List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[Cousin of Daicos]

Just compared him to Reef and tbh we've come off better so far. He's 1cm taller than Reef but that's about it. I'd rather just develop Reef and save ourselves the bother.

Reef is a tall mid that tries to play forward at 194cm

Lord is an actual KPF at 197cm

Since we seem to have no interest in letting Reef play as a big mid, then I'd rather Lord

 

[Ugene41]

Since when has the AFL market operated in a bubble? Merrett is signed for the same period as IQ and will use the St Kilda offer as leverage to have Essendon re-structure his deal. The same will happen with IQ because managers are actually good at their job.

You’re also kidding yourself if you think Cameron next year (because we’ll attempt to sign him before the final year of his contract) is not going to be getting offers north of $1m after the season he’s just had. All 4 are in line for big increases given the contract Perryman is about to sign.

You're kidding if you think a player can sign a 5 year contract for X amount and the following year when someone else signs a 5 year contract for a higher amount they can just easily restructure their contract. Please show me where Merrett has been offered a new contract just because of St Kilda's offer? If it was that easy, we should just offer $2m contracts to other club's untouchable players with long term contracts like Naughton, Curnow and therefore force them to restructure their existing contracts higher and stuff up their salary caps.

If they're not happy they can try push for a trade but that just give the club more leverage on the trade table with a contracted player they're willing to keep.

 

[TW Sherrin]

6 x 700k+ for a role player? Fmd.

If it's closer to 900k as being reported by AFL.com it's just lunacy.

 

[unplugged]

I recall seeing a tweet yesterday which makes me understand why we're getting Perryman...

He was born in December.

 

[Fat Jesus]

Just compared him to Reef and tbh we've come off better so far. He's 1cm taller than Reef but that's about it. I'd rather just develop Reef and save ourselves the bother.

Reef is in no way a KPF.

 

[Bramax]

Salary cap space is the greatest commodity in the game so I don’t agree. That pick 10 and Simpson may do nothing whereas Shoota is going to give us 120-150 matches on a contract that matches his list standing.

Ultimately you won’t be able to have your cake and eat it to in the form of Perryman’s signature leading to 5-10 list ranked players demanding increases and then going to market on the likes of LDU or King. Those veteran savings will get chewed up very quickly.

Oddly, you are right and wrong.
If we agree that salary cap space is king, then surely in a year where we have no picks and don’t want to stand still (or go backwards), then the prudent thing to do is spend some dollars to gain someone who will be a very good player within our team.
I posted earlier that Perryman kept Lachie Neale to 1 possession in the last quarter of the semi final that was on the line. If he can play as a mid, a shut down mid or a half back flanker that releases Jaicos onto a wing, then that is the sort of player position flexibility that McRae loves and demands in our squad.
I believe in this instance we got it right to pay what the market demanded to get Perryman in. The fact that other clubs were chasing him shows how high he is rated.

 

[Scodog10]

You're kidding if you think a player can sign a 5 year contract for X amount and the following year when someone else signs a 5 year contract for a higher amount they can just easily restructure their contract.

If they're not happy they can try push for a trade but that just give the club more leverage on the trade table with a contracted player they're willing to keep.

I mean they can and do. The question is primarily on the ability of their manager. If I’m IQ’s management I’m sitting back saying “we’re being stiffed here on our commission” we’ll shop him around to either break that contract and get him a pay day elsewhere or squeeze more out of Collingwood.

 

[gouki88]

6 x 700k+ for a role player? Fmd.

If it's closer to 900k as being reported by AFL.com it's just lunacy.

That kind of money will become quite normal with salary cap increases. I think 'role player' is also a pretty vague term - he is in the prime of his career, capable of playing all over the field, durable, good foot skills on both sides and works hard defensively. Ideal free hit

 

[stormskye]

6 x 700k+ for a role player? Fmd.

If it's closer to 900k as being reported by AFL.com it's just lunacy.

Nowhere has it been reported we are paying 900k.its simply mentioned GWS would only get band 1 if it was. That’s not one in the same.

