List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2022-->

[Anzacday]

Key dates attached so we know what’s going on when.

• Friday 30 September at 9.00am

• AFL Restricted Free Agency and Unrestricted Free Agency Period commences

Monday 03 October at 9.00am

• AFL Trade Period commences – Players & Selections

Friday 07 October at 5.00pm

• Close of AFL Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency Period.

Monday 10 October

• AFL Draft Nominations open (9am)
• AFL Restricted Free Agency Matching Offer 3 Day Period Ends (5pm)

Wednesday 12 October at 7.30pm

• AFL Trade Period closes – players and selections

Thursday 03 November at 9.00am

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) commences

Wednesday 09 November at 5.00pm

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) closes

Friday 11 November at 9.00am

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) commences

Tuesday 15 November by 5.00pm

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) closes
• AFL Trade Period closes – selections only

Monday 21 November by 3.00pm

• AFL Draft Nominations close

Monday 28 November at 7.10pm

• 2022 AFL Draft Round One (Venue TBC)
• Father/Son, Academy & NGA and Players Bidding opens.

Tuesday 29 November

• AFL Trade Period – selections only (5.45pm to 6.30pm)
• 2022 AFL National Draft Round two until completion (7pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period opens (10pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) commences (10pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period closes (11pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) closes (11pm)

Wednesday 30 November

• AFL Pre-Season Draft (3pm, online)
• AFL Rookie Draft (3.20pm, online)

Thursday 01 December by 4.00pm

• Final AFL Club List Lodgement

 

[Wearmouth]

With Geelong after Bruhn and Grundys massive contract we’re realistically looking at a couple of 2nd round picks, disappointing but maybe we can turn those picks into Brisbane’s 1st round?
We should have a good relationship with GCS and therefore a similar deal too Brodie can be arranged…
Pies 2023 2ndR - Fiorini & 2022 2nd R pick (34 or 31???)
second rounders for each of Grundy and Henry from Dees & cats
gives us something like picks 32, 34 & 36 in 2022 - plenty for Lions 1stR???
Future 2nd thrown in for good measure from Cats and Dees, or at least the Cats and we can walk away with 2 x 2022 1st Rounders?

Henry is a far better prospect than Bruhn overall. We shouldn’t be accepting anything less than a pick between 8-14 for him. Just as GWS will be for Bruhn. We picked him at 17 in his draft. To take a second round pick for him. No thanks. Play hardball with the Cats. I’m sure they enjoyed the fruits of there consternations with the WeeGirls over Kelly’s worth. He can be sent to the PSD if they don’t like it.


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[jonbe54]

Crap

Fact

 

[pome pie]

I

Henry is a far better prospect than Bruhn overall. We shouldn’t be accepting anything less than a pick between 8-14 for him. Just as GWS will be for Bruhn. We picked him at 17 in his draft. To take a second round pick for him. No thanks. Play hardball with the Cats. I’m sure they enjoyed the fruits of there consternations with the WeeGirls over Kelly’s worth. He can be sent to the PSD if they don’t like it.


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I like your thinking… but they don’t have such a pick and I think they’re tied to using the future 2023 1st Rounder.
With their midfield about to qualify for OAP status they may value Bruhn more…
I did suggest 2nd Round 2022 & 2023 most likely our best outcome… or as you suggest… PSD that way and don’t let the door hit you on the way out

 

[Quicky]

What’s going on with Parfitt? This is his sixth AFL season and it’s the first time he’s averaged over 20 possessions. Can he find the ball?

Robroy22 any insight into Parfitt? Would he be a good get?

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

One thing that is extremely frustrating about our list management from the past and now, is how we sell so low.

Treloar- everyone knew we needed him out so we couldn't even get a first rounder, or someone to pay his full contract. Would have been worth a first rounder and no paying him money if we had sold at the right time.

Stephenson- everyone knew we wanted him gone, after a couple of years he still would have been worth a high end first round pick

Then there was Phillips and Witts as well.

