List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2022--> PART 2

[Jen2310]

This is a good article. 100% on the need for 3 year contracts. Also clubs pay for players to play elsewhere all the time. You may not always hear about it publically.

Was the trade window: (A) Good, (B) Bold, (C) Bad, (D) Tedious?
Answer: (E) All of the above.
Firstly, we’ll start happy and take (A) The good.
Players moved. Things happened. A lot of players moved and clubs got the chance to fundamentally change their list make up.
Look at Richmond. That is the most stunning injection of talent to a recent premier to expedite change and rebuild on the run. The arrival of Tim Taranto

14

Tim Taranto

Age

26

Ht

188cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.3

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

4.1

5star

D

17.0

4star

K

12.0

5star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

3.0

4star

CL

5.5

5star

D

15.6

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

4.0

5star

CL

2.2

4star

and Jacob Hopper

22

Jacob Hopper

Age

27

Ht

187cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.0

5star

K

9.9

4star

HB

11.1

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.5

5star

CL

4.3

5star

D

17.6

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

8.9

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

4.6

5star

CL

4.0

5star

D

18.6

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.4

5star

turns them back into serious contenders. This was a move that has a Geelong-like defiance of gravity about it.

Look also at Hawthorn. Actually, don’t if you are a sentimental type. But that was the trade period of a club in a hurry. They have been unabashed in going young and doing it as fast as they can. Names mean nothing, reputations even less. Veterans were made to look like speed humps.


Often trade periods are guilty of spending an extraordinary amount of time dwelling on ordinary players. This wasn’t that.

A number one pick from 12 months ago wanted a trade and was traded. A two-time All-Australian ruckman on mega bucks was traded to the premier of 12 months ago. The premier of 12 months ago traded their star young premiership ruckman and forward of 12 months ago.

A Brownlow medallist was put on the table and was quickly joined by his highly priced teammate whose entire trade move escalated quickly from of a wedding conversation last weekend.

Assuming Alastair Clarkson does actually coach North next year, the Hawks will be paying a premiership coach and two players’ wages, one of them a Brownlow medallist, and the other a former vice captain, to play or work for someone else.

But they are far from alone. Nearly every club pays a portion of a former player’s salary at another club. Clubs now understand better than ever that managing your salary cap is as important as your trading and drafting. They don’t look at the money spent paying a chunk of a player’s salary elsewhere as a cost it is money saved in not paying the rest of the big contract.
Which brings us to ....
(B) Bold. Salary dumps.

Some people are still struggling to get their heads around salary dumping but that is primarily because the club that most enthusiastically embraced it, Gold Coast, was the same club asking for more early draft picks only three years ago. Suddenly, they were giving them away.
This is understandable angst but also wrong-headed. The draft picks they were gifted have actually now helped them fix a salary cap bulging with having overspent on mediocre players just to keep them. Using pick seven to fix their cap is far more beneficial than getting in another preciously talented kid they will have to pay a fortune to keep in two years’ time. Fixing the cap is the key.
Just look at Geelong. It was galling to see pick seven go to the premier because the system should dictate they are the last club that should have cap space to afford a salary dump, but that isn’t the Cats’ problem. The problem for the AFL is the club that has yet to play finals has overpaid on players and the club that never misses finals and just won the flag has been able to (relatively) underpay.
The Bowes salary dump was by far the most significant trade of the window. It will reshape how trade periods run in future.
Next (C) Bad.

Players walking out on clubs after two years is hard for fans to cop. But after one year for a number one draft pick is next level.
North have culpability in this for they plainly chose the wrong player a year ago and their club has not exactly been a picture of stability and harmony over the year. But still one year in and you say trade me home and I only want to go to one club?
For the Giants losing Tanner Bruhn was an all-too-familiar story for the expansion clubs but this year it reached the next level when Ollie Henry was homesick for Geelong while living in Melbourne. Geelong!
Seriously. Neil Balme commuted from Melbourne his entire time working in Geelong. Plenty of others do it. The pull of playing with your brother is more than reasonable, but it was, well, an unusual decision.
The AFL should push hard for three-year initial contracts for first- and second-round draftees. The AFLPA won’t like it but they need to look at it.

