List Mgmt. Our Trade/FA, Suburban & Country Town Thread

[manicpie]

The first two are traits that even the worst players can have. Being fast and athletic doesn’t automatically make you a better player. Yes he had good disposal, but he played safe footy while in defence for Melbourne and was just ok going in to the forward 50 while playing forward.

He had the traits but didn’t put it all together until he was at the pies, which is kind of the point I was making. The fact we were able to turn two depth players in Seedsman and Kennedy in to Howe speaks volumes about his value at the time.

Basically, Howe was never regarded as being no good. Even at Melbourne. These are basic but outstanding traits that you should have picked up on. Melbourne was the problem, not Howe. Your really clutching at straws here. The rest is irrelevant but unlike you, I could bring up your past howlers., Ben Brown, Hogan, 2Mp and coniglio are just 4 players that you had as cooked and went on to play many more games. Be nice in your responses. You didn't see Howe becoming a gun at the time we took him because you had pigeon holed him as a forward. This is an opinions based forum and your opinion on howe at the time was uneducated, just like everyone else on here

 

[Jen2310]

More of a case of we could bring in two or maybe even three pieces of the puzzle that we're missing right now for what we'd be outlaying to get Houston.

Realistically we also need someone who will do a job for us for 2-3 years, not 5-6 on big money, as our window will be closing for a bit once the elder statemen all retire and players like Moore, and DeGoey slip into their 30's.

I'm always mindful of our age profile so, while Houston is a good player, he'll probably be wasted on us for the last 2-3 years that we're paying him big money because we'll more than likely be going through a mini rebuild starting in 2026/27

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We really are in win-now mode and have other gaps we need to to fill both short term and towards the back half of that 5-6 year period Houston would theoretically be with us. I'm also mindful that mid-sized outside mid / wing / half back flanker isn't really an area of need for us right now, especially not given that we'll have to throw the kitchen sink at him.

Thats optimistic
I would put Mitchell and Jamie in the top category

 

[DopeMaster]

I don’t think Mitchell is done, the injury may have extended him a little, will be keen to see his preseason.

Yeah I tend to agree he's got some life in him yet.

Means we don't have to run out and pick up a bunch of plodding insiders only to end up like Carlton.

Of those available, I like Perryman due to positional flexibility and the fact he's a FA. Also Peatling cause he covers the ground fast. That they're 25 and 23 years old respectively also doesn't hurt.

Would steer clear of Kennedy as he and Mitchell in the same team doesn't work for me.

 

[Mollythedolly]

My issue with Tomlinson is that he’s always played with elite defenders and never been close to being one himself. That’s not to say we’re expecting a star, but playing with stars has made it much easier for him to play as many games as he has.

He’s a below average player, always has been and that’s being kind. The GWS Tomlinson is the most staggeringly overrated player I believe I’ve ever seen. Wanted to scratch my eyeballs out watching his name proposed every year by our supporters and other teams’. GWS moved on from him and became significantly better defensively, and he’s added very little to Melbourne despite playing with May and Lever the whole time.

At least Dunn played in a crapshoot Melbourne with an awful midfield letting in so many entries for so many years.

I’m not convinced Tomlinson is an upgrade on Frampton. We do need to boost depth but I’d rather someone with scope at least. James Blanck can play, and he’s not getting a game at Hawthorn next year.

Tomlinson played mainly wing for GWS didn’t he?

 

[Scodog10]

The AFL is no different than the professional services world that many of us operate in.

Everyone gets a pay rise to change companies, in this case its changing clubs.

Itsthe intagibles that kepe people and players around, the benefits, the proximity to home, the balance you have in your life vs uprooting and having to 'start again'.

So yes, a Perryman will cost more than he would get at the Giants & Hill, Maynard, Et. Al would all get more than they are currently on/able to get at the Pies to move.

If hostory is an example, players rarely leave the Pies - Daisy is probably the last big name player in their prime that has done so

I agree, but in the services world we don’t have every employee represented by an agent who’s like a vampire sucking the $$$’s from the pocket of their client.

 

[sr36]

The Melbourne version of Howe was a B-C grade forward with a cool party trick that he did once every week or two.
There was nothing to indicate to the average punter that he’d become the player he has, so maybe it’s best to keep an open mind and trust our recruiters/coach a little more.

