List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[sideswipe]

An AFL club doctor told me that at the time we recruited Wells it was pretty well known in AFL circles that his body was finished

History re-write. He came to us on the back of a 19 game season. His bad injury with us was an impact hit.


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[Ugene41]

Rubbish - this is absurd delusion.
Apart from Geel who have the advantage of offering lifestyle, name me 3 Clubs who’ve continually excelled in attracting elite FA, at a low cost.

I never said anything about attracting FAs at a low cost. I'm saying most of the recent premiers have been able to attract genuine elite stars in their prime either as FA or via trading for them if they were RFA. Geelong obviously got Dangerfield/Cameron, Melbourne got Steven May, Richmond got Tom Lynch. Other examples include Brisbane trading in Neale and Dunkley, Sydney getting Franklin

Give me one example in the last 20 years when the Pies have managed to successfully trade in/acquire via FA a big name star in their prime at that sort of calibre? We've been trying to acquire that big name star forward since making plays for Jonathan Brown/Nick Riewoldt and instead all we've ended up with are the Jesse Whites, Quinton Lynches and Dan McStays.

Despite being one of the biggest club and successful clubs this century, the fact is we've always had to rely on the draft to get that elite talent level in (the elite talent actually required to challenge for premierships). Trading/FA has only been good for us in terms of topping up for role players so to rely on that as the key focus in a list build is incredibly foolish. West Coast is probably the other big successful club that's similar to us in having to rely on the draft for elite talent (with the exception of Josh Kennedy who they acquired by trading away their elite drafted star in Judd anyway).

 

[stormskye]

I never said anything about attracting FAs at a low cost. I'm saying most of the recent premiers have been able to attract genuine elite stars in their prime either as FA or via trading for them if they were RFA. Geelong obviously got Dangerfield/Cameron, Melbourne got Steven May, Richmond got Tom Lynch. Other examples include Brisbane trading in Neale and Dunkley, Sydney getting Franklin

Give me one example in the last 20 years when the Pies have managed to successfully trade in/acquire via FA a big name star in their prime? We've been trying to acquire that big name star forward since making plays for Jonathan Brown/Nick Riewoldt and instead all we've ended up with are the Jesse Whites, Quinton Lynches and Dan McStays.

Despite being one of the biggest club and successful clubs this century, the fact is we've always had to rely on the draft to get that elite talent level in (the elite talent actually required to challenge for premierships). Trading/FA has only been good for us in terms of topping up for role players so to rely on that as the key focus in a list build is incredibly foolish. West Coast is probably the other big successful club that's similar to us in having to rely on the draft for elite talent (with the exception of Josh Kennedy who they acquired by trading away their elite drafted star in Judd anyway).

We traded in the norm smith medalist who won us a flag very cheaply eeyore

 

[satanshoof101]

Sorry Jen.
Boring and outdated saying.

Not what good clubs do anymore.

This isn’t 2015.

Let it go, you need to do both. I am sure if we had a first round pick this year and didn't use it in the trade we would be stoked with a pick in the draft between 10-14.

You cannot honestly think the Bytels, Sullivans of the world are the future of the game? The Geelong model worked really well, but when they don't win the flag this year they will be worst of next year. I understand the draft won't fix that immediately but long term you need both drafting and draft capital as well as trading.

We had our time in the sun, we need kids and IMO SSP and mature aged rookie drafting is not the way back to the top. Geelong fell out of the 8 last year after being reigning premiers they picked up Connor O'Sullivan who I am sure we would be stoked with. Geelong had the chance to pick up Nate Caddy as well who again we would all be stoked with.

 

[Fruit]

I never said anything about attracting FAs at a low cost. I'm saying most of the recent premiers have been able to attract genuine elite stars in their prime either as FA or via trading for them if they were RFA. Geelong obviously got Dangerfield/Cameron, Melbourne got Steven May, Richmond got Tom Lynch. Other examples include Brisbane trading in Neale and Dunkley, Sydney getting Franklin

Give me one example in the last 20 years when the Pies have managed to successfully trade in/acquire via FA a big name star in their prime at that sort of calibre? We've been trying to acquire that big name star forward since making plays for Jonathan Brown/Nick Riewoldt and instead all we've ended up with are the Jesse Whites, Quinton Lynches and Dan McStays.

