List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

What should we do with our 1st round draft pick?

  • Finn O’Sullivan

    Votes: 57 19.0%

  • Sid Draper

    Votes: 86 28.7%

  • Josh Smillie

    Votes: 22 7.3%

  • Jagga Smith

    Votes: 34 11.3%

  • Split for best mid and Tobie Travaglia

    Votes: 46 15.3%

  • Split for best mid and Liam Baker

    Votes: 20 6.7%

  • Split for best mid and best KPD

    Votes: 4 1.3%

  • Split for best two mids

    Votes: 9 3.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 13 4.3%

  • Sam Lalor

    Votes: 9 3.0%
  • Total voters
    300
  • Poll closed .

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Last edited by a moderator:
GoEaglesGoSGIO said:
I think 4 year 8 mill for McCluggage is the type of offer he would need

Idea of offering 1.2 mill etc is laughable. We need to change multiple lives to make such a deal happen. He aint joining as a charity case
Click to expand...

1.2m isn’t far off what Lions will offer him.

With cap increases 1 million is the new 750K.
 

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GoEaglesGoSGIO said:
I think 4 year 8 mill for McCluggage is the type of offer he would need

Idea of offering 1.2 mill etc is laughable. We need to change multiple lives to make such a deal happen. He aint joining as a charity case
Click to expand...

There is no way I would be parting a million for mccluggage .. he accumulates the ball fine but isn’t quick and has no accuracy when kicking on goals.. he would be like a yeo without the injury problems.. until he gets to MRP of course


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Dom sheed pocket said:
Interesting that Busslinger was linked with North on gettable today.

Saw someone else mention North were keen on him on the DTFA board.

If Busslinger doesn’t re-sign and chooses North over us, that might be the nail in the coffin. Fold the club.
Click to expand...
Wouldn’t be surprised, Nth would have plenty of cap space to put an overs offer in front of him. That and some of the missing pieces for Nth are key position players so they will definitely be targeting those types.
Nth from a rebuild point of view are at least a few years in front of us and so they should be. As they continue to improve they will become more attractive as a club for players out of contract that are considering moving from a club.
 
FKASC said:
I don’t think mccluggage is going to help us that much. He’s shown he’s a bit of a downhill skiier and I don’t rate his kicking under pressure (especially for goal). I think we’d bring out the worst in him given where we’re at.
Click to expand...
I agree but we dont have other options. With Warner and co we cant afford to lose the draft currency we need to give up.
 
Dom sheed pocket said:
Interesting that Busslinger was linked with North on gettable today.

Saw someone else mention North were keen on him on the DTFA board.

If Busslinger doesn’t re-sign and chooses North over us, that might be the nail in the coffin. Fold the club.
Click to expand...
If im a KPP defender id choose North over Eagles for sure. At North he has zero competition and with us he does.
 
Not that we were ever really in the hunt, but Logan’s manager says he is deep in conversations with Swans for both Logan and Errol and it’s more a matter of tenure, 2 years or 4 to get him to free agency.

The manager is known to be not the easiest to deal with and things aren’t always as they appear. Also manages Horne-Francis and I think Tarryn Thomas
 
GoEaglesGoSGIO said:
If im a KPP defender id choose North over Eagles for sure. At North he has zero competition and with us he does.
Click to expand...

Depends on how you look at it.

He’s a WA boy l, grew up supporting us until he switched it up to Geelong, we have 2 older KPD, who have both missed games and Busslinger isn’t a true KPD, more an interceptor/tall rebounder.

Absolute no reason we can’t guarantee him a spot in our 22 along side Gov/Barrass in 2025.

That would be more attractive than being the main bloke in North’s team holding down a key spot by yourself with no one else to help you out.
 
Dom sheed pocket said:
A normal contract for years 3-4 is 400-500K for a first rounder.

Assuming Hewett and Ginbey are closer to 500 and the others you mentioned 400K

That’s a combined 1.8m in the cap at the very most, and I probably put a fair bit of mayo on those figures.

We are a mile off our young talent causing us cap issues in the way it has caused GWS issues.

There was an immediate 10% increase in cap for 2023 as CBA had expired in 2022.

On top of that a 12% increase this year and 30% over 5 years.

We are likely going to struggle meeting the 95% cap floor for the next 2 years.
Click to expand...
Sure, but an immediate increase in cap space means the 'average contract' for years 3-4 is no longer relevant. An overall increase means all players will be seeking some part of that, the average salary is bound to go up. Also, Ginbey and Hewitt are young, who knows how their improvement will take shape. They may turn a corner later this year, early next year and demand more.