The cool party trick required him being a fantastic athlete that read the ball fought beautifully. He was always a good chance of developing the not a gun.

 

[Scodog10]

Of course Naicos is better than Daniel. But Daniel is also an AA HBF like Houston and would be a fraction of the cost. It was only last year that Daniel finished 4th in WB's best and fairest.

I'm not going to die in a ditch over Daniel. But I feel he is being chronically underrated and the sort of moneyball acquisition that would make more sense given our draft hand than trying to overpay again for someone like Houston as we did with Schultz.

It seems like you are prepared to die on this hill given you’ve referenced an AA from 8 years ago? IMO, he’s being perfectly rated. There’s a limited market for slow sub 170cm footballers who struggle to win their own ball or defend one on one.

It blows my mind how often people misrepresent moneyball. It’s all about applying a stats based analysis to recruit players to play a specific role. None of what Daniel has done for the past 3 years would suggest he’s moneyball. He’s just low trade cost.

I think I’ve read all I need when you’ve referenced overpaying for Shoota and a back to back AA in Houston who from day dot would be our 2nd best player.

 

[adammania9]

Tomlinson played mainly wing for GWS didn’t he?

He used to get swung around a bit, but mostly because he never found a position to truely call his own.

 

[Mollythedolly]

That's fair and reasonable but do you have any better key defender options because otherwise we're left with Frampton, Eyre and Dean and young has all 3 covered. We don't have picks to get a gun defender. By your logic, we just keep doing what we're doing and that's worse than bringing in a Young or tomlinson. At least give us some options otherwise your just yanking your own chain.

No he doesn’t.

Prefer Peatling but with the others clearing out looks like he stays unless Perryman does an about face.
Connor Stone is a reasonable price that could fill a roll.
Also what is the story with Riccardi. Could use him.alongside Mcstay and he seems keen to hang around GWS but was left out in the finals for Keefe. (A bizarre call imo) Again he could be prised out but depends what Keefe does of he retires or not.

Keefe provides a secondary ruck option, Riccardi doesn’t. Keefe just signed an extension I think.

 

[Scodog10]

Thats optimistic
I would put Mitchell and Jamie in the top category

At the 6 minute mark of this podcast Mitchell specifically states that he’s hoping and planning to play deep into his 30’s.



At a further point he also talks about not missing any footy between his broken leg in 2019 and this year. He’s not a guy that’s coming to the end unless we push him out.

 

[Jen2310]

At the 6 minute mark of this podcast Mitchell specifically states that he’s hoping and planning to play deep into his 30’s.



At a further point he also talks about not missing any footy between his broken leg in 2019 and this year. He’s not a guy that’s coming to the end unless we push him out.

As they say, not many players tend to retire on their own terms. They generally get pushed.
Guess we'll see how he goes next year.

 

[domus]

Wow.
Welcome to BF nickyds35

If that’s the quality of contribution, I hope we hear more of you.

Your conviction which is based on research sounds confident and well founded. Troubling.
I want you to be wrong, but sense you may not be.

Fact is we are shopping for improvement with not many ways to find it. And UFA’s are a scarce avenue.

Perryman (& to a lesser extent Peatling) are over priced, over valued and not first choice options.
But they do improve the squad overall compared to SSP gang we currently have in the locker room.

Would love Trac or Houston type quality, but we’ve maxed our credit cards and have only got spare change in the purse to trade with.
We shall see.

It’s not even the official trade period yet, so hopefully there’s a rabbit or two to be pulled from our hat.

Sorry, but I'll trust the blokes who make a living as recruiters. Port, Hawthorn and Collingwood chased him hard. All of these clubs are contenders next year.

I've also read this endlessly negative stuff about many blokes we have recruited over the years from Leigh Brown to Lyndon Dunn , Roughhead and Greenwood. All of them were fine contributors as were many others despite the naysayers.

Fly says he will make us better. He led us to a prelim ( two points shy of a grand final) a flag and then just missing after an injury fest which saw us play without some key players for months.

Come on board, Harry!

 

[Bramax]

Houston would be a great get but the capital required it’s a bit frightening.
Perryman and Kennedy would give the midfield some solid bodies. If Nobes goes and we get a decent pick that’s a bonus. Parker hopefully will improve that spot next season.
Lord has some size about him and developing but again the capital would seem to be offputting.