Finally, (D) Tedious.
The whole thing for many people is an exercise in tedium. That’s ok, tune out. But even for those with an interest in it, could the whole thing have been shorter? Yes. Will it be? No. The AFL has commercialised it and makes a good earn on it, so no. Besides, when you consider the original mega-deal involving nearly half the clubs to get Horne-Francis to Port fell over last Friday, there was still time to resurrect the guts of it into a new deal so time was helpful.
Could other deals have happened sooner? That’s like asking if you can get over-priced pies and watery beer at the footy?
The Bulldogs and Lions’ intransigence on the Dunkley deal was as predictable as the fact it would still ultimately be resolved with minutes to spare. As Dunkley’s manager Liam Pickering drily observed the haggling in the end was over a future fourth-round pick that probably won’t even be used.

Good, bold, bad and tedious: Another AFL trade period done and dusted

Was the AFL trade window: (A) Good, (B) Bold, (C) Bad, (D) Tedious? The real answer? (E) All of the above.

www.theage.com.au

 

[SnakePlisskin]

Wright mentioned in his video Grundy is about the medium to long term. I think end of next year who we target despite wherever we finish will be the result of the Grundy trade. As much as I’d love to target king, geeze the afl you’d think would do everything to avoid him leaving gc. Wouldn’t be surprised if they allow his salary outside the cap. If he leaves, they may as well fold the club. It’s just a nursery for others to pick from

Both of those new clubs are feeders , should never have been established before a Tassie team.

 

[Bussie]

Not bad depth tbh.

In all honesty, you're right. I didn't mind Phillips. He always seemed rushed, if he could slow himself down slightly he'd be a decent footballer, in my opinion anyway. He could really rack up the possessions, not all of them damaging, but he had the ball at least.

Any news on Poulter? I reckon he'd give it a real crack if he was consistently played. Not against rookie listing him.

 

[Anzacday]

Different system these days. The upgraded rookies just get added onto the senior list and don’t need a pick

Did not know that

 

[Babylove]

Lol the SEN review of our period is farcical
Mcstay and Hill not in our best side?
Lol who writes this s**t?

McStay was targeted to play in our best side lacking key forward players.

Hill not on our best side?
We only chased him for 2 years running…purely because we want him to play in our VFL side…

Seriously….how some of these guys have jobs in the media is mind boggling.

Yeah that was Rendell’s review. I reckon we could have had Geelong or Ports’s trade period and he’d still be declaring we lost the trade period.

 

[Roverjg]

Kevin Sheehan’s 2022 NAB AFL Draft Top Prospects – Tall Forwards/Rucks

AFL Talent Ambassador Kevin Sheehan reveals his top tall forward and ruck prospects ahead of the 2022 NAB AFL Draft

www.afl.com.au

Which one of these is based value as late first round pick?

Priority skill set:
- contested marking
-skills
-atheletism size
-

And Aggressiveness/ Physicality. No more players looking like Tarzan but playing like......

 

[magpies42]

And Aggressiveness/ Physicality. No more players looking like Tarzan but playing like......

It’s ok to say Jane…

 

[partypie]

Wait, are you bitching about not having a back up ruck for our back up ruck?

You really are, aren’t you? Far out, how many rucks do you think we need?

Well we only have two as it currently stands.

Looking ahead something more than a 32 year old that pretty much everyone here wanted gone a year ago and a few other options which would either be an exercise in robbing Peter to play Paul (ie. McStay) or are not competent first ruck options would be nice.

Fingers crossed it doesn't come to that and Cameron / Cox stay upright for the full season.

 

[magpies42]

Well we only have two as it currently stands.

Looking ahead something more than a 32 year old that pretty much everyone here wanted gone a year ago and a few other options which would either be an exercise in robbing Peter to play Paul (ie. McStay) or are not competent first ruck options would be nice.

Fingers crossed it doesn't come to that and Cameron / Cox stay upright for the full season.

