Combined Best 22 of dynasty teams in 21st century

[Noidnadroj]

What does a Brownlow season from 2012 or Coleman medals won in 2010 and 2012 have to do with the Richmond dynasty which was from 2017 to 2020?

When Richmond won flags Cotch managed only 1 top 5 finish in the BnF and Jack never appeared.

Richmond's best players (as acknowledged by Richmond coaches) during their premiership era were Dusty and Grimes, with Vlaustin the other player to have two top5 BnF finishes in 2019 & 20.

Dusty and Grimes would be the only two Tigers to earn a spot in a combined team based on output during the actual premiership era.

Rance, Jack and Cotch (club legends all of them) they all played the majority of their best footy before the Tigers started winning flags.

There’s playing football that wins awards and then there’s playing football that wins games. Cotchin was a much more valuable footballer from 2017-20 than he was from 2013-2016.


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[Noidnadroj]

Yep, as a Collingwood supporter, your lasting memory of Rance is the 2018 Preliminary Final.

Not his best performance I'm sure, but an all-time great key back wouldn't let a bloke like Mason Cox dominate the game like he did that night.

David Astbury played on Cox that night … so if Rance was on him a couple of times it was when trying to cover Astbury’s arse. Maybe you weren’t at the game.


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[adammania9]

Rance was mostly matched up on De Goey

 

[Pistol Night]

Rance was mostly matched up on De Goey

And DeGoey kicked 4

 

[doppleganger]

There’s playing football that wins awards and then there’s playing football that wins games. Cotchin was a much more valuable footballer from 2017-20 than he was from 2013-2016.


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Yeah because in 2017-20 he was just a role player whilst Dusty, Prestia, Edwards and Lambert were doing the heavy lifting in the midde and you had Short, Vlaustin and Houli providing run, carry and rebound off HB.

It was your Tiger mate who reckoned the winning a brownlow back in 2012 was somehow relevant to the best playrr from the 2017-20 era...so you agree with me that he is barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Noidnadroj]

And DeGoey kicked 4

Late in the second quarter it was 64-10. I reckon I would’ve kicked three for the Pies that night. Cox also kicked 3. As time has gone by it feels like he kicked 8… but it was 3.


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[Fadge]

Late in the second quarter it was 64-10. I reckon I would’ve kicked three for the Pies that night. Cox also kicked 3. As time has gone by it feels like he kicked 8… but it was 3.

They were 3 goals that broke the game wide open.

They led to the margin being 9 goals before half time, and the game was done.

Unlike J. Riewoldt's contribution when the result was decided...

 

[Pistol Night]

Late in the second quarter it was 64-10. I reckon I would’ve kicked three for the Pies that night. Cox also kicked 3. As time has gone by it feels like he kicked 8… but it was 3.


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We’re looking for key forwards. Hows your fitness levels?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Adelaide GWS and Geelong were all mediocre opponents and richmond easily won each of those matches in the end comfortably.

Geelong margin was deceiving to the actual way the game played out, as the scoreboard from halftime onwards was an absolute landslide with the team just all over geelong in every facet of the game.

Not as mediocre as Port v Cats grand final...

 

[doppleganger]

And DeGoey kicked 4

And he kicked his 4th 3min into the 3rd quarter.

It was DeGoey and Cox who tore that game apart....who was Rance supposedly hiding on, WHE?

 

[Pistol Night]

And he kicked his 4th 3min into the 3rd quarter.

It was DeGoey and Cox who tore that game apart....who was Rance supposedly hiding on, WHE?

Well he did that job well I guess.

 

[Cyclops]

As much as I love the Preliminaryship, it was just one game. I believe Richmond had a flu in the club (hence a whole heap of guys like Astbury simply unable to keep up and Rance found himself chasing whoever was leading), and Dusty was injured.

Very proud of the effort and we likely stopped a back to back, arguably a 4peat.

