List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2023

[Pie eyed]

Mal Michael.

Didn't Michael "fake retire" then go straight to Brisvegas?

 

[manicpie]

Didn't Michael "fake retire" then go straight to Brisvegas?

I think he might’ve

 

[Pie eyed]

I think he might’ve

Pretty sure we were adamant he was a required player.
Can't count him as traded out.
Nick Davis either. he did the dirty on Collingwood.

 

[Doc1763]

Didn't Michael "fake retire" then go straight to Brisvegas?

No, he did that from Brisvegas to Essendope

 

[sr36]

Didn't Michael "fake retire" then go straight to Brisvegas?

No traded for Molloy. He fake retired to try to get from Brissy to Essendon (or changed his mind after retiring) I can't remember if he got there or not

 

[KinderSmock]

Patrick Voss one to consider. Gold Coast's McLaughlin is better.

Snelling was a whipping boy. They're really having a clean out this year. Must be determined to reach the big 7,300 without a finals win.

 

[KinderSmock]

He was giving Taylor a touch up early against GWS. No mean feat

If he unlocks his potential, you're looking at a forward that can't be stopped whilst Hill, Mihocek, Elliott and whoever is in the forward line cause trouble.

 

[cfc19902010]

This is one that keeps being bought up but its not true. McStay was mainly no 1 or 2 KPF at Brissie. Daniher was there for his last 2 seasons only and the Daniher/Hipwood/McStay combo only stepped out in 20 something games.

Dan was exactly what we wanted this year. 2IC to Brody who is our dominant KPF. At Brissie he usually ranked around 4th to 7th in the teams goal scoring table and was around a similar mark this year for us although could have gone higher with more games.

It's unlikely he boosts production score wise much past what its been over 10 seasons but by all means hope. But he has spent plenty of time as 1 or 2 main KPFs at Brisbane in the past. 1 to 1.5 goals per game is an excellent output for him IMHO

Mcstay often played back at Brisbane also so would limit goals per game average

 

[cfc19902010]

He was giving Taylor a touch up early against GWS. No mean feat

His second half against Melbourne in qualifying was very good even after hit from van rooyen
Excellent courage to come back and contribute

 

[Gone Critical]

Mcstay often played back at Brisbane also so would limit goals per game average

True. Which is why i placed the rider that the 1-1.5 goal average applies to the years when he was more established and playing exclusively forward. If you take his whole career the average is 0.9 goals per game.

 

[Gone Critical]

Superb, I like to come up with my own insults for my brother, but this, I must use

I thankyou sideswipe, for the material

A young mind can lie to itself. It can do all kind of things. It can even believe he was wanted and the mother was happy upon beong told it was 6 boys on a row..

 

[cfc19902010]

Mcstays role is to contest , bring the ball to ground and hopefully clunk a few
With our star studded mosquito fleet bringing the ball to ground will be more than handy

 

[Apex36]

Mcstay often played back at Brisbane also so would limit goals per game average

When he played forward he never averaged more than about 1.5 per game so not really relevant given the numbers GC posted.

 

[Bianconeri]

Agree ranking is superficial but i was more responding to the idea Dan spent his time at Brissie with 2 other KPFs as no 3.

You can argue roles but the most difficult and most valuable part of a KPFs contribution is our coaching staff goal kicking. Its the main arbiter seperating the good ones from the rest. Dan is AFL solid but not great. Thats fine. We didnt buy more than that and we got what we wanted.

Our coaching staff don’t value it that way.

Ash Johnson was dropped after kicking 3 goals two weeks in a row.

Henry was dropped last season and Ginnivan this season despite being strong goal kickers.

There’s a non negotiable elements to a forwards game that come in before goals kicked.

This isn’t exclusive to this coaching group either as our 2010 coaching group came to the same conclusion. 4 of our 6 top goal scores in 2009 didn’t feature in the drawn GF and 5 of 6 didn’t feature in the win.

In the end Anthony, Medhurst, Lockyer and Davis were proffered to inferior goal scores in Dawes, Maccaffer, Blair and Goldsack.

Even Josh Fraser was better goal kicker than Leigh Brown.

 

[windchimes]

Our coaching staff don’t value it that way.