Another thing on cap:

“By the end of the new pay deal, which runs until the end of 2027, the average AFL player salary will be about $519,000”

New deals now are including the new cap. You can’t backdate and compare them.

I’ll back out interest in perryman, multiple clubs wanted him, GWS upped their offer. No draft pick cost. That’s FA

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

6 x 700k+ for a role player? Fmd.

If it's closer to 900k as being reported by AFL.com it's just lunacy.

Again, I don't understand this line of thinking in 2024

If he's a player we've genuinely identified that we want/need and both Port and GWS have offered him 6 year deals also, then what do you suggest we offer?

I personally don't believe the 900K number. But 700-750? Sure. Maybe even 800 I'd buy.

Is he worth those dollars? We won't really know until next year, but I'm less fussed about money given we're about to have a shit tonne of cap space over the next 2 years as well as the cap itself increasing anyway.

I get far more pissed about draft picks being given up.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Just compared him to Reef and tbh we've come off better so far. He's 1cm taller than Reef but that's about it. I'd rather just develop Reef and save ourselves the bother.

Reef and HDM are our current best options to provide fast rebound out of defence in the absence of Noble now. I would definitely be holding Reef over some of our other fringe players (Bytel/Sullivan/Long/Macrae/AJ/etc.).

 

[Bramax]

Is he actually any good though? I can't imagine that he's shown enough to command real value. Is the only thing that separates him from Reef a few cms?

He would cost overs based on his output to date and you’d be paying on potential and not consistent evidence. He’s below average on almost all AFL metrics.
At 197cms of whatever he is, the glimpses he’s shown are enticing but I agree with you that he’d be a punt if you gave up what Port are likely to ask for him.

 

[Ugene41]

I mean they can and do. The question is primarily on the ability of their manager. If I’m IQ’s management I’m sitting back saying “we’re being stiffed here on our commission” we’ll shop him around to either break that contract and get him a pay day elsewhere or squeeze more out of Collingwood.

I edited my original post to add that if you think it's seriously that easy to force a club to restructure an existing long term contract higher just because another club offers more then we should just offer $2m p.a. contracts to Curnow and Carlton will be forced to increase his contract and stuff up their salary cap.

In reality, managers really only have leverage when a key player is coming out of contract. It's why contract lengths always try tie to finishing up around FA eligible years.

It's quite easy to say to IQ's management, no we are not trading you because you're contracted for another 4 years. Unless someone offers us 2x top 10 picks.

 

[stormskye]

Reef and HDM are our current best options to provide fast rebound out of defence in the absence of Noble now. I would definitely be holding Reef over some of our other fringe players (Bytel/Sullivan/Long/Macrae/AJ/etc.).

My gut feel is we’ve told reef he’s probably only getting a 1 year deal, and he’s free to look elsewhere in the interim. No reasoning why, just gut feel we give him 1 more if he’s got no suitors.

 

[cfc19902010]

Cooney the clown got a st kilda petracca scenario going on trade radio

 

[Scodog10]

Oddly, you are right and wrong.
If we agree that salary cap space is king, then surely in a year where we have no picks and don’t want to stand still (or go backwards), then the prudent thing to do is spend some dollars to gain someone who will be a very good player within our team.
I posted earlier that Perryman kept Lachie Neale to 1 possession in the last quarter of the semi final that was on the line. If he can play as a mid, a shut down mid or a half back flanker that releases Jaicos onto a wing, then that is the sort of player position flexibility that McRae loves and demands in our squad.
I believe in this instance we got it right to pay what the market demanded to get Perryman in. The fact that other clubs were chasing him shows how high he is rated.

I think you’re overrating Perryman who’s never been near that level at GWS. That’s the key context because paying an 11-20 list fit top 5 money has ramifications.

If we go all the way back to my initial post in support of Cornes it’s because of his assessment that it has unforeseen impacts on your pay structure. I haven’t had any reason to challenge that it’s market value and the overtly positive assessment on what it’s going to mean for our pay structure (on here at least) moving forward doesn’t wash with me.