100% agree but the trade capital relative to Houston’s age makes it tough.
If Noble goes and we secure a decent pick, maybe Joe Richards and that pick gets it done. Might even be overs in the eyes of the Pies but you need to give to get. Lord is the right size and right age profile.

 

[Bramax]

Like they delisted Martin to give Geelong another free reacharound

And the wet wipes.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Thanks for that. I don’t watch a lot of non-pies games so defer to those that do as far as trades go. Given your analysis I reckon a Bergman type would be a useful pick up.

Bergman is more your Howe replacement. Great marking intercept defender. Doesn’t offer the same run or ball use out of defence that Houston does.

 

[Bevoman]

100% agree but the trade capital relative to Houston’s age makes it tough.
If Noble goes and we secure a decent pick, maybe Joe Richards and that pick gets it done. Might even be overs in the eyes of the Pies but you need to give to get. Lord is the right size and right age profile.

Mate you are dreaming, if you want something good you need to be prepared to give up something good.

 

[Apex36]

Basically, Howe was never regarded as being no good. Even at Melbourne. These are basic but outstanding traits that you should have picked up on. Melbourne was the problem, not Howe. Your really clutching at straws here. The rest is irrelevant but unlike you, I could bring up your past howlers., Ben Brown, Hogan, 2Mp and coniglio are just 4 players that you had as cooked and went on to play many more games. Be nice in your responses.

I never said he was no good, come on man, don’t twist what I’m saying in to something else, and don’t make shit up.
Brown - yes I said he was cooked and he barely got on the park for Melbourne. His first year he missed nearly half a season, his second year he managed 19 games @ 1.5gpg, and the last two years he’s been depth. Not sure how that’s a howler?
Hogan - always said there was no way he was ever coming back to Vic. Can’t ever remember writing him off completely as a player.
2MP - I was a big advocate for bringing him in and was disappointed when we couldn’t afford to because of the state of our cap. Even now I believe he would compliment our forward line well.
Coniglio - not sure if I said he was cooked, but I know I was against trying to trade for him given his excessive contract at GWS and his knee issues.

You didn't see Howe becoming a gun at the time we took him because you had pigeon holed him as a forward. This is an opinions based forum and your opinion on howe at the time was uneducated, just like everyone else on here

Pigeon holed? We literally brought him in on the basis that we were going to play him as a forward! You can google it if you want, it’s there for everyone to see! If we were trading for him intending to play him forward why would I not base my opinion on his career playing forward of the ball? I’m sorry but if you’re going to claim that you somehow projected him becoming the elite defender he’s become, when at the time there was no intention of playing him in that role then you’re either Nostradamus or a liar.

Honestly I don’t even know why you’re getting riled up about this, it’s not like I claimed that Howe was some kind of complete dud, he just flat out wasn’t the brilliant player he’s become while he was at Melbourne.

 

[domus]

- NEW POSTER & URGENT - RE: HARRY PERRYMAN -

Hi guys,

Been reading these forums for 20 years but felt compelled to register an account and give my thoughts account after seeing that we are looking to offer Harry Perryman a godfather offer to come to the pies.

As an avid footy watcher, I have always thought Perryman was an ok if not average player, but definitely a player that has never stood out.
I think many of us have probably had an inflated view of his quality, based on the fact that he has always been a regular in a pretty strong GWS team.

Anyway, considering the reports that we have offered Perryman a godfather circa 7-year $850k (based on media estimates) I felt compelled to do more research on him.

This led me to a feature on the AFL app which lets you view every possession/contest a player has been involved in during a game over the last few years.

For anyone that wants to do this for themselves go onto the AFL app click on the stats tab and then enter a players name in the search box and then click highlights, and each game will pop up to select.

I did this for Perryman and what I found was pretty underwhelming.
After seeing majority of his possessions/involvements in his games over the last few years, it is pretty clear that Perryman is NOT a player we should be targeting, especially at the wages/years quoted.

In summary:

• He is a very slow player (which most of us know), but this is further exacerbated by the fact that he seems to always coast/jog through play, very rarely taking the game on, which really limits his effectiveness as a rebounder.
• Most of his possessions are uncontested / under no pressure, and consist of chips around the back 50 and wings.
• In the rare occasion that he has the ball under pressure or tries to open up play, he seems to always make an error disposing of the ball (which was a suprise as he has always been talked about as a smart/good user).
• He looks to be a relatively average (if not poor) level one-on-one defender and has shown almost zero evidence of being an effective intercept marker.
• Overall, he just seems to be an awkward style footballer, who is a 5/10 in most areas but doesn’t excel at any particular aspect of the game.