Ash Johnson was dropped after kicking 3 goals two weeks in a row.

Henry was dropped last season and Ginnivan this season despite being strong goal kickers.

There’s a non negotiable elements to a forwards game that come in before goals kicked.

This isn’t exclusive to this coaching group either as our 2010 coaching group came to the same conclusion. 4 of our 6 top goal scores in 2009 didn’t feature in the drawn GF and 5 of 6 didn’t feature in the win.

In the end Anthony, Medhurst, Lockyer and Davis were proffered to inferior goal scores in Dawes, Maccaffer, Blair and Goldsack.

Even Josh Fraser was better goal kicker than Leigh Brown.

I think our current coaching crop do value aggressive defensive efforts, pressure, work rate and 1%er contribution higher from their KPF'S than many other coaching panels do, even if selecting that style of battler big man comes at the expensive of highly talented, high scoring but lower work-rate players like Henry or Johnson.

In the sense that we play a 'team based' or 'system based' backline, we take a similar approach to our forwards as a unit and their goal output amongst all of the other elements of a forwards craft such as defensive efforts, etc. You can even see the pattern in the valued traits of KPF's we've recruited under the current regime (your workhorse types: Kreuger and McStay).

I think McStay embodies exactly what Fly's idea of a team-first sort of KPF looks like, and as a unit overall our forward line scored extremely well this year.

 

[Fat Jesus]

Our coaching staff don’t value it that way.

Ash Johnson was dropped after kicking 3 goals two weeks in a row.

Henry was dropped last season and Ginnivan this season despite being strong goal kickers.

There’s a non negotiable elements to a forwards game that come in before goals kicked.

This isn’t exclusive to this coaching group either as our 2010 coaching group came to the same conclusion. 4 of our 6 top goal scores in 2009 didn’t feature in the drawn GF and 5 of 6 didn’t feature in the win.

In the end Anthony, Medhurst, Lockyer and Davis were proffered to inferior goal scores in Dawes, Maccaffer, Blair and Goldsack.

Even Josh Fraser was better goal kicker than Leigh Brown.

Dawes, Macaffer, Blair and Goldsack. Plus Leigh Brown Collingwood premiership players.

Anthony, Medhurst, Lockyer and Davis. Not.

I know you know this. Just sayin

 

[localfootylegend23]

Our coaching staff don’t value it that way.

Ash Johnson was dropped after kicking 3 goals two weeks in a row.

Henry was dropped last season and Ginnivan this season despite being strong goal kickers.

There’s a non negotiable elements to a forwards game that come in before goals kicked.

This isn’t exclusive to this coaching group either as our 2010 coaching group came to the same conclusion. 4 of our 6 top goal scores in 2009 didn’t feature in the drawn GF and 5 of 6 didn’t feature in the win.

In the end Anthony, Medhurst, Lockyer and Davis were proffered to inferior goal scores in Dawes, Maccaffer, Blair and Goldsack.

Even Josh Fraser was better goal kicker than Leigh Brown.

Still makes me sad to this day Medhurst, Lockyer, Fraser and Davis didn't play. and Presti. Damn shame. But you knew Dawesy, Caf, Blairy and Goldy busted their ass all day and played the team role.

Your points are 100% spot on, working your backside off and trapping it in there for repeat entries and stoppages is #1. Henry was soft as butter if he didn't mark it. Ginnivans pressure is sub standard. AJ puts in half efforts after it hits the deck. Even Caleb Poulter (who has turned himself around very very well at the dogs, credit to him) would play 90% of game time and have one tackle. Fly made a big point of it one of his first press conferences. Hopefully AJ can get that tank up and work a bit harder because wow does he have talent.

Even Trav cloke at 105-110kg's would chase his heart out trying to put as much pressure on as possible

 

[The Royal Sampler]

A young mind can lie to itself. It can do all kind of things. It can even believe he was wanted and the mother was happy upon beong told it was 6 boys on a row..

Bloody hell, there are six of you brothers? Lawd help us all…

 

[Kirby]

Bloody hell, there are six of you brothers? Lawd help us all…

You’d like to think that sideswipe is the low water mark

 

[Fruit]

Lot of talk about Dan McStays role. I love his work off the ball. He does a lot of blocking that goes unnoticed. Plays a very selfless role.