Despite being one of the biggest club and successful clubs this century, the fact is we've always had to rely on the draft to get that elite talent level in (the elite talent actually required to challenge for premierships). Trading/FA has only been good for us in terms of topping up for role players so to rely on that as the key focus in a list build is incredibly foolish. West Coast is probably the other big successful club that's similar to us in having to rely on the draft for elite talent (with the exception of Josh Kennedy who they acquired by trading away their elite drafted star in Judd anyway).

Darren Jolly

 

[Ugene41]

We traded in the norm smith medalist who won us a flag very cheaply eeyore

I agree. That's where we've been able to get the most value, trading in players like Hill, Crisp, Howe, Cameron cheaply before they became established and in their prime. None of them cost first round picks which should be retained to try draft in more elite talent or traded only for genuinely elite talent.

 

[jmac70]

Darren Jolly

And Luke Ball

 

[No SPIN]

Couldn't predict Freeman's injury

There was an alert on Scharenberg

Red flag on Wells

Serendipity- Selwood was also an alert but became a champion.

 

[Ugene41]

Darren Jolly

He was absolutely a good trade and what we needed to win the premiership but he was hardly a star and was out of our side a few years later. He's an example of topping up with key role players rather than bringing in the elite core needed to build a list around.

Those people suggesting we should just bypass the draft and focus on trading in mature players have yet to show how we bring in that elite core for the future. Unless we are thinking just having Naicos is enough.

 

[ThePhantom777]

Josh Battle

26

Josh Battle

Age

26

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

Cameron Zurhaar

44

Cameron Zurhaar

Age

26

Ht

190cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.2

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

4.6

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.9

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

9.7

2star

K

5.9

2star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

10.2

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.8

4star

Isaac Cumming

13

Isaac Cumming

Age

26

Ht

188cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.2

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.3

4star

MG

158.0

2star

D

9.5

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.5

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.5

3star

MG

158.0

3star

D

10.6

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.6

4star

Who else?

 

[No SPIN]

I never said anything about attracting FAs at a low cost. I'm saying most of the recent premiers have been able to attract genuine elite stars in their prime either as FA or via trading for them if they were RFA. Geelong obviously got Dangerfield/Cameron, Melbourne got Steven May, Richmond got Tom Lynch. Other examples include Brisbane trading in Neale and Dunkley, Sydney getting Franklin

Give me one example in the last 20 years when the Pies have managed to successfully trade in/acquire via FA a big name star in their prime at that sort of calibre? We've been trying to acquire that big name star forward since making plays for Jonathan Brown/Nick Riewoldt and instead all we've ended up with are the Jesse Whites, Quinton Lynches and Dan McStays.

Despite being one of the biggest club and successful clubs this century, the fact is we've always had to rely on the draft to get that elite talent level in (the elite talent actually required to challenge for premierships). Trading/FA has only been good for us in terms of topping up for role players so to rely on that as the key focus in a list build is incredibly foolish. West Coast is probably the other big successful club that's similar to us in having to rely on the draft for elite talent (with the exception of Josh Kennedy who they acquired by trading away their elite drafted star in Judd anyway).

A quote from your post.

“Our trades for "elite" players that we overpay for like Treloar, Beams, Schultz”

Hence my request for you to indicate clubs who consistently attracted elite FA’s at low cost.
As to the above post how many of the club listed were continually contending ( like we have for 10years) and still had the draft capital to land the player?
Only Geel.
Clearly the others had been bottom dwellers while we were contending.
But my point remains - Apart from Geel with its lifestyle advantages, no Club has been a regular recruiter of elite FA’s.
Therefore to suggest we are doing badly in that regard is incorrect IMO.
We are as good or as bad as most other clubs.

 

[manicpie]

Josh Battle
Cameron Zurhaar
Isaac Cumming

Who else?