While I understand the need to replace Noble, it is pretty clear that Perryman is not the answer. In fact, if that’s what we wanted, then Perryman’s fellow-free agent teammate Isaac Cumming is the answer, who is practically a taller, quicker, stronger, better marking version of Noble - noting that Cumming has only received 4-year deals from SA. Someone like Nick Hind is a cheaper alternative.

Would love someone else to go through the same exercise and see if they come to a different conclusion. I personally struggle to see any evidence/passages of play to suggest he is worth any more than $450-500k p.a.
While I more than most hope Perryman turns out to be a great player for the club (if he does sign), the more I look at this pursuit the more it wreaks of desperation. We have worked so hard to correct the salary cap, only to fail to find any suitable targets, to the point we are now overreaching for a vanilla run-of-the mill player we don’t need. I personally would rather bank the money for someone that can push us closer to another premiership.

Previously, I have had the same sinking feeling when we traded:

• Our future 1st in 2020 for practically peanuts (which cost us a 15-year superstar in Fin Callaghan);
• and our future 1st in 2023 (which ultimately cost us Petracca this year).

Let’s hope this short-sighted move doesn’t cost us LDU/Brayshaw/Rayner in 2025 or Ben King in 2026.

FWIW - I did the same exercise for James Peatling and have a much more positive outlook on his potential. Looks to be a more dynamic version of James Row-bottom/Jack Steele.

So you believe Fly is throwing caution to the wind and doesn't mean a word of what he says when he says we want players who will make us better?

He clearly sees qualities in Perryman which he thinks will add something to our team.

I believe in Fly as he has backed up his words with results from the moment he walked into our club.

 

[manicpie]

Sorry, but I'll trust the blokes who make a living as recruiters. Port, Hawthorn and Collingwood chased him hard. All of these clubs are contenders next year.

I've also read this endlessly negative stuff about many blokes we have recruited over the years from Leigh Brown to Lyndon Dunn , Roughhead and Greenwood. All of them were fine contributors as were many others despite the naysayers.

Fly says he will make us better. He led us to a prelim ( two points shy if a grand final) a flag and then just missing after an injury fest which saw us play without some key players for months.

Come on board, Harry!

 

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Mate you are dreaming, if you want something good you need to be prepared to give up something good.

He’s already said that he wants to leave your club. If he requests a trade to Collingwood, you’ll get Richard’s, a pick and maybe swaps next year.

 

[Apex36]

The cool party trick required him being a fantastic athlete that read the ball fought beautifully. He was always a good chance of developing the not a gun.

After 100 games and 5 years in the system, most players are close to, if not as good as they’ll be. There aren’t many players who develop as much as Howe did after that point, and most of the ones who do, much like him, are the ones who have a positional change to reinvigorate their career.

 

[lyfsux]

People are worried about the $$$ we are paying him. Well you need to pay overs to get players in.
Next year we will have Pendles, Sidebottom, Howe, Cox and probably Elliot retire. That is a saving of over $1 million to lure other players next year.

If those 5 salaries are over 1 million we are really short paying them

I'd say closer to 2.5/3 million

 

[Apex36]

He’s already said that he wants to leave your club. If he requests a trade to Collingwood, you’ll get Richard’s, a pick and maybe swaps next year.

Stop with the tough talk, Houston is contracted and Port are under no obligation to trade him for anything less than their own asking price. There’s a reason why Carlton and Norf are the front runners, and it’s because they have the trade capital to get a deal done, which will likely be significant overs.

 

[partypie]

Thats optimistic
I would put Mitchell and Jamie in the top category

Nit picking really, the point was that group in it's entirety is going to be gone or close to it in the next 2-3 years which is why we're in win-now mode.

 

[anshell]

I don’t see any downside in getting Perryman.He can play midfield and give us more rotations through there,which is something we desperately need,and he can also play half back if need be.He’s just the sort of flexible player who will make us a better team.And he’s a free agent which means we don’t have to give up any picks for him.It’s a no brainer for me.