 

[JuniorB]

Still makes me sad to this day Medhurst, Lockyer, Fraser and Davis didn't play. and Presti. Damn shame. But you knew Dawesy, Caf, Blairy and Goldy busted their ass all day and played the team role.

Your points are 100% spot on, working your backside off and trapping it in there for repeat entries and stoppages is #1. Henry was soft as butter if he didn't mark it. Ginnivans pressure is sub standard. AJ puts in half efforts after it hits the deck. Even Caleb Poulter (who has turned himself around very very well at the dogs, credit to him) would play 90% of game time and have one tackle. Fly made a big point of it one of his first press conferences. Hopefully AJ can get that tank up and work a bit harder because wow does he have talent.

Even Trav cloke at 105-110kg's would chase his heart out trying to put as much pressure on as possible

This is why we've recruited Lachie Schultz - he is an exact fit for the type of player Fly looks for.
Chase, tackle, harass, pressure, kick goals - Sarge will be very good for us.

 

[pugsville]

Didn't Michael "fake retire" then go straight to Brisvegas?

No that was later the move from Brisbane to Essendon.

 

[Gone Critical]

Our coaching staff don’t value it that way.

Ash Johnson was dropped after kicking 3 goals two weeks in a row.

Henry was dropped last season and Ginnivan this season despite being strong goal kickers.

There’s a non negotiable elements to a forwards game that come in before goals kicked.

This isn’t exclusive to this coaching group either as our 2010 coaching group came to the same conclusion. 4 of our 6 top goal scores in 2009 didn’t feature in the drawn GF and 5 of 6 didn’t feature in the win.

In the end Anthony, Medhurst, Lockyer and Davis were proffered to inferior goal scores in Dawes, Maccaffer, Blair and Goldsack.

Even Josh Fraser was better goal kicker than Leigh Brown.

You have moved the goal posts. Talking about kids in their 1st seasons, players outside the best 22 or veterans at the ends of their career is a different group.

They dont belong in a discussion around the merits of top end KPFs. While other characteristics come into consideration nothing is as important as goal scoring ability for top end KPFs. If you dont have them its a problem but not one that cant be overcome

 

[Bianconeri]

You have moved the goal posts. Talking about kids in their 1st seasons, players outside the best 22 or veterans at the ends of their career is a different group.

They dont belong in a discussion around the merits of top end KPFs. While other characteristics come into consideration nothing is as important as goal scoring ability for top end KPFs. If you dont have them its a problem but not one that cant be overcome

Jack Anthony was dropped in his prime and Ash Johnson isn’t a kid.

But regardless my point was when you have goal kickers not doing the non negotiables well enough they get dropped. Using the start and end of players careers further amplifies my point as the start is usually when the non negotiables haven’t developed and the end is when they slip away.

The top end key forwards kick goals on top of doing the non negotiables.

 

[cliffdrabble]

You have moved the goal posts. Talking about kids in their 1st seasons, players outside the best 22 or veterans at the ends of their career is a different group.
While oThey dont belong in a discussion around the merits of top end KPFs.
ther characteristics come into consideration nothing is as important as goal scoring ability for top end KPFs. If you dont have them its a problem but not one that cant be overcome

Absolutely. The best pressure you can put on the opposition is to kick goals.

If Josh Kennedy hadn't kicked a goal everytime West Coast needed one in 2108, we would have been Premiers. If Jeremy Cameron hadn't kicked a goal everytime GWS needed on in the 2019 PF, we would have played in the 2019 GF. If Jeremy Cameron hadn't kicked a goal every time Geelong needed one in the 2022 QF, we could well have gone back to back this year.

Yes, Dan McStay is adequate, but players like him need to do all the other pressure stuff really well, because they don't hit the scoreboard as well as the really good KFs. Just imagine how powerful we would be with a Curnow, Cameron or Lynch fit and firing.

Posters are still banging on about Ollie Henry. My view is that he was left out of the team because it became obvious to our coach that he was not going to sign a new contract and was going to request a trade to Geelong. I don't think our coach, as was the case with Leigh Mathews, tolerates players who are not committed to team success.

Did our recruiting staff do their homework on Henry pre draft?