With limited ability to trade up, Hine will take best available as he always does. This is the right approach. Our list is far from complete, we could do with a high end talent in any part of the ground. You will gaps them through trading and free agency.

 

[partypie]

If we lose both of Cameron and cox for an extended period we have Kreuger mcstay frampton and Begg to choose from. Plus Johnson who has a exceptional leap and has rucked in the vfl. GW has also flagged we will draft another specialist first ruck. We also have Moore who could give a chop out although he’s a Rolls Royce. That’s more than enough ruck options. We can’t afford to carry too many rucks who can only ruck. That’s why Grundy was moved on. Too expensive.

This is starting to give me the shits now going around the same ****ing merry-go-round over and over again.

Just to be clear we can't afford to be pushing Moore into the ruck, McStay is not a full time ruck option even if we could afford to be pulling him out of the CHF spot we specifically grabbed him to fill, and none of the other names you all keep putting forward are anything close to AFL standard rucks.

IIt's like your all so excited at getting rid of Grundy's salary that you think we could throw anyone in the ruck if needs be and it wouldn't matter.

Let's just hope Cameron and Cox do stay upright, because it might end up being a very different reality if they are both missing for any extended period of time.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

This is starting to give me the shits now going around the same ******* merry-go-round over and over again.

Just to be clear we can't afford to be pushing Moore into the ruck, McStay is not a full time ruck option even if we could afford to be pulling him out of the CHF spot we specifically grabbed him to fill, and none of the other names you all keep putting forward are anything close to AFL standard rucks.

IIt's like your all so excited at getting rid of Grundy's salary that you think we could throw anyone in the ruck if needs be and it wouldn't matter.

Let's just hope Cameron and Cox do stay upright, because it might end up being a very different reality if they are both missing for any extended period of time.

Who do you recommend then?

 

[The Phantom]

What about Basirou Where is his best possie?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

In the gym from what I can see.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Why the Cats kept Ratugolea despite his desperation to join Port

Geelong held onto the 24-year-old.

www.sen.com.au

Imagine begging for a player to come down 60kms, but not letting a player move interstate for more opportunity.

 

[PieBeast]

Carmichael needs to shred over summer

I met Josh the night after Prelim and told him we need him to come good cause he has a lot of great attributes, his response in slightly bitchy manner was "yeah they all think I'm too fat to get game a right now" so at least he's fully aware what needs to be done.

 

[PieBeast]

And I'll put mu plumbs on the line and give a brief assessment of our acquisitions

McStay - to the naked eye another undersized forward is not exactly what we need but his mid shift ruck prowess and hard working attitude make him a valuable asset, coin and the contract length a big query.

Hill - speed aside hasn't shown much to date to get all that excited about, he won't be replacing Ginny or Elliott in a hurry so needs to add another string to his bow to find a permanent slot. In racing terms he's a bit untapped so here's hoping.

Mitchell - on the downward spiral but another solid body in the guts for us is exactly what doctor ordered, will be immense in showing our up and comers what's required. Pick of the litter for me by miles.

Frampton - 8 years on AFL lists and hardly anyone heard of him prior to this trade period, apparently not good one on one and we clearly have better intercept marking options. Goes without saying I wish him luck but it's a hail mary selection for mine.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

And I'll put mu plumbs on the line and give a brief assessment of our acquisitions

McStay - to the naked eye another undersized forward is not exactly what we need but his mid shift ruck prowess and hard working attitude make him a valuable asset, coin and the contract length a big query.

Isn't he 197cm and 98 kegs? He looks like a big mofo when he hits a pack

(good luck with your plumbs!)

 

[Mavs13]

For all the people banging McStay, tell me the other options we had? We couldn’t go into next year with the same forward line. We got lucky in a few games, but you can’t rely on the same players again. He will provide a big target and take pressure off Miochek.

 

[Mick F]

For all the people banging McStay, tell me the other options we had? We couldn’t go into next year with the same forward line. We got lucky in a few games, but you can’t rely on the same players again. He will provide a big target and take pressure off Miochek.

It won’t prevent us drafting young talent, as we undertake our rebuild.