 

[Pistol Night]

Again, I don't understand this line of thinking in 2024

If he's a player we've genuinely identified that we want/need and both Port and GWS have offered him 6 year deals also, then what do you suggest we offer?

I personally don't believe the 900K number. But 700-750? Sure. Maybe even 800 I'd buy.

Is he worth those dollars? We won't really know until next year, but I'm less fussed about money given we're about to have a shit tonne of cap space over the next 2 years as well as the cap itself increasing anyway.

I get far more pissed about draft picks being given up.

I'm not sure what the alternative is? Recruit a heap of spuds like Cumberland, Hobbs, Owies etc on 300-400k a year? Cap will be in great shape but we'll be a shithouse team

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

He would cost overs based on his output to date and you’d be paying on potential and not consistent evidence. He’s below average on almost all AFL metrics.
At 197cms of whatever he is, the glimpses he’s shown are enticing but I agree with you that he’d be a punt if you gave up what Port are likely to ask for him.

Oh don't get me wrong, if Port start playing hardball on a kid they haven't deemed good enough to play ahead of Dixon, Marshall and Georgiades despite Dixon basically needing a walking frame to get on the park then they can get stuffed and I'd rather we didn't bother

 

[Pistol Night]

Cooney the clown got a st kilda petracca scenario going on trade radio

Id like to know if Cooney is drinking on the job at trade radio or is he still pissed from the night before

 

[The Royal Sampler]

This is a really good point and you only have look at the $$ we paid for Dan McStay to understand how this works.
Most of us on here would agree that Dan is a bargain now when looking at the cap increasing and what he’s on for the remainder of his contract.

And this is the reality of long term contracts. Yes, it’s good money when you start, but by the end it’s often reasonable, and there’s a reason player managers prefer to get their good players on rolling two-year deals and have them come out of contract in time for FA.

It is understood in the industry that if you’re a good player coming out of contract coinciding with UFA, you’ll get paid well. It doesn’t mean that every player at every club can suddenly expect more money, because the club allocated resources to a FA acquisition.

 

[manicpie]

I'm not sure what the alternative is? Recruit a heap of spuds like Cumberland, Hobbs, Owies etc on 300-400k a year? Cap will be in great shape but we'll be a shithouse team

You take back the Cumberland and Owies propaganda. Those two psychos are just what we need for next year's caosball

 

[gouki88]

Id like to know if Cooney is drinking on the job at trade radio or is he still pissed from the night before

With Robbo gone, someone has to take the mantle of perpetually pissed clown

 

[stormskye]

You take back the Cumberland and Owies propaganda. Those two psychos are just what we need for next year's caosball

Where’s my boy membrey

 

[Bramax]

And this is the reality of long term contracts. Yes, it’s good money when you start, but by the end it’s often reasonable, and there’s a reason player managers prefer to get their good players on rolling two-year deals and have them come out of contract in time for FA.

It is understood in the industry that if you’re a good player coming out of contract coinciding with UFA, you’ll get paid well. It doesn’t mean that every player at every club can suddenly expect more money, because the club allocated resources to a FA acquisition.

Ask Alistair Lynch if he still thinks his 10yr, million dollar contract stacks up.
He ended up being the lowest paid player on the Lions list for the last few years of his contract.

 

[Scodog10]

I edited my original post to add that if you think it's seriously that easy to force a club to restructure an existing long term contract higher just because another club offers more then we should just offer $2m p.a. contracts to Curnow and Carlton will be forced to increase his contract and stuff up their salary cap.

In reality, managers really only have leverage when a key player is coming out of contract. It's why contract lengths always try tie to finishing up around FA eligible years.

It's quite easy to say to IQ's management, no we are not trading you because you're contracted for another 4 years. Unless someone offers us 2x top 10 picks.

We should be offering that contract to Curnow if we can afford it…

The key difference between the two scenarios though is that Carlton haven’t gone and just recruited an 11-20 list fit at top 5 cost and Curnow doesn’t sit in the 5-10 bracket. A better example would be offering Hewett $900-1m if they recruited Perryman…

It’s also easy to say that stuff to IQ, but if you take that path do you think his management is pushing a player to us any time soon?