Combined Soccer vs AFL threads - please post here

[VikingSven]

Rugby League in France (French) - http://www.ffr13.com/

Most of the teams are located in the south with a team from Perpignan playing in regular competition with the English clubs.

Melburnians are sports-lovers and people in Melbourne would come in their 000's to watch Tiddly-winks.. it doesn't mean that they will take up the sport. The Melbourne Storm has it's niche there and seems to be going ok given the sporting landscape there.

A realistic aim for Aussie Rules anywhere outside the homeland is to become the everyones 2nd or 3rd favourite sport. If we can achieve that in less than one generation, we've come a long, long way...

 

[Falcon]

Australian Rules is in my opinion still very safe in Australia. I, like many others do not believe the hype of Soccer, and am sure it will die off after the conclusion of the World Cup Final, which Australia will never be apart of. Soccer will live through the very multi-cultural country of Australia, but it will not be a major challenge to our indigenous game, Australian Rules Football. Some points in favour of 'Footy':

Do not mistake crowd excitment in soccer for game excitment. Soccer fans have a lot of time to practise those chants, given many games can often turn out a 0-0 draw.

The threat of wild soccer crowds will also deter families from the game, and prevent it from been a welcomed sport by authorties. When it is safer on the field than in the stands, something is wrong.

Soccer prevents the use of the most skillful part of the human body, the hands. It only really has a variety of different kicks, mostly just amounts of spin. What else does it have? A throw in, and goalie save. Australian Rules has many forms of kicks, Drop punt, torpedo, drop kick, banana, snap and even the unnamed kick. Plus our game has handballs, marks, speckies, smothers, ruck contests, tackles, tap ons, bounces, unpredictability. Another aspect is the continuous excitment, where goals are scored regularly.

Look at crowd figures even if you like, in ratio to Australia's total population and AFL attendances, Australian Rules Football is the most attended game in the world! Regularly scoring larger crowds than soccer games in Europe, and always making it bigger than Rugby League. Of course NFL in America gets millions more people, but remember the amount of millions more people the US is home too. Considering the 'small' population of this country, it is amazing how big a sport is, especially when it is minor in the country's main city Sydney, home to the most amount of people in one Australian spot, and Brisbane, with the biggest amount of people moving north.

I wouldn't worry if people believe Soccer is soon on its way to becoming Australia's #1 football code. As this will soon be proven wrong when World Cup hype builds down, and all the country has left is the minor A-League competition. AFL, Australian Rules Football, is the right game for this multi-cultural nation. Certainly not Soccer, or Union, or league.

 

[Ragnarok14]

Australian Rules is in my opinion still very safe in Australia. I, like many others do not believe the hype of Soccer, and am sure it will die off after the conclusion of the World Cup Final, which Australia will never be apart of. Soccer will live through the very multi-cultural country of Australia, but it will not be a major challenge to our indigenous game, Australian Rules Football. Some points in favour of 'Footy':

Do not mistake crowd excitment in soccer for game excitment. Soccer fans have a lot of time to practise those chants, given many games can often turn out a 0-0 draw.

The threat of wild soccer crowds will also deter families from the game, and prevent it from been a welcomed sport by authorties. When it is safer on the field than in the stands, something is wrong.

Soccer prevents the use of the most skillful part of the human body, the hands. It only really has a variety of different kicks, mostly just amounts of spin. What else does it have? A throw in, and goalie save. Australian Rules has many forms of kicks, Drop punt, torpedo, drop kick, banana, snap and even the unnamed kick. Plus our game has handballs, marks, speckies, smothers, ruck contests, tackles, tap ons, bounces, unpredictability. Another aspect is the continuous excitment, where goals are scored regularly.

Look at crowd figures even if you like, in ratio to Australia's total population and AFL attendances, Australian Rules Football is the most attended game in the world! Regularly scoring larger crowds than soccer games in Europe, and always making it bigger than Rugby League. Of course NFL in America gets millions more people, but remember the amount of millions more people the US is home too. Considering the 'small' population of this country, it is amazing how big a sport is, especially when it is minor in the country's main city Sydney, home to the most amount of people in one Australian spot, and Brisbane, with the biggest amount of people moving north.

I wouldn't worry if people believe Soccer is soon on its way to becoming Australia's #1 football code. As this will soon be proven wrong when World Cup hype builds down, and all the country has left is the minor A-League competition. AFL, Australian Rules Football, is the right game for this multi-cultural nation. Certainly not Soccer, or Union, or league.

