List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[Go Woods]

I’ve made the point several times that his record of keeping us contending makes these criticisms hollow.
As I’ve asked others - give me 5 recruiters who’ve done a better job at keeping their clubs contending.

Haven't said Hine has done an inadequate job, he just doesn't target KP young players.

 

[NMBB]

Haven't said Hine has done an inadequate job, he just doesn't target KP young players.

Do you think Hine does his own thing or "targets" players in conjunction with the coach(s)' requirements?

 

[Ugene41]

No - you said we over pay.
I asked you tell us which Clubs regularly recruit elite FA’s at low cost.
You couldn’t do it.
You then diverted the debate.
Sorry I don’t have the energy to go around in circles.

You really have NFI. Can't even tell the difference between a trade and free agency. And can't name one example to back up any of your points whilst I've given multiple in every post.

 

[manicpie]

Do you think Hine does his own thing or "targets" players in conjunction with the coach(s)' requirements?

I'd say hine and his team do their own thing but I also think the coach would have a little input at times

 

[NMBB]

I'd say hine and his team do their own thing but I also think the coach would have a little input at times

I reckon they'd work together pretty closely - don't think Hine would say to coaches after draft night "hey, look who I've got for you"!

 

[Bianconeri]

Do you think Hine does his own thing or "targets" players in conjunction with the coach(s)' requirements?

His worked under three different coaches and has had vastly different recruiting styles each so I’d say the latter.

 

[manicpie]

I reckon they'd work together pretty closely - don't think Hine would say to coaches after draft night "hey, look who I've got for you"!

Yeah, absolutely. a lot of trust is put into the recruiting team though. There would have to be on going communication. I was really meaning talent identification, Hine and Co would be doing all the spotting.

 

[stormskye]

I think it’s way too simplistic to say “hine doesn’t target KPP”. You’d have to look at our draft picks and show what KPP we’ve passed on that are playing that we could have picked. Morris is potentially a recent one who looks good. Yes larkey and Lewis are late picks but they aren’t comparable as they are absolute steals.

I’m on the fence, we’ve been quite successful the past 15 years

 

[NMBB]

Yeah, absolutely. a lot of trust is put into the recruiting team though. There would have to be on going communication. I was really meaning talent identification, Hine and Co would be doing all the spotting.

Agree 100% re who's spotting talent

 

[Jen2310]

There was talk we were interested in both Reid and Morris for our 2nd pick, but they never reached us. Yeah we could have picked one of them with our 1st, but Dekka does go with best available on the top of his list. Whether thats right or wrongly.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

We cannot afford not to be contending every year - that would be doing Nick Daicos a disservice and wasting his talents.

We are leaning towards the Geelong pathway except we can't land the big free agents like they did with Dangerfield and Cameron. Both elite.

I'm struggling to see who we can recruit to fill those voids.

Sheezel, Reid, Gulden, would be a pipe dream but it is the calibre partner in crime that Nick deserves.

As for the forward well there isn't another Jezza. JUH might be the closest imo.

Whilst not responding to me, I get the point.

What’s interesting is that you don’t need a top 5 player.

Look for a 10-20 player instead that works for our method.

Top picks are prohibitive and good teams that compete year on year trade for the 10-20 range.

 

[ThePhantom777]

Haven't said Hine has done an inadequate job, he just doesn't target KP young players.

Yep unless they fall in our lap as Father Son Cloke and Moore. Last I remember is Reid and Brown from the 2010 premiership.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

Let it go, you need to do both. I am sure if we had a first round pick this year and didn't use it in the trade we would be stoked with a pick in the draft between 10-14.

You cannot honestly think the Bytels, Sullivans of the world are the future of the game? The Geelong model worked really well, but when they don't win the flag this year they will be worst of next year. I understand the draft won't fix that immediately but long term you need both drafting and draft capital as well as trading.

We had our time in the sun, we need kids and IMO SSP and mature aged rookie drafting is not the way back to the top. Geelong fell out of the 8 last year after being reigning premiers they picked up Connor O'Sullivan who I am sure we would be stoked with. Geelong had the chance to pick up Nate Caddy as well who again we would all be stoked with.

Like the idea.
But you’re just back in the early 2010’s.

I get that SSP aren’t going to win the day. But I also don’t believe that picks beyond 20 (yes 20) are value.
Taking a pick post 20 is a 2-3 year journey. Which more often ends up with starting again.


I’m far more in the vain of , take every 24+ FA you can get that suits your style.
Take minimal 18 year olds (they are mostly useless in top 8 teams).
Instead use the picks on SSP.

What we are doing is thumbs up for replacing talent and staying at the top,

 

[Pendles!]

There was talk we were interested in both Reid and Morris for our 2nd pick, but they never reached us. Yeah we could have picked one of them with our 1st, but Dekka does go with best available on the top of his list. Whether thats right or wrongly.

He says it every year. Best available at the draft and then trade for need.

He has the list that he and the rest of the team make up. On draft night, he crosses players off as they get read out and then takes the best available at our pick. The two he has reached for due to need have been Mclarty and McMahon, both kpp.

 

[cakewalk06]

Splashing big money on free agents is not as simple as it sounds.
We have a fairly deep list and a fairly flat salary cap set-up where we have few players on huge money and we probably have some on unders compared to what they could get elsewhere.
Paying current B graders such as Battle and Zurhaar a-grade money could easily IMO lead to disharmony especially if they don’t shine.
Also, we could end up hamstrung again with salary cap room. We are still paying for Treloar and Grundy.
The only free agents we should break the bank for are bona fide a-graders. Lynch, Cameron types. And there aren’t any like that this year.
Injuries are the problem this year, not so much the list. Next year of course our oldies are greyer again so we need to look a little longer term IMO.