All I'm saying is I wouldn't be planning on Harley being the only player seeking a pay rise.
 
Obeanie1 said:
Finding new ways to continuing "poking us with a broom stick"" Briz?

That is how you described yourself posting and stirring the pot on here in one of the Lions draft threads wasn't it?:think::poov1::poov1:
Click to expand...
That is so far from the truth, you should be ashamed. Genuinely. No p!ss take comment.

I specifically replied to you, on the Lions forum, when you dropped in, that some, not all, some of my posts specifically mentioning the academy/academies is me poking you, and just you, with a stick, AFTER you have had a whinge about them here.

Because you sook about them all the freaking time.
Obeanie1 said:
Did they say how Brisbane just aren't good enough to win a flag ATM but the academy will sort that out soon enough? Something....something along those lines I presume.
Click to expand...
No it was about our age profile, and such a dip in performance has often been a precursor to a side winning a flag. Then referenced Hawthorn, Geelong, Melbourne and Tigers all experiencing such a year before winning a flag.

Then mentioned we’ll get players back from long term injury next year, and we’ll get Levi.

Said discussion about our flag window ending is premature.
Obeanie1 said:
I'm a great believer in karma. Lions 0 - 3 and an internal player bust up looks like it's coming to roost for Lions fans such as yourself. Looks like that flag window is closing.
Click to expand...
 

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briztoon said:
That is so far from the truth, you should be ashamed. Genuinely. No p!ss take comment.

I specifically replied to you, on the Lions forum, when you dropped in, that some, not all, some of my posts specifically mentioning the academy/academies is me poking you, and just you, with a stick, AFTER you have had a whinge about them here.

Because you sook about them all the freaking time.

No it was about our age profile, and such a dip in performance has often been a precursor to a side winning a flag. Then referenced Hawthorn, Geelong, Melbourne and Tigers all experiencing such a year before winning a flag.

Then mentioned we’ll get players back from long term injury next year, and we’ll get Levi.

Said discussion about our flag window ending is premature.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I skipped over the Lions discussion.

The first thing that comes to mind for me is unlike Geelong & Melbourne, Brisbane is no longer a young and naive group needing finals experience to learn how to win, and unlike the Tigers Brisbane didn’t have a busy off season addressing areas of need.

I should listen before commenting but Lions feel a bit more like Crows, or even maybe us if we had come out on the wrong end of 2018.
 
FKASC said:
I don’t think mccluggage is going to help us that much. He’s shown he’s a bit of a downhill skiier and I don’t rate his kicking under pressure (especially for goal). I think we’d bring out the worst in him given where we’re at.
Click to expand...

I don't think he'd be that great in his current role with the lions. I do however think he would be absolutely what we need from HB up to the forward 50. He is shit kicking for goal and it's all in his head however he is one of the best field kicks in the game with penetration, has great vision, is a good size and good athletically.

To me it's about list balance into the future. The players we have on the list already including the youngsters have shown potential AFL roles that I can see for them.

These players being Reid, Hewett, Ginbey, Long, Barnett, Maric, Jamieson (bit of a stretch calling him a youngster but for a key back learning he definitely is) and Hough. Brockman is a maybe.

Archer Reid has shown nothing and is unlikely to do so at AFL level for a few years. He had a very up and down draft year and wasn't great as a forward. I wish him all the best in turning into a McKay type key forward but it's very much a long shot. He was drafted on his athleticism, height and his field kicking is quite good for his size. TBH I see a key defender in the making there, not a key forward.

Burgiel whilst I rate him incredibly highly has so far also shown nothing at AFL level and is permanently injured. I do think he is the third most talented youngster on the list however.

Bazzo is coming from a ways back but the issue I see is while he has decent skills for a third tall defender against modern key forwards he doesn't play above his size. Hough has grown and moving forward (yes 3-4 years) I only see a place for one of the two in the size at once. That not to say he can't progress rapidly but I don't see him overtaking Hough.

The first year players past Harley are unknown quantities and no guarantee to even be roleplayers but again show a few elite traits but will need development. Loch Rawlinson has shown the most so far but his skills can be scrubby and he doesn't have amazing penetration on his kicking either. He is however an absolute terrier and has great attack on the ball and man.

