List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2023

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I don't know much about cap space, trade capitol etc but Liam Henry is a yes please for mine.
Cap space: some.

Trade capital: Pick 18 (will slide to 23+ after academy/FS bids), Pick 33 (more like 38+ and tied to Carlton), future first, second and third.

Liam Henry very unlikely to come to us.
 
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My prediction for 2024 is we'll land Naughton and Clark from Geelong.

Don't think Naughton comes across this year but as a free agent, he'll land at the Pies. His dad still supports Collingwood quite happily and really, it's a matter of sitting down and signing a deal. The Bulldogs have to lose a forward.
 
Not sure it makes sense for us to be looking for opportunistic recruits. Last year the Pies recruited for need whilst the Cat's followed an opportunistic approach. Whilst I understand that there's many factors that contribute to this year's results, recruiting for need whilst a team is in the premiership window certainly paid dividends for the Pies whereas the Cats ignored their needs and suffered from a lack of depth in area's where they had weaknesses (that were exposed this year through injury).
I'm a lot more positive about the Cats recruiting and think they did recruit for needs. They chose not to top up, because their stars are nearly gone with one already gone. I'm sure they were hoping they'd still be good enough to get them there again, but too many injuries early bit them hard.

They needed talented youth, particularly mids and a marking forward and that's what they got: A pick 7 mid, Bruhn and Ollie. Whether those 3 end up being good enough will be interesting. But I think they nailed it in terms of needs from their recruiting hand.
 

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We replaced it all with first year contracts which are worth $80k (rookies) - $120k with incentives for each senior game (usually $5k).
That's one reason why I think you should churn the bottom of your list every year rather than holding on to guys who are alright like Bianco, Ruscoe, etc for additional depth. There's a salary cap saving as well as the extra opportunity to find a quality player.
 
I'm a lot more positive about the Cats recruiting and think they did recruit for needs. They chose not to top up, because their stars are nearly gone with one already gone. I'm sure they were hoping they'd still be good enough to get them there again, but too many injuries early bit them hard.

They needed talented youth, particularly mids and a marking forward and that's what they got: A pick 7 mid, Bruhn and Ollie. Whether those 3 end up being good enough will be interesting. But I think they nailed it in terms of needs from their recruiting hand.
Agree, they nailed strategic needs, just don't think that when a team is in the premiership window, that the focus should be on strategy. Take the Bowes deal for example, this year the combination of Bowes and Clarke cost the Cats somewhere between $700,000 - $800,000 in salary cap, the return was 18 games between the two, with Bowes returning somewhere less than 16 disposals per game - in a tactical sense, that's a poor return for a team in the window. Compare that to say, the return that we've got our of Mitchell and McStay - cost is a little higher (not that much with the Hawks paying a % of Titch's salary), but a much better short term return.
 
Agree, they nailed strategic needs, just don't think that when a team is in the premiership window, that the focus should be on strategy. Take the Bowes deal for example, this year the combination of Bowes and Clarke cost the Cats somewhere between $700,000 - $800,000 in salary cap, the return was 18 games between the two, with Bowes returning somewhere less than 16 disposals per game - in a tactical sense, that's a poor return for a team in the window. Compare that to say, the return that we've got our of Mitchell and McStay - cost is a little higher (not that much with the Hawks paying a % of Titch's salary), but a much better short term return.
How old are Bowes and Clark?
 
My prediction for 2024 is we'll land Naughton and Clark from Geelong.

Don't think Naughton comes across this year but as a free agent, he'll land at the Pies. His dad still supports Collingwood quite happily and really, it's a matter of sitting down and signing a deal. The Bulldogs have to lose a forward.
I think we're more into Holmes than Clark.
 
Agree, they nailed strategic needs, just don't think that when a team is in the premiership window, that the focus should be on strategy. Take the Bowes deal for example, this year the combination of Bowes and Clarke cost the Cats somewhere between $700,000 - $800,000 in salary cap, the return was 18 games between the two, with Bowes returning somewhere less than 16 disposals per game - in a tactical sense, that's a poor return for a team in the window. Compare that to say, the return that we've got our of Mitchell and McStay - cost is a little higher (not that much with the Hawks paying a % of Titch's salary), but a much better short term return.
It's short term versus long term. They backed their guys to be able to go again without re-enforcement whilst also trying to avoid a Hawthorn style plummet.
 