However its just one game and I wouldn't base my judgement of a player on that. There are stoppers and rebounder. Harris Andrews

31

Harris Andrews

Age

28

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

151.7

2star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

94.0

2star

does both. Even in his supposedly quiet first quarter of the GF he singlehandedly stopped two likely goals with really excellent footy. Scarlett was even more clearly a stopper, and a reliable rebounder too, unafraid to dart away.

Rance just never did that to us. Houli could out think us, Grimes and Vlastuin put up a barricade. Rance was a fast athletic zoner, I never saw him put the shackles on us.

There's a chance Harris Andrews

31

Harris Andrews

Age

28

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

151.7

2star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

94.0

2star

will be eligible for this soon, Brisbane are freaking great, one of the best runners up in years. Andrews would rival the brilliant Harry Taylor and all around star Roughhead (who sems to have faded from people's memory, he was an amazing player) as CHB for mine.

Dreaming on, if we somehow pinch another I wouldn't spruik our captain. I love Moore, he has a rare talent for outmarking KPF but is less adept as a stopper. I think KPD need stopping power as the first string to their bow and he's more a rebounder athlete like Rance.

Maybe we need a runners up dynasty best 22. Who is eligible? Pies 02/03, Saints 09/10, anyone else?

 

[Catsnlakers]

Prolly right...we only played and smashed the Scats over a 4 year finals campaign!

Unfortunately when our group won our 3 premierships you blokes were more successful at sacking coaches than winning finals… Don’t be fooled by the quality of your 3 time premiership squad, as shown by this thread, it’s by far the weakest this century.

 

[Catsnlakers]

As much as I love the Preliminaryship, it was just one game. I believe Richmond had a flu in the club (hence a whole heap of guys like Astbury simply unable to keep up and Rance found himself chasing whoever was leading), and Dusty was injured.

Very proud of the effort and we likely stopped a back to back, arguably a 4peat.

However its just one game and I wouldn't base my judgement of a player on that. There are stoppers and rebounder. Harris Andrews does both. Even in his supposedly quiet first quarter of the GF he singlehandedly stopped two likely goals with really excellent footy. Scarlett was even more clearly a stopper, and a reliable rebounder too, unafraid to dart away.

Rance just never did that to us. Houli could out think us, Grimes and Vlastuin put up a barricade. Rance was a fast athletic zoner, I never saw him put the shackles on us.

There's a chance Harris Andrews will be eligible for this soon, Brisbane are freaking great, one of the best runners up in years. Andrews would rival the brilliant Harry Taylor and all around star Roughhead (who sems to have faded from people's memory, he was an amazing player) as CHB for mine.

Dreaming on, if we somehow pinch another I wouldn't spruik our captain. I love Moore, he has a rare talent for outmarking KPF but is less adept as a stopper. I think KPD need stopping power as the first string to their bow and he's more a rebounder athlete like Rance.

Maybe we need a runners up dynasty best 22. Who is eligible? Pies 02/03, Saints 09/10, anyone else?

The best runner up dynasty would certainly be the Saints of 09/10, that team would of won the premiership in any year from basically 2016 onwards, and that even includes a premiership won by my own club. They probably would of won in 2005/06 against the Eagles and Swans too.

 

[Defabs]

Late in the second quarter it was 64-10. I reckon I would’ve kicked three for the Pies that night. Cox also kicked 3. As time has gone by it feels like he kicked 8… but it was 3.


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Not really. Cox’s performance over time has not become overhyped. He had 11 contested marks (one of, if not the highest no of contested marks in a final) plus the three goals in 5 minutes that killed the contest. Also pulled off a fantastic HTB as well. The fact that his form was mediocre at best going into that game and was almost dropped after the QF loss, adds weight to his performance.

 

[Defabs]

The best runner up dynasty would certainly be the Saints of 09/10, that team would of won the premiership in any year from basically 2016 onwards, and that even includes a premiership won by my own club. They probably would of won in 2005/06 against the Eagles and Swans too.

