is most important when the chips are down. “I’ve cancelled/cut short my leave boys, we’re gonna get to work on getting out of this funk” is a chance to show very solid leadership. Maybe inspire a few to sit up and take notice.

The more I see of Hird at the moment the more I reckon he’s not thinking particularly straight. Not that I blame him. But he’s still the coach.

 

[Jade]

No, you’re arguing some pointless side issue about whether he had “permission” from the club or some irrelevant shite.

Pointing out that the statement you made was a factual inaccuracy is irrelevant? How curious, I would have thought that politely pointing out one of the core tenets on which a poster is basing his position is actually fundamentally flawed would be entirely relevant.

Here it is again, for clarity sake:

"I don’t think permission has anything to do with it.

FFS he’s the senior coach. He’s not a shelf stacker at Coles who needs to seek permission for leave etc. He makes his own decisions, as he should. Senior members of organisations do their own planning, they don’t answer to others regarding when they can take leave etc."

So, basically, you stated Hird didn't/doesn't need permission for leave, thus making my questioning of your curious example of Carlisle missing training sessions redundant. That is, you thought you were being 'clever' because you know Jake NEEDS permission to do so, but you assumed Hird did not.

But of course, we know that's not true. Hird does indeed need the permission oh his employer to take leave; and further your erroneous belief that more senior figures within an organisation somehow have an EASIER time taking leave revealed that you, and forgive me for saying this, had very little understanding of what you were talking about.

As such, I very politely pointed out the glaring error in your point.

That my friend is not an irrelevance, it is a poster trying to gloss over having made a rather obvious error.

 

[Beerfish]

It's pretty irrelevant to the topic though guys so let's just move on okay? Or take it to PM.

 

[Mercurial89]

What do people want Hird to be doing? He has assistants to work with the players and if all people want him to be doing is "thinking and planning" then guess what, he can do that where ever he is he doesn't need to be shackled to the club.
The nerve of some people to think that because someone works for a club they support they get to decide how that person's time should be spent.

It was pre arranged, the leave didnt have a proviso that said we had to have won a certain amount of games for him to go. He is an employee trying to finish extra study which he wouldn't have even been doing if not forced into it.
The fact people wouldnt care about this if we hadnt of lost a few games shows this for what it is. A non issue that people want to be outraged about. Christ this board is fast becoming unreadable with the amount of negativity around

 

[Jade]

It's pretty irrelevant to the topic though guys so let's just move on okay? Or take it to PM.

Is it? Personally I think its important to correct people making false assumptions and errors when posting about a topic.

The thread is about James Hird the coach, Bunk expressed an opinion that Hird did the 'wrong' thing; but then made some fairly simple errors in his justification of that opinion. Errors subsequently corrected.

Is that not the entire point of the thread/forum/site?

Or do we simply halt the topic/discussion because we're unwilling to tell people to harden up a little bit and admit an error? That way no one ever has to put their hand up and say 'yep, I was wrong, my bad....'.

 

[Jade]

What do people want Hird to be doing? He has assistants to work with the players and if all people want him to be doing is "thinking and planning" then guess what, he can do that where ever he is he doesn't need to be shackled to the club.
The nerve of some people to think that because someone works for a club they support they get to decide how that person's time should be spent.

It was pre arranged, the leave didnt have a proviso that said we had to have won a certain amount of games for him to go. He is an employee trying to finish extra study which he wouldn't have even been doing if not forced into it.
The fact people wouldnt care about this if we hadnt of lost a few games shows this for what it is. A non issue that people want to be outraged about. Christ this board is fast becoming unreadable with the amount of negativity around

 

[Mercurial89]

Is it? Personally I think its important to correct people making false assumptions and errors when posting about a topic.

The thread is about James Hird the coach, Bunk expressed an opinion that Hird did the 'wrong' thing; but then made some fairly simple errors in his justification of that opinion. Errors subsequently corrected.

Is that not the entire point of the thread/forum/site?

Or do we simply halt the topic/discussion because we're unwilling to tell people to harden up a little bit and admit an error? That way no one ever has to put their hand up and say 'yep, I was wrong, my bad....'.

Whilst I totally agree with you and think its relevant getting someone to admit they were wrong on the internet is quite the task. Good luck