My prediction for 2024 is we'll land Naughton and Clark from Geelong.

Don't think Naughton comes across this year but as a free agent, he'll land at the Pies. His dad still supports Collingwood quite happily and really, it's a matter of sitting down and signing a deal. The Bulldogs have to lose a forward.
I reckon we will end up with Naughton at some point too. Just a hunch.
 
How old are Bowes and Clark?
My point is that from a tactical sense, age and potential doesn't matter, just return on investment whilst you're in the premiership window. I'm not saying that over the next 5 to 10 years that the Bowes deal won't turn out well in terms of the return the Cats get out of these players, but that doesn't really matter unless they contribute to the Cat's going deep into September during that time.
 
It's short term versus long term. They backed their guys to be able to go again without re-enforcement whilst also trying to avoid a Hawthorn style plummet.
Agree, my point is that long term decisions like that whilst you're in the premiership window might not be wise.
 

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What sort of picks could we get for Macrae, Bianco and Ruscoe if they asked to be traded?


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What sort of picks could we get for Macrae, Bianco and Ruscoe if they asked to be traded?


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Macrae isn't leaving. Fairly confident. Given he's under contract, we'd want a first and only a first for him in the rare instance he does ask for a trade.

Bianco would see us secure a late second, early third rounder given he's a hard worker and has produced at VFL level. He has potential and is young enough to still have that breakout season.

Ruscoe would land at most a third round pick as a sign of continuing relations between clubs. At the moment, Pick 54 from West Coast looks good. That will contract to be in the 40s after bids come through.
 
That's one reason why I think you should churn the bottom of your list every year rather than holding on to guys who are alright like Bianco, Ruscoe, etc for additional depth. There's a salary cap saving as well as the extra opportunity to find a quality player.
Bianco and Ruscoe would be on peanuts and are critical depth. There's now enough noise to suggest they'll leave and given we're not naming either as emergencies, even when Murphy went down in the case of Ruscoe, it's a sign they know they're on the way out.
 
What sort of picks could we get for Macrae, Bianco and Ruscoe if they asked to be traded?


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Macrae isn’t leaving, but the other two prob won’t get too much. 3rd rounders


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Macrae isn't leaving. Fairly confident. Given he's under contract, we'd want a first and only a first for him in the rare instance he does ask for a trade.

Bianco would see us secure a late second, early third rounder given he's a hard worker and has produced at VFL level. He has potential and is young enough to still have that breakout season.

Ruscoe would land at most a third round pick as a sign of continuing relations between clubs. At the moment, Pick 54 from West Coast looks good. That will contract to be in the 40s after bids come through.
Reckon this is optimistic.

Macrae is under contract but hasn't really put together a solid 4 quarter game or any continuity at afl level. If he requested a trade i think a second is the best we could ask for-and probably a late second at best.

Bianco and ruscoe are both out of contract and if request a trade will go for late picks 50+ or slight upgrades.
 
Rumors' of Dylan Shiel possibly leaving essendon. Is he still any good?. Was a gun with GWS
 
Agree, my point is that long term decisions like that whilst you're in the premiership window might not be wise.
I'd do it, but I'm not premiership at all costs. I'm happy when we're winning and are a chance. Eg. Whether or not we win the flag, I think we've had a great year. So I'd be looking to avoid bottoming out, which is the risk of going all in when you're in a window.

But if you are premiership or bust you're probably right.
 
Bianco and Ruscoe would be on peanuts and are critical depth. There's now enough noise to suggest they'll leave and given we're not naming either as emergencies, even when Murphy went down in the case of Ruscoe, it's a sign they know they're on the way out.
5th year players are on a fair bit more than first year players.
 
My point is that from a tactical sense, age and potential doesn't matter, just return on investment whilst you're in the premiership window. I'm not saying that over the next 5 to 10 years that the Bowes deal won't turn out well in terms of the return the Cats get out of these players, but that doesn't really matter unless they contribute to the Cat's going deep into September during that time.
In strategic management ‘the means justifies the end’
 
Seem to recall Pendles has a very close mentoring role with Jack Billings
Paul Connors has already started the Dutch auction process for his client.
Be interesting if we make a play via Pendles. Would be a cheap deal
 
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