Grundy- I mean even this time last year we would have gotten atleast a first and not had to worry about the cap. We decide to wait for his first injury interrupted year of his career and then sell him.

Henry- what would he be worth in 2 more years? Can't help but feel 22yo Henry would be far more valuable.

So both the old list management team and the new one are failing miserably in this area.

In contrast, the Cats got 4 picks inside 33 for Tim Kelly

11

Tim Kelly

Age

30

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.6

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

19.9

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.6

4star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.8

5star

.

I dont want DeGoey to leave now that we are seemingly finals contenders, but if we did lose him at least we would be selling at a relative peak and would get value for him, assuming we match the offer of another team and then trade him out for lots.

 

[Quicky]

In my opinion Grundy’s issues started when teams started playing 2 specialist rucks. His big strength used to be running opponents into the ground with his aerobic capacity.
He can’t do that now and he has come back to the pack. His marking has always been average for a bloke his size but he is looking more cumbersome the last 2 years as well.
The game has changed a lot and the club is banking on the fact Brodie is just going to be a good ruck not a great one anymore. I agree with the club getting rid of him but I can’t fathom some of the guys coming in. Loading up on fringe players is never a good thing, we still have too many. I don’t trust Hill or McStay to be honest. I think the real improvement comes from a Tom Mitchell or Parfitt from Geelong. Fiorini I don’t mind as I think he’s been under utilised at GC.

I think the other elephant in the room for Grundy is the potential for the last touch rule change to come in. If there are less boundary throw ins there are less opportunities for Grundy to ply his trade and earn that hefty contract.

 

[Quicky]

Nah, it's a sunk cost fallacy to retain him now. For the past 3 seasons, when uninjured, Grundy's output has been closer to 500k than a 1 million dollar ruck. Maybe he gets back to his best at Melbourne, but the odds are that our return on investment will only get worse if he stays.

If we trade Grundy and pay 300k of his salary do we actually fix the issue of the sunk cost?

 

[Quicky]

One thing that is extremely frustrating about our list management from the past and now, is how we sell so low.

Treloar- everyone knew we needed him out so we couldn't even get a first rounder, or someone to pay his full contract. Would have been worth a first rounder and no paying him money if we had sold at the right time.

Stephenson- everyone knew we wanted him gone, after a couple of years he still would have been worth a high end first round pick

Then there was Phillips and Witts as well.

Grundy- I mean even this time last year we would have gotten atleast a first and not had to worry about the cap. We decide to wait for his first injury interrupted year of his career and then sell him.

Henry- what would he be worth in 2 more years? Can't help but feel 22yo Henry would be far more valuable.

So both the old list management team and the new one are failing miserably in this area.

In contrast, the Cats got 4 picks inside 33 for Tim Kelly.

I dont want DeGoey to leave now that we are seemingly finals contenders, but if we did lose him at least we would be selling at a relative peak and would get value for him, assuming we match the offer of another team and then trade him out for lots.

With Treloar, Stephenson and Phillips our hands were tied by the salary cap calamity. My biggest frustration was not getting fair market value in return. If that happens again this year though it's something else entirely and I'll be concerned by the decisions being made by the football department.

 

[LuckyLee]

My opinion at this stage:
Fiorini a better fit than Parfitt in terms of clearance provision reliability
Hill a significant improvement on Henry, in terms of tackling pressure and flat-out speed/crumbing ability
McStay a fine fit for us when Grundy leaves - can ruck a little and cover us in defense and up forward
Frampton a solid get to cover for Murphy / release Howe & Moore down back - solid defensive ruck cover & cheap
Not sure we need much more in the middle if Fiorini / Carmichael / Macrae reach their potential in 2023, but if we had to choose between Mitchell & Parish, I'd go for Mitchell as he's more likely to give clean possession and forward momentum (Parish too lightly built and lateral for me!).
Pick up a couple of low first / high seconds for Grundy and Henry and pick up a couple of good'uns in the draft (hopefully a young KPF included) and I'd be pretty damn content.