That period from between 2008 to 2011 was incredible actually. Five dominant teams who were the only teams who made the top 4 exc WCE in 2011.
Even WB who made the PF 3 years in a row in that era is lost on most people. Reminded me of the VFL days where there were only several teams who had a legitimate chance of winning the flag

 

[Noidnadroj]

They were 3 goals that broke the game wide open.

They led to the margin being 9 goals before half time, and the game was done.

Unlike J. Riewoldt's contribution when the result was decided...

It was 32-9 at 1/4 time and Cox hadn’t kicked a goal. Of course Cox was influential in his 10-minute purple patch where he kicked 3-goals at the start of the second, and I agree those 3 goals helped put the game to bed. But the Pies were already demolishing the Tigers by then - Cox joined the party early in the second from an avalanche of inside-50’s. Collingwood had about 15 inside 50’s to none the first half of the second quarter and Cox didn’t miss out on his lick of the ice cream.

Cox finished with 15 touches at 40% efficiency, 3 goals and no goal assists.

If ever a key forward was going to kick some goals it was from halfway through the first quarter to half time when the Pies kicked 9-goals to 1 and had midfield dominance like I’ve never seen in any final … ever. But you’ve still gotta take the marks and kick the goals which Cox did with aplomb in that 10-minute patch.

Riewoldt kicked 5 from limited opportunities. He kicked his fifth at the start of the last quarter to bring the margin to 29-points. Higgins kicked another at the 7-minute mark to make it 23-points with 20 minutes left and Tigers had a sniff. If any Pies supporter tells you they weren’t nervous as f**k when Higgins goaled to make it 23-points with loads of time left they are lying. Pies kicked the last 3-goals to win by 39-points.


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[Noidnadroj]

As much as I love the Preliminaryship, it was just one game. I believe Richmond had a flu in the club (hence a whole heap of guys like Astbury simply unable to keep up and Rance found himself chasing whoever was leading), and Dusty was injured.

Very proud of the effort and we likely stopped a back to back, arguably a 4peat.

However its just one game and I wouldn't base my judgement of a player on that. There are stoppers and rebounder. Harris Andrews

31

Harris Andrews

Age

28

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

151.7

2star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

94.0

2star

does both. Even in his supposedly quiet first quarter of the GF he singlehandedly stopped two likely goals with really excellent footy. Scarlett was even more clearly a stopper, and a reliable rebounder too, unafraid to dart away.

Rance just never did that to us. Houli could out think us, Grimes and Vlastuin put up a barricade. Rance was a fast athletic zoner, I never saw him put the shackles on us.

There's a chance Harris Andrews

31

Harris Andrews

Age

28

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

151.7

2star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

94.0

2star

will be eligible for this soon, Brisbane are freaking great, one of the best runners up in years. Andrews would rival the brilliant Harry Taylor and all around star Roughhead (who sems to have faded from people's memory, he was an amazing player) as CHB for mine.

Dreaming on, if we somehow pinch another I wouldn't spruik our captain. I love Moore, he has a rare talent for outmarking KPF but is less adept as a stopper. I think KPD need stopping power as the first string to their bow and he's more a rebounder athlete like Rance.

Maybe we need a runners up dynasty best 22. Who is eligible? Pies 02/03, Saints 09/10, anyone else?

I don’t know about sickness in the team or anything like that, but there are two things that are not in dispute:

1. Martin had a badly corked leg and wasn’t fully fit.
2. Astbury was in hospital the night before the game on an IV drip to replace lost fluids from an illness.

It’s also not in dispute that both played in the PF, so you win ‘em and you wear ‘em.




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[Noidnadroj]

That period from between 2008 to 2011 was incredible actually. Five dominant teams who were the only teams who made the top 4 exc WCE in 2011.
Even WB who made the PF 3 years in a row in that era is lost on most people. Reminded me of the VFL days where there were only several teams who had a legitimate chance of winning the flag

It’s an interesting discussion….