Seeing as you dont buy into the world cup hype why then do you buy into the anit soccer hype? Your post is littered with ignorant facts. I for one love both soccer and AFL, and most people who enjoy soccer, aisde from those who only exclusively like soccer) dont think its going to become the number one sport in australia.

As for all these 0-0 draws that aparantly happen the world cup is currently averaging over 3 goals a game, the a-league was around 3 goals a game, similar to and in some cases more than the european leagues.

The crowd figures for AFL are impressive but you can't take that as the whole story, almost all soccer grounds are not bigger than 30k even for some of the really big clubs, and have you ever tried to get a ticket to a EPL game? Not to mention that almost all other sports with a decent crowd average have more teams, more games and a much more congested schedule than AFL, you have to wonder if the AFL had 4 divisions, or even one division of 20 teams playing 36 rounds + international competitions, preseason games, 2 cup competitions and players playing international games throughout the season if the crowd average would remain so high for AFL.

Your knowledge of the different aspects/skills needed in soccer is non-existant but that is acceptable as you obviously dont follow the game which is fine but it is like someone who doesn't watch afl saying all players do is catch and kick the ball, see my point?

I'd also like you to point out when was the last time someone was injured as a result of a soccer riot here? Even those 'massive' riots reported by the media a few years ago only resulted in one arrest (same weekend League had 20 + fans arrested after a game, but that got no coverage did it?).

As for goals being scored regularly adding to the excitment of a game, if you look at league and union compared to soccer, the number of what could be called the primary scores in a game are similar, hell take australias win over japan, if each goal was worth 6 points the score would be 6 - 18 now if you made each shot on target (those that would have gone in if not for being saved) worth a point the score would have been 9 - 29.

Now all that being said I do agree with you that soccer wont replace AFL as number one, thinking that way is just stupid, plus the FFA isn't even trying to do that, but thinking the a-league is poor quality and that there isn't going to be a large number of soccer events to get behind, even between now and the end of the year, is also stupid.

 

[Peter P]

The reason Soccer poses some threat to Australian Football - through taking a larger share of TV money, sponsor money, player talent and to a lesser extent fans (you can still be a fan of both sports) is because it is a global game and globalisation looks here to stay and increase as a force for change.

Globalisation could work in Aussie Rules favour. We have a multicultural country and plenty of connections back to foreign countries. Just getting 0.1% of the world's team sports players playing Aussie Rules (just expanding the overseas leagues and clubs already in existence) would triple or quadruple the player talent to the AFL draft, the TV money (global internet TV is likely the way of the future), sponsorship, merchandising and overseas tourists coming on footy tours to Australia.

The best investment the AFL clubs can make is to invest a fraction of the current TV/Internet rights windfall in helping the overseas leagues with full time administrators to help grow the game.

Before you start saying "nah never", "impossible" etc - spend 15 minutes looking around the 700 stories from the last 2 years on www.worldfootynews.com

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Yeah and they all travelled from the deep dark North to Scotland when it was held there.

Well here is a Welsh team in NL2, it's their 1st year and they are confident of promotion to NL1 at the end of the season, they have a count down clock on the home page and it's counting down to 2008 when they say they will be in SL.

The two fastest growing areas in the UK for sport are London and Wales, and RL is the sport that is growing.

I showed you that RL beats the union on SKY sports, I know the biggest drawing Rugby clubs in England are Rugby League teams.

You say that Scotland don't care and don't watch n play.

Didn't they sellout their own stadium for the challenge cup?

Each team only get 15,000 tix, considering it was full, they must've had some locals come down a watch it?

http://www.answers.com/topic/rugby-league-in-scotland

In 2000 and 2002 the Challenge Cup Final was held at Murrayfield in Edinburgh, the home of the Scottish Rugby Union. in 2000 Bradford Bulls defeated Leeds Rhinos 24-18, and in 2002 Wigan Warriors beat St. Helens 21-12. Both ties were played in front of over 60,000 spectators, by far the biggest rugby league events ever held in Scotland.

I know how small it is, but it's not as small as you're making out.

Ireland is the same as Scotland but they have more teams, it gets shown on SKY TV as does the rest of the UK.

They have 13 teams in their top division.

http://www.rli.ie/

Ireland, Scotland and Wales put together wouldn't have as much support as the French have.