I hope we swap Henry for Parfitt AND also bring in Fiorini. That pair would really boost our midfield clearances and our mid-20’s age bracket.


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[PieBeast]

If we trade Grundy and pay 300k of his salary do we actually fix the issue of the sunk cost?

There's no IF, the sooner that sinks is the less pointless yours posts will become.

 

[LuckyLee]

Very generous to say Reef is afl standard right now, he was about to get dropped before his shoulder reco.

Yes, Reef is just about the most intriguing player still on our list. Is he going to be a gun, or a bust?

We’ve seen so little and he has become a bit of a forgotten man. Hopefully he goes injury-free next year and shows us what he’s really capable of.


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[Bramax]

Henry is a far better prospect than Bruhn overall. We shouldn’t be accepting anything less than a pick between 8-14 for him. Just as GWS will be for Bruhn. We picked him at 17 in his draft. To take a second round pick for him. No thanks. Play hardball with the Cats. I’m sure they enjoyed the fruits of there consternations with the WeeGirls over Kelly’s worth. He can be sent to the PSD if they don’t like it.

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I’m all in on this.

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

One thing that is extremely frustrating about our list management from the past and now, is how we sell so low.

Treloar- everyone knew we needed him out so we couldn't even get a first rounder, or someone to pay his full contract. Would have been worth a first rounder and no paying him money if we had sold at the right time.

Stephenson- everyone knew we wanted him gone, after a couple of years he still would have been worth a high end first round pick

Then there was Phillips and Witts as well.

Grundy- I mean even this time last year we would have gotten atleast a first and not had to worry about the cap. We decide to wait for his first injury interrupted year of his career and then sell him.

Henry- what would he be worth in 2 more years? Can't help but feel 22yo Henry would be far more valuable.

So both the old list management team and the new one are failing miserably in this area.

In contrast, the Cats got 4 picks inside 33 for Tim Kelly.

I dont want DeGoey to leave now that we are seemingly finals contenders, but if we did lose him at least we would be selling at a relative peak and would get value for him, assuming we match the offer of another team and then trade him out for lots.

The previous admin were scared to make bold moves. Overpaid when bringing people in, didn’t get fair comp when moving out.

I think we will see a lot more aggressive and bold moves.

 

[GCPie]

It all cannot be fixed in 1 year - but I am thinking GW and the team are looking forward and future picks will be handy.
Get the underlying bad contract(s) out - Grundy and build a stable salary cap foundation to build for the future.
Will be interesting watch Trade time this year.
2023 is also the last year of the Treloar payments.

 

[JuniorB]

According to the AFL website the Suns may be willing to offer pick 7 & Jack Bowes

12

Jack Bowes

Age

26

Ht

189cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.3

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

318.1

4star

D

18.0

4star

K

11.8

5star

HB

6.3

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.1

2star

MG

318.1

4star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.4

4star

as part of a salary dump deal.
Bowes has 2 years left on his contract.
He's described as a mid turned defender, another one who can't get into the Suns stacked midfield.
I wonder what sort of deal we could get on Bowes & Fiorini.
Pick 7 would be a nice enticement.

 

[gouki88]

According to the AFL website the Suns may be willing to offer pick 7 & Jack Bowes as part of a salary dump deal.
Bowes has 2 years left on his contract.
He's described as a mid turned defender, another one who can't get into the Suns stacked midfield.
I wonder what sort of deal we could get on Bowes & Fiorini.
Pick 7 would be a nice enticement.

Gold Coast have a boatload of picks, but is their cap really bad enough to be forced out of pick 7?

 

[soreplums]

According to the AFL website the Suns may be willing to offer pick 7 & Jack Bowes as part of a salary dump deal.
Bowes has 2 years left on his contract.
He's described as a mid turned defender, another one who can't get into the Suns stacked midfield.
I wonder what sort of deal we could get on Bowes & Fiorini.
Pick 7 would be a nice enticement.