I wonder … if we got to the end of 2026, and across the 2023-26 seasons the top-4 had been dominated by Pies, Lions, GWS and Carlton year in and year out with 14 teams barely making a whimper, would that be an indication the 2023-26 era was a strong one, or a weak one?


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[Fadge]

It’s an interesting discussion….

I wonder … if we got to the end of 2026, and across the 2023-26 seasons the top-4 had been dominated by Pies, Lions, GWS and Carlton year in and year out with 14 teams barely making a whimper, would that be an indication the 2023-26 era was a strong one, or a weak one?

This current Pies team is a rung below the 2010/11 version.

We could threepeat and I'd still rate it inferior to the 2010/11 model, and there are no Geelong 2007-11 to compete against either.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Our entire team was dominated that night. It happens. I've seen plenty of greats play some not so good finals. The one outlier doesn't decide his legacy.

Yes...
Had a phenomenal Season...top of the ladder! 18 Wins...311%
Just managed to beat the doggies last game of the season...come from behind...
From memory the Team was limping along towards the GF...
From memory quite a few players were injured or carrying injuries...
Beat the Hawks...
But to their credit the Pies got us!

 

[Noidnadroj]

Not really. Cox’s performance over time has not become overhyped. He had 11 contested marks (one of, if not the highest no of contested marks in a final) plus the three goals in 5 minutes that killed the contest. Also pulled off a fantastic HTB as well. The fact that his form was mediocre at best going into that game and was almost dropped after the QF loss, adds weight to his performance.

He didn’t take 11 contested marks. I agree, he did play a fantastic 5-minutes of footy with 3 goals. He was terrific on the night. He kicked 3 goals and had 15 touches at 40% - 6 effective disposals. Pies were dominant before Cox kicked his first goal. And yes, him being a yank and a very average footballer has elevated his performance in that PF immensely.

All that is true.


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[Noidnadroj]

This current Pies team is a rung below the 2010/11 version.

We could threepeat and I'd still rate it inferior to the 2010/11 model, and there are no Geelong 2007-11 to compete against either.

Unless I’ve missed it I haven’t seen your Pies 2010GF team combined with Tigers 2020GF team …that’ll help judge the quality, won’t it?


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[KissKiss]

There’s playing football that wins awards and then there’s playing football that wins games. Cotchin was a much more valuable footballer from 2017-20 than he was from 2013-2016.


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Most people agree that role players who sacrifice their games to help their clubs win are underrated club champions. But when you are talking about combining all time great teams being combined the role players tend to get marked down.

Its pretty hard to justify Cotchin against the guys who were also captaining their premierships while racking up Brownlows, AAs, Norm Smiths, BnFs in those years.

Its also the same reason I cant justify Brown or Hawkins and maybe even Rance and Buddy. Not because they werent brilliant players over their careers. But because their best wasnt across their premierships. And we seem to have drawn a line at those who have won at least 2 of the threepeats for each team (Kinda ignoring 2008 and 2022 for a couple of guys)

 

[Noidnadroj]

Most people agree that role players who sacrifice their games to help their clubs win are underrated club champions. But when you are talking about combining all time great teams being combined the role players tend to get marked down.

Its pretty hard to justify Cotchin against the guys who were also captaining their premierships while racking up Brownlows, AAs, Norm Smiths, BnFs in those years.

Its also the same reason I cant justify Brown or Hawkins and maybe even Rance and Buddy. Not because they werent brilliant players over their careers. But because their best wasnt across their premierships. And we seem to have drawn a line at those who have won at least 2 of the threepeats for each team (Kinda ignoring 2008 and 2022 for a couple of guys)

Fair enough. I don’t believe Cotchin should be a lock for a combined team by any stretch, and I have him behind the likes of Mitchell, Black, Voss, GAJ, Martin. But having watched our team from 2017-20 he was the ultimate moments player, throughout the H&A and finals. A bit like Burgoyne in that happy knack of impacting just at the right time with a tackle, smother, knock on or contest that may not be recognised on a stats sheet.


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