I don't really care, but you said some things that aren't true, some of these places have a very rich and proud history when it comes to RL, it's a pity the media always bags RL and doesn't let anyone know about them.

It's hard to find anything out about French RL simply because they don't call it Rugby League and they don't seem to travel around the English speaking sites, but they do exist.

Jeu à Treize

Point taken.

I'll keep my eye out for it and try to get along and see a match.

 

[fishmonger]

was at Rebel Sport (a sydney based sports good store that makes no bones about promoting the rugby codes and soccer over AFL) yesterday and was disgusted to see their posters with a doctored Socceroos jumper to display "Australian Football" under the national coat of arms, instead of what it normally says, just "Australia".

On the wall was a poster ad for Nike with a map of Australia and the number 1, which also tried to proclaim "Australian Football" as the country's most popular sport.

Even if you look up "Australian Football" on Wikipedia, it seems that the soccer purists are definately keen to push this agenda:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_football

If I was the AFL, I'd be a bit ****ed at this blatant propaganda and attempts to try and claim our code's official name as soccer's own.

Afterall, there is absolutely nothing Australian about soccer, apart from the fact that the socceroos wear green and gold.

 

[harmesy 37]

was at Rebel Sport (a sydney based sports good store that makes no bones about promoting the rugby codes and soccer over AFL) yesterday and was disgusted to see their posters with a doctored Socceroos jumper to display "Australian Football" under the national coat of arms, instead of what it normally says, just "Australia".

On the wall was a poster ad for Nike with a map of Australia and the number 1, which also tried to proclaim "Australian Football" as the country's most popular sport.

Even if you look up "Australian Football" on Wikipedia, it seems that the soccer purists are definately keen to push this agenda:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_football

If I was the AFL, I'd be a bit ****ed at this blatant propaganda and attempts to try and claim our code's official name as soccer's own.

Afterall, there is absolutely nothing Australian about soccer, apart from the fact that the socceroos wear green and gold.

Agree 100%

The soccer people are being quite belligerent and aggressive in promoting their game. I would have thought a more inclusive attitude would have not have put so many people off side. Doing things such as calling it "Australian Football" is aggressive in the extreme and then you have aggressive remarks from oneill and hiddick on top of that too.


Have you noticed that most of the people that have those Australian flags in their cars are women drivers?

As women represent about 20-25% of the people who play soccer in this country... nearly 1 in 4 ... i guess that makes sense.


But at the end of the day we are comparing two different sports. one is a contact sport and the other is as non-contact as netball or volleyball. when i say non-contact i mean that 80% of the time you contact someone in soccer you are likely to give away a freekick of some description. pulling a guernsey can result in a yellow card etc. touching someones leg usually results in a freekick etc.

i used to enjoy watching the fa cup etc.. but now i feel that they are being so aggressive in promoting their game.. i might not even watch the epl anymore.

 

[Beckers]

i used to enjoy watching the fa cup etc.. but now i feel that they are being so aggressive in promoting their game.. i might not even watch the epl anymore.

Going a bit far! What does the EPL have to do with the dross that gets served up here?
I tried my hardest to watch the Victory last year (because i don't care much for Cricket!) and managed about 2 games before drifting back to the EPL!

 

[fishmonger]

Have you noticed that most of the people that have those Australian flags in their cars are women drivers?

As women represent about 20-25% of the people who play soccer in this country... nearly 1 in 4 ... i guess that makes sense.
.

Hopefully the AFl's Rec Footy participation program will go some way to turning this around.

Incidentally, my girlfriend loves AFL more than I do (I love the local Aussie Rules more). She thinks soccer is dead boring, but doesn't play it. I play indoor soccer, but hate watching it.

Anyway, she doesn't play because she think's Women's Footy is too rough and butch ... but she is considering playing Rec Footy at the end of this footy season.

My only bones about this ia although Rec Footy is essentially a non-contact, it bears little if any resemblance to AFL footy (except the shape of the ball and how you kick and mark it). It has completely different fields and netball like rules.

Still, as spectators at least, I think the AFL is making good headway with the female audience ...

In response to your comment though, from my observations the biggest component at the moment is the 30 something mediteranean ethnic community, who see the socceroos success as a chance of having their home sport in the mainstream in this country. Some of them probably disgruntled Carlton fans ....

 

[Ragnarok14]

Women's soccer - fastest growing sport in the WORLD, go figure...