Let’s get onto pick 7. I’m guessing they want a future pick instead of players.

 

[Quicky]

There's no IF, the sooner that sinks is the less pointless yours posts will become.

While it looks likely, the trade hasn't happened yet so it remains an if. I'm seeking to understand how paying 300k of his salary saves us much when we then need to find an equally good or better player with what remains.

 

[LuckyLee]

If ever anyone needed confirmation of how little we’re going to get in return for offloading Grundy’s bloated contract, look no further than what’s happening at Gold Coast.

They’re apparently going to GIVE AWAY pick 7 as a sweetener to any club willing to take Jack Bowes

12

Jack Bowes

Age

26

Ht

189cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.3

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

318.1

4star

D

18.0

4star

K

11.8

5star

HB

6.3

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.1

2star

MG

318.1

4star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.4

4star

(a former top 10 pick himself) and his back-ended contract off their hands.

I now see us getting no better than a 3rd rounder for Grundy but hopefully also free from any ongoing contribution to his wages.

(On the flip-side, getting Bowes, Fiorini, pick 7 and perhaps more from GC is a tantalising prospect.)



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[JuniorB]

Gold Coast have a boatload of picks, but is their cap really bad enough to be forced out of pick 7?

They've got some big guns to sign next year, plus they'll get a couple of 1st rounders from Adelaide for Rankine.
Adelaide's first pick is 5.
Plus they'll trade some to Brisbane because the Brions need points for 2 F/S players.

 

[Jasper84]

If we trade Grundy and pay 300k of his salary do we actually fix the issue of the
sunk cost?

We do, because it's an acceptance that it was a bad deal that will cost 1.5 million to get out of. But if we don't, then we are continuing to invest 5 million on pure hope that there's a turnaround and somehow we get our money's worth.

Put it this way, if in 2020 we had signed Grundy on that same contract, then immediately realised our mistake and paid him a million to break it right there and then, we would financially be better off right now. If we paid him a million to break it after the first year we would now be better off and so on....

This isn't even taking into account if the contract is backloaded in the last couple of years. Our best move is to pay out as much of 1.5 million tax as soon as possible and move on. The only question seems to be is what monetary value does the club place on draft picks.

 

[LuckyLee]

I hope we’ve been in touch with Griffin Logue

19

Griffin Logue

Age

26

Ht

193cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.0

3star

MG

115.4

2star

D

9.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

5.4

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.0

2star

MG

115.4

2star

D

9.8

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.0

3star

MG

115.4

2star

’s manager since things went sideways at North Melbourne yesterday.

He’d be a valuable pick up for us to strengthen our backline but with flexibility to effectively play forward as well.


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[sr36]

While it looks likely, the trade hasn't happened yet so it remains an if. I'm seeking to understand how paying 300k of his salary saves us much when we then need to find an equally good or better player with what remains.

If it does go down like that, with us paying that much of his salary and not getting much back in trade, I think there are a couple of possible reasons.

1. They might value his contributions significantly below $700,000
2. To set up a culture where players are de-incentivised to ask for top dollar.

 

[AmericanMustard]

This rising generation have been conditioned to believe they can have it all and deserve to.

Mostly they grow out of it but some expect the silver plate service for a McDonald's outlay of effort.

It will continue to happen more and more often.

Sad when you know the potential is all there and they won't do what's necessary.

Okay Murdoch

 

[Everybody Panic]

I hope we’ve been in touch with Griffin Logue’s manager since things went sideways at North Melbourne yesterday.

He’d be a valuable pick up for us to strengthen our backline but with flexibility to effectively play forward as well.


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Too expensive. When we are looking at dumping salary, then competing with North on wages will be impossible. Whilst I think there's the need, Frampton would give that cover for a fair bit less.