 

[Harry O]

I think it’s way too simplistic to say “hine doesn’t target KPP”. You’d have to look at our draft picks and show what KPP we’ve passed on that are playing that we could have picked. Morris is potentially a recent one who looks good. Yes larkey and Lewis are late picks but they aren’t comparable as they are absolute steals.

I’m on the fence, we’ve been quite successful the past 15 years

But even when does select them eg McMahon McLarty with relative early picks, his talent id on what makes a good tall seems inadequate

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

But even when does select them eg McMahon McLarty with relative early picks, his talent id on what makes a good tall seems inadequate

I wouldn't call McMahon and McLarty early picks in any way.

 

[JLC]

Furthermore, it is not as if Hine has gone rogue. The match committee outline the types of roles we are after and Hine tries to find the players. The problem with winning in 2010 we have tried to find a Leigh Brown that could play multiple roles. We ruined Dawes. He was a good 2nd forward. We tried to have him play chop out in the ruck and when that didn't work we moved him on. Tried it with the Big Q. That failed. Tried it with Jesse White. That didn't work. We couldn't go after big names as our salary cap was reportedly under strain from 2011 Furthermore as you highlighted we haven't had the endless supply of draft picks Carlton, Essendon and Melbourne have enjoyed

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

I am sure there was a period of time just before Gubby Allan arrived, it was because our list was a joke? I don't think Hine was that highly regarded? That might be completely false but I remember hearing that from multiple sources. The same people that said Tom Langdon is done, well before it was common knowledge.

He says it every year. Best available at the draft and then trade for need.

He has the list that he and the rest of the team make up. On draft night, he crosses players off as they get read out and then takes the best available at our pick. The two he has reached for due to need have been Mclarty and McMahon, both kpp.

It could be that his list to begin with is NQR.

 

[JLC]

Shannon Neale at Geelong looks pretty good.

We selected Poulter and McMahon just before he went in the draft to Geelong.

 

[No SPIN]

But even when does select them eg McMahon McLarty with relative early picks, his talent id on what makes a good tall seems inadequate

Which 5 recruiters have a better strike rate?

 

[SchuPie]

Certainly not while early picks are compromised

We pretty much built that premiership side around great picks in 05, 08, 14

• Had some gifts: Moore / Daicos bros / Q
• Brilliant coaching

We don't need to get rid of Hine - what we need to do is stop giving away 1st rounds, especially future firsts for players that aren't the best of the best - esp gun mids and KPP.


If anyone wants too bemoan why we don't have any young talent coming through
* 2012

• Grundy falls to us (then fail to trade him for 2x 1sts, instead, destroying our cap, losing him for peanuts, forcing the trading of other players for very little)
• Kennedy + Broomhead

There wasn't much talent in this draft
Kennedy's chances of success (IMO) were destroyed by his constant selection as sub

* 2013
- Picks 6+11
We lose Daisy
Shaz + Freeman FMD

* 2014
- JDG / Moore (gift) / Bruz
+ Greenwood and Crisp
Brilliant

* 2015 + 2016
- Traded out 2x pick 7s

* 2017
- Stephenson
Pick nearly gets us premiership
then wtf happened?

* 2018+2019
- Traded out both first rounders and got Q
At our picks
* 2018
- Bobby / Schultz!!
* 2019
- Georgiadis / SDK / Gould / Worrell / Warner etc

* 2020

• Ollie at 17, traded for very little
• Finn at 19 (Holmes at 20)
• Pick 2 2021

* 2021

• Pick 2: Callaghan etc (everyone except JHF)
• Naicos (gift)

* 2022
Fantastic trading

• Allan at 18 (still to be seen if other players such as Gruzewski / George etc better)
• Ryan at 26

* 2023
- Haz (still to be seen if Morris / Reid et al better)
But stop reading out "top of the list" when it doesn't suit team balance or potential future success.
Good luck to Has, let's all support him, hope he has a long career with us, but that doesn't justify or excuse the strategy.


It seems clear when we have really high picks we nail them...so do you think we could hang onto a few - or at the least, use them for some guns to support Nick?!

 

[live fast pieyoung]

I think the ROI for key forwards is quite low accounting for risk and development time. We seem to have that view and have an overall strategy to get a KPF that is serviceable and ready to go, and to invest our draft capital elsewhere. Its a valid strategy, if you agree with the initial insight. I think its particularly valid if you dont get very high (top 5) draft picks.

Moreover, with our game style Im not so fussed that we havent taken a KPF at the draft. I dont think any of the KPFs available to us at our picks would have been much (or any) better than Mihocek.

But I would love to see us invest in another gun KPB. We could potentially get someone pretty good in that 10 - 20 range. I see it as much better Return-on-investment.

 

[Harry O]

Which 5 recruiters have a better strike rate?

Could give you 10

We don’t have the balls to make the hard call on Hine

 

[Soups]

Could give you 10

We don’t have the balls to make the hard call on Hine

Who would you have replace him?

 

[Harry O]

Who would you have replace him?

Dalrymple was there for taking 12 months ago. Saints snipped him though
Plenty of other good ones out there. Sydney have shifted Kinnear Beatson sideways - why not offer him a big deal? Proven gun