 

[Treasurer]

HHAHAHAHAHHAHA these thread are a laugh.

Rec footy is boring as bat sh*t!!!
Soccer is promoting its sport aggressively oh and the AFL who payed networks to keep the sport down.
I used to love AFL but became disenchanted with it soem time ago its boring as sh*t to watch.

Went ot Brasil Australia last night the AFL could learn alot.

Soccer or Football will be the number 1 sport in this country like it or not its just a better sport that doesn't have salary cap extentions and change to rules every year.

 

[harmesy 37]

Hopefully the AFl's Rec Footy participation program will go some way to turning this around.

Incidentally, my girlfriend loves AFL more than I do (I love the local Aussie Rules more). She thinks soccer is dead boring, but doesn't play it. I play indoor soccer, but hate watching it.

Anyway, she doesn't play because she think's Women's Footy is too rough and butch ... but she is considering playing Rec Footy at the end of this footy season.

My only bones about this ia although Rec Footy is essentially a non-contact, it bears little if any resemblance to AFL footy (except the shape of the ball and how you kick and mark it). It has completely different fields and netball like rules.

Still, as spectators at least, I think the AFL is making good headway with the female audience ...

In response to your comment though, from my observations the biggest component at the moment is the 30 something mediteranean ethnic community, who see the socceroos success as a chance of having their home sport in the mainstream in this country. Some of them probably disgruntled Carlton fans ....

Good point here Fishmonger.

I agree. I think women love Aust. Footy for the same reason men love it - the speed the skill etc.

Women make up a massive percentage of the people that go to AFL matches.
If you go to a rugby match you will notice that very few females (in proportion) are at the matches.

I have played proper footy and rec. footy and think rec. footy is a great innovation. it will translate female interest in the game into participation.

The women i have played rec. footy with loved it - especially if they are involved. that is the key. some women don't have the skill base to immediately feel involved.

rec. footy is good fun.. and it also keeps older people involved in the game.
I would be doing all possible to get 30 -40 year olds involved in this game.

 

[amnesiac]

sport is no longer just 'sport', its big business worth billions of dollars. the afl and ffa are two organisations just like two any other businesses. for this reason, there is always going to be competition between the two and you end up having both sides trying to gain a share of the profits from the other. just like coke and pepsi, both sides will promote their product where possible and when the opportunity presents, put down the other to make themselves appeal more to the consumer.

for years now the afl especially has had to pump millions upon millions of dollars into grassroots development. this is not a way of 'giving back to the game', rather it is an investment, a way of increasing long-term market share over other sports including the round ball code.

the afl has every right to defend its product and do all it can to make itself the number one sport in the country. likewise so does the ffa. very rarely will you find either party having a really dig at each other, it is not good business to take pot shots at your competition, it not only makes you look untrustworthy, but weak at the same time.

the complications occur through people with vested interests in either side. these may include the clubs, individuals or other third parties who take it upon themself to 'protect' their sport. these can be brought about through a vested interest, stupidity or just plain ignorance. there are people on both sides and this is not isolated to any one side. there are afl fans who are sledge soccer without ever really sitting down and watching a game, and there are soccer fans who hate afl simply because it is the top covered/talked about sport in melbourne and other cities.

there are also third parties who will jump on and off both codes. look at nike for example, they will promote the use of the word 'football' in reference to the roundball code to build a relationship with fans of the game. does nike australia refer to the game as 'football'? probably not, but they know it sells and as such will call it that. they are doing what they can to boost sales and whether you like it or not these parties will always do such things.

at the end of the day though, does it really all matter? i say let the people play the sport they want. let the people watch the sport they want. if they want to watch soccer more than afl, then give a proportionate amount of media coverage, if people want to watch afl more than soccer then give more media coverage to the afl. there are barriers to this occuring in the short-term, but in the long-term if there is as many pages about soccer in your sunday sports section then so be it.

watch what you want to watch, play what you want to play and let others do the same.

 

[D/MoN]

Agree 100%

The soccer people are being quite belligerent and aggressive in promoting their game. I would have thought a more inclusive attitude would have not have put so many people off side. Doing things such as calling it "Australian Football" is aggressive in the extreme and then you have aggressive remarks from oneill and hiddick on top of that too.

Yes, soccer's 'Saint' Guus openly mocked footy at a press conference here and John O'Neill's contempt for our game is obvious.

 

[Falcon]

What exactly did Guus say about footy?