If you google OOC players for every club, you'll see who might be available, there's heaps of them. I'm a big fan of Cumming

 

[BEEG]

Any players people see could be traded or delisted at the end of this year

Probably every player we drafted 2-4 years ago.

 

[Mollythedolly]

An AFL club doctor told me that at the time we recruited Wells it was pretty well known in AFL circles that his body was finished

It was a knee injury in a tackle that brought him undone. Not sure any medical professional could have foreseen that.

 

[Roverjg]

An AFL club doctor told me that at the time we recruited Wells it was pretty well known in AFL circles that his body was finished

It was. Hence why NM only offered 1 year at substantially less $$$. We offered substantially more $$$ and 3 years on a hail mary. Unfortunately it didn't work but we we warned.

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[Ugene41]

Trade cost was alluded to in your post, implying we over paid for the players you listed. Hence my request for you to indicate clubs who consistently attracted elite FA’s at low cost.
As to the above post how many of the club listed were continually contending ( like we have for 10years) and still had the draft capital to land the player?
Only Geel.
Clearly the others had been bottom dwellers while we were contending.
But my point remains - Apart from Geel with its lifestyle advantages, no Club has been a regular recruiter of elite FA’s.
Therefore to suggest we are doing badly in that regard is incorrect.
We are as good or as bad as most other clubs.

What does trade cost have to do with acquiring FAs that don't require a trade???

I literally listed a bunch of recent premiers. How are they bottom dwellers? Richmond got Tom Lynch after winning a premiership. Melbourne got May after a prelim year. Sydney got Franklin after a GF and have been generally contending same period as us.

 

[Roverjg]

History re-write. He came to us on the back of a 19 game season. His bad injury with us was an impact hit.


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Not quite correct. He couldn't get through a game on 3 occasions but would get up, but on the 4th time he was out for 3 weeks. NM were concerned that he would not get through the next season without missing a block of games. His injury with us was an impact injury so completely different to what NM were concerned about so we would never know how he would have gone

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[NMBB]

It was a knee injury in a tackle that brought him undone. Not sure any medical professional could have foreseen that.

Pretty sure he had an injury history at North (Scharenberg had foot issues but got done by his knee(s)

 

[No SPIN]

What does trade cost have to do with acquiring FAs that don't require a trade???

I literally listed a bunch of recent premiers. How are they bottom dwellers? Richmond got Tom Lynch after winning a premiership. Melbourne got May after a prelim year. Sydney got Franklin after a GF and have been generally contending same period as us.

You were lamenting we overpay for them.
Give me a team struggling for years, and I’ll give you a team with the salary cap space to attract a FA.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Pretty sure he had an injury history at North (Scharenberg had foot issues but got done by his knee(s)

Played nearly every game the year before we got him so his recent history suggested otherwise.

 

[NMBB]

Played nearly every game the year before we got him so his recent history suggested otherwise.

Ok - anyway it's a shame we didn't get more games from DW - he was a silky, skilled player

 

[ThePhantom777]

If you google OOC players for every club, you'll see who might be available, there's heaps of them. I'm a big fan of Cumming

I did these were the 3 who haven't already re-signed who I thought would be good. Right age bracket 25-26. Talent. Fills need. Immediate improvement.

Battle to replace Murphy, Cumming for HBF, Zurhaar big bodied medium forward with mid potential.

 

[stormskye]

we should be all over zurhaar. Cupboards bare at that age group that’s gettable without currency

 

[Harry O]

I ask every poster who bags Hine to offer me 5 recruiters with a better record at producing competitive lists that regularly contend.
I get crickets.
Now it’s your turn.

The fact he said he would have taken Ryan with our first pick if Allan didn’t slide tells me the guy is well and truly past his used by date
There are lots of better options - even Essendon finally cut the cord with Dodoro.
Our club has been asleep at the wheel since the flag. Time for some big decisions

 

[manicpie]

we should be all over zurhaar. Cupboards bare at that age group that’s gettable without currency

I read somewhere recently that we aren't in the running, I hope it's not true