I consider his salary to be moot. Two thirds of our team are ‘pensioners and kids’. We can afford it now. It will not prevent upgrading our young blokes, when they progress to being fine footballers (eg Jaicos and Quaynor). When our stars retire we shall have the salary space to recruit FAs that fill any holes.

Our medium term focus is obtaining low draft picks and developing the kids. That they get to play with McStay, Mitchell and our established senior players augers well.

If other teams don’t turn up to play, we should continue to win games. It may well be enough to have the Pies contesting deep into September.

 

[manicpie]

For all the people banging McStay, tell me the other options we had? We couldn’t go into next year with the same forward line. We got lucky in a few games, but you can’t rely on the same players again. He will provide a big target and take pressure off Miochek.

All the people banging Mcstay have no idea how much difference he will make next year

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

All the people banging Mcstay have no idea how much difference he will make next year

I think he’ll suit our game plan as the number one key forward in a mobile forward line more than he suits Brisbane’s where he was a third wheel tall target

 

[BEEG]

McStay will be a good pick up he isn't a 45 goal forward he is in the team to create a contest mark or bring it to ground - they all can't be superstars.

Poulter won't make it just rip the band aid off now he is no good.

Stack has been given every chance by Richmond played forward, back and even midfield, I can't see him doing anything at Collingwood.

Madge for depth reasons only is someone I probably rookie.

Phillips really didn't work at Hawthorn and was never going to be given a real chance under Mitchell as its not the kind of player he wants in that team, 26 an age we lack and it's a free throw at the stumps you know he will run all day worth a rookie chance.

 

[Scud2]

I think the most frustrating part of the media analysis around collingwoods trade period is the assumption we budged on Ollie Henry.

The completely overlooked part is what we got for accepting pick 25 was Hawthorn putting in considerable money for Tom Mitchell’s salary - not us accepting nothing extra for Ollies departure which is implied over and over again.

We gave up the picks we were willing to for Mitchell. Geelong giving up Cooper Stephens enabled us to have lots of year one of Mitchell’s contract to be paid, which helps us get Grunderbergs salary off our books in one year! This then opening up more opportunities next season for free agency.

Can someone please send that to all media outlets.

 

[sideswipe]

You need to give some serious thought to booting him out on the balcony for a night or 2 where he can use his little signs as an umbrella. Might hasten a bit of a recalibration in what is acceptable marital behaviour.

So unsubtle Dino. I expected better from you. Vicky Park needs to go passive aggressive on the Cat bstard. There will surely be a meal or two in VP’s repertoire that he doesn’t like. A few nights on his non-preferred rations and he will work it out. And VP can just go “who, me?” if the clown is dumb enough to actually ask what is going on.

Edit: and if he doesn’t clue in, take it to the next level by inviting ppl around for dinner. Ppl he doesn’t like.

Mental disintegration

On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I think the most frustrating part of the media analysis around collingwoods trade period is the assumption we budged on Ollie Henry.

The completely overlooked part is what we got for accepting pick 25 was Hawthorn putting in considerable money for Tom Mitchell’s salary - not us accepting nothing extra for Ollies departure which is implied over and over again.

We gave up the picks we were willing to for Mitchell. Geelong giving up Cooper Stephens enabled us to have lots of year one of Mitchell’s contract to be paid, which helps us get Grunderbergs salary off our books in one year! This then opening up more opportunities next season for free agency.

Can someone please send that to all media outlets.

Geelong gave up far more than that. They gave away 38 48 55 a future second and a future fourth just to get pick 25…….then they had to add Stephens to get the deal done.

EDIT……….

Stephens theoretically is of equal trade value to henry…. Less accomplished but injuries explain part of that. A similar draft pick and an extra year in the system.

So that means they gave all those picks away for nothing!

Putting it in draft pick terms the total points of all those picks plus Stephen’s based on where he was drafted…..I estimate values henry at……… Pick 2!!!!!!!

( yeah yeah points are a bad way to measure but regardless it’s a yardstick )

 

[Finnishpie]

Henry was not staying for any money, not to mention he’s a midget as key forwards go.

He was staying for more money a month ago. Then we went and got Mcstay instead.