 

[fishmonger]

What exactly did Guus say about footy?

Guus winds up Aussies with funny-shaped balls
http://www.theage.com.au/news/socce...nnyshaped-balls/2006/05/26/1148524890293.html
May 27, 2006

USUALLY the consummate diplomat, Guus Hiddink could not resist a gentle slap at Australia's indigenous football code as he departed these shores yesterday for the last time as Socceroo coach.

"I think (soccer) in Australia has become so big now, although you try all kinds of sports with another-shaped object, I don't really know what it is, and you do something like that," he said, grimacing, and making a handball gesture.

"The real game is growing and growing. All the world is playing this game and it will be the biggest game here as well, despite the other games you try and invent."

Of course, it would take more than a throwaway line, delivered tongue-in-cheek, to destroy the love affair between Australia and the man who pulled soccer in this country from the periphery to the centre of national consciousness.

 

[Sir_Adrian84]

Guus winds up Aussies with funny-shaped balls
http://www.theage.com.au/news/soccer/guus-winds-up-aussies-with-funnyshaped-balls/2006/05/26/1148524890293.html
May 27, 2006

USUALLY the consummate diplomat, Guus Hiddink could not resist a gentle slap at Australia's indigenous football code as he departed these shores yesterday for the last time as Socceroo coach.

"I think (soccer) in Australia has become so big now, although you try all kinds of sports with another-shaped object, I don't really know what it is, and you do something like that," he said, grimacing, and making a handball gesture.

"The real game is growing and growing. All the world is playing this game and it will be the biggest game here as well, despite the other games you try and invent."

Of course, it would take more than a throwaway line, delivered tongue-in-cheek, to destroy the love affair between Australia and the man who pulled soccer in this country from the periphery to the centre of national consciousness.

Kevin Sheedy has bagged sports as well. People are making a big deal over nothing.

 

[fishmonger]

Kevin Sheedy has bagged sports as well. People are making a big deal over nothing.

you're right, but does anyone from another country actually listen to what he has to say ?

Most Australians think this guy is a god, and hang off his every word. He would definately be more well known in this country even than Kevin Sheedy and yet he's not even from this country.

Many of my mates in Queensland would have never even heard of Sheedy, yet they all know who Guus Hiddink is now.

 

[Sir_Adrian84]

sport is no longer just 'sport', its big business worth billions of dollars. the afl and ffa are two organisations just like two any other businesses. for this reason, there is always going to be competition between the two and you end up having both sides trying to gain a share of the profits from the other. just like coke and pepsi, both sides will promote their product where possible and when the opportunity presents, put down the other to make themselves appeal more to the consumer.

for years now the afl especially has had to pump millions upon millions of dollars into grassroots development. this is not a way of 'giving back to the game', rather it is an investment, a way of increasing long-term market share over other sports including the round ball code.

the afl has every right to defend its product and do all it can to make itself the number one sport in the country. likewise so does the ffa. very rarely will you find either party having a really dig at each other, it is not good business to take pot shots at your competition, it not only makes you look untrustworthy, but weak at the same time.

the complications occur through people with vested interests in either side. these may include the clubs, individuals or other third parties who take it upon themself to 'protect' their sport. these can be brought about through a vested interest, stupidity or just plain ignorance. there are people on both sides and this is not isolated to any one side. there are afl fans who are sledge soccer without ever really sitting down and watching a game, and there are soccer fans who hate afl simply because it is the top covered/talked about sport in melbourne and other cities.

there are also third parties who will jump on and off both codes. look at nike for example, they will promote the use of the word 'football' in reference to the roundball code to build a relationship with fans of the game. does nike australia refer to the game as 'football'? probably not, but they know it sells and as such will call it that. they are doing what they can to boost sales and whether you like it or not these parties will always do such things.

at the end of the day though, does it really all matter? i say let the people play the sport they want. let the people watch the sport they want. if they want to watch soccer more than afl, then give a proportionate amount of media coverage, if people want to watch afl more than soccer then give more media coverage to the afl. there are barriers to this occuring in the short-term, but in the long-term if there is as many pages about soccer in your sunday sports section then so be it.

watch what you want to watch, play what you want to play and let others do the same.

Well said.
People are making a big deal from both sides over the world cup.
On one hand there are paranoid people who are scared of a threat which hardly exists- if for a few weeks every 4 years people care about soccer- good.
There are also soccer supporters who are denigrating all other sports and wanting to change our culture (i.e. changing the name to Australian Football as said above). AFL is our unique sport and no one should be ashamed of us playing rugby (L and U), AFL, cricket etc.

People who annoy me are those who refuse to support the socceroos because of a fear of soccer; and
Secondly those whop only support the socceroos but have no loyalty to any other Australian team.
Most people should see the S/Roos and no different to the Wallabies, K/Roos etc and support all Australian teams no just jump on a bandwagon for 4 weeks.

That said, hopefully Australia does do well, but AFL will still be strong in the long run.

 

[Sir_Adrian84]

you're right, but does anyone from another country actually listen to what he has to say ?

Most Australians think this guy is a god, and hang off his every word. He would definately be more well known in this country even than Kevin Sheedy and yet he's not even from this country.

Many of my mates in Queensland would have never even heard of Sheedy, yet they all know who Guus Hiddink is now.

Correct, but still people have their opinions and this is unlikely to make any difference to how AFL is perceived.

 

[Kompany]

Even if you look up "Australian Football" on Wikipedia, it seems that the soccer purists are definately keen to push this agenda:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_football

What's wrong with that link

Afterall, there is absolutely nothing Australian about soccer, apart from the fact that the socceroos wear green and gold.

Ah crawl back in your hole man

 

[Scotland]

Honestly who cares what the administration of the sport of soccer call themselves, or what they think of Australian rules football? Guus Hiddink isn't a fan of the AFL, so what? That's Guus' business. Has no footy personality ever bagged soccer? Hmmm, I think they just might've.

Soccer has been the bitch of the football codes for years in this country and is finally doing some good things and getting recognition. Aggressively promoting the game is what any good administration should be doing. I don't see any hesitation from Channel 9 and the footy show in heading over to Germany to cash in on the world cup and promote the profiles of their representatives from other codes, despite the fact that soccer has been bashed on that show before.

Australia has four football codes and it's an open market. What each code does is up to them.

 

[Sir_Adrian84]

Honestly who cares what the administration of the sport of soccer call themselves, or what they think of Australian rules football? Guus Hiddink isn't a fan of the AFL, so what? That's Guus' business. Has no footy personality ever bagged soccer? Hmmm, I think they just might've.

Soccer has been the bitch of the football codes for years in this country and is finally doing some good things and getting recognition. Aggressively promoting the game is what any good administration should be doing. I don't see any hesitation from Channel 9 and the footy show in heading over to Germany to cash in on the world cup and promote the profiles of their representatives from other codes, despite the fact that soccer has been bashed on that show before.

Australia has four football codes and it's an open market. What each code does is up to them.[/quote]

Exactly.

 

[fishmonger]

What's wrong with that link

it gets vandalised daily by soccer fans.
"Australian Football" is just that. The official name for the sport commonly known as Aussie Rules. It does not mean soccer played by Australians.
If you can't see that then you're blind.

here is a transcript

Talk:Australian football
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
There's something wrong here. If we're talking correct Australian English, then why is Australian Football attributed to the sport commonly known as Aussie Rules?

Australian football is football played by Australians. --Debunct 15:34, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Where are you from, Debunct? Grant65 | Talk 10:01, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
I disagree Debunct. The sport you are referring to is Association football. TheRealAntonius 12:23, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Australian_football"

 

[O'Brien]

.
Australia has four football codes and it's an open market. What each code does is up to them.

It’s really quite unfortunate that I’ve had to trawl through 19 pages of generally unmitigated crap to find a worthwhile comment. But the above comment sums up my sentiments more precisely than I ever could.

I’ve had to tolerate harmesy’s truly risible contributions to this thread: which amount to little more than the old “wogs, sheilas, ****tas” slur of bygone eras. Harmesy, who professes his dislike of the game, yet seems to make a habit of popping into every “soccer” related thread, uttering feckless obloquies in the vain hope of convincing everyone of gawd knows what!!!

Then we have fishmonger, a fascinating case study, with his peculiar (and slightly hilarious) “soccer” related conspiracy theories. Apparently everyone from Wikipedia to Rebels sports is involved in this scheme to see “soccer” conquer poor defenceless Aussie Rules. Run for the hills everyone, the end is nigh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well if people aren’t captivated by the world games unique beauty, they will almost certainly be turned off AFL by the paranoid ravings of fishmonger and harmesy….