Dewar is a maybe and is coming forward as a player very quickly. But we will need him to put it all together in the next 24 months and show he is fit for a HF role long term.

Culley is a huge maybe and does have talent but he is slow. He has a decent top speed but his first few steps in particular are slow. He reads the ball very well coming into the forward line and can kick goals but I only see him making it as an inside mid. Again average skills.

Chesser hasn't shown that he can make it in any particular role and best of luck to him but he's coming from a long way back. Again right attitude, great athletic profile but we are starting to get to Venables levels of missed development and that means he might not ever lock down a role, particularly one that the team needs.

Of the youngsters the only ones I would say have really good field kicking are Reid (but first he needs to find the time and space), Burgiel, Maric and Dewar.

The club is so short on speed, running ability and kicking skills that it needs to be a huge focus going forward.

Jamieson was my cut off age on youngsters and the only reason that age was used was because he is developing as a KPD.

The first year players haven't had enough time but outside of that any player I haven't listed is either pure delist fodder or their skillset (Luke Edwards) imo doesn't line up with how the game is progressing to be able to make it in a good side.

Anyone Cole's age or above needs to be replaced age wise before we are a potentially challenging side. Even for finals imo. Outside of Allen there are a few roleplayers in the age group in between but nothing that screams best 22 in a good side.

I struggle to see us getting free agents over the line but i'd sure as shit rather throw 1.5 mill a year at McLuggage than throw similar money at English.

The club needs to churn and burn and still turnover 20 players in the next 3 years at least plus start to replace the retiring players. This hole is so deep it is going to take a very long time to come out of, even with some AFL assistance.
 
WCE_phil said:
I don't think he'd be that great in his current role with the lions. I do however think he would be absolutely what we need from HB up to the forward 50. He is s**t kicking for goal and it's all in his head however he is one of the best field kicks in the game with penetration, has great vision, is a good size and good athletically.

To me it's about list balance into the future. The players we have on the list already including the youngsters have shown potential AFL roles that I can see for them.

These players being Reid, Hewett, Ginbey, Long, Barnett, Maric, Jamieson (bit of a stretch calling him a youngster but for a key back learning he definitely is) and Hough. Brockman is a maybe.

Archer Reid has shown nothing and is unlikely to do so at AFL level for a few years. He had a very up and down draft year and wasn't great as a forward. I wish him all the best in turning into a McKay type key forward but it's very much a long shot. He was drafted on his athleticism, height and his field kicking is quite good for his size. TBH I see a key defender in the making there, not a key forward.

Burgiel whilst I rate him incredibly highly has so far also shown nothing at AFL level and is permanently injured. I do think he is the third most talented youngster on the list however.

Bazzo is coming from a ways back but the issue I see is while he has decent skills for a third tall defender against modern key forwards he doesn't play above his size. Hough has grown and moving forward (yes 3-4 years) I only see a place for one of the two in the size at once. That not to say he can't progress rapidly but I don't see him overtaking Hough.

The first year players past Harley are unknown quantities and no guarantee to even be roleplayers but again show a few elite traits but will need development. Loch Rawlinson has shown the most so far but his skills can be scrubby and he doesn't have amazing penetration on his kicking either. He is however an absolute terrier and has great attack on the ball and man.

Dewar is a maybe and is coming forward as a player very quickly. But we will need him to put it all together in the next 24 months and show he is fit for a HF role long term.

Culley is a huge maybe and does have talent but he is slow. He has a decent top speed but his first few steps in particular are slow. He reads the ball very well coming into the forward line and can kick goals but I only see him making it as an inside mid. Again average skills.

Chesser hasn't shown that he can make it in any particular role and best of luck to him but he's coming from a long way back. Again right attitude, great athletic profile but we are starting to get to Venables levels of missed development and that means he might not ever lock down a role, particularly one that the team needs.

Of the youngsters the only ones I would say have really good field kicking are Reid (but first he needs to find the time and space), Burgiel, Maric and Dewar.

The club is so short on speed, running ability and kicking skills that it needs to be a huge focus going forward.

Jamieson was my cut off age on youngsters and the only reason that age was used was because he is developing as a KPD.

The first year players haven't had enough time but outside of that any player I haven't listed is either pure delist fodder or their skillset (Luke Edwards) imo doesn't line up with how the game is progressing to be able to make it in a good side.

Anyone Cole's age or above needs to be replaced age wise before we are a potentially challenging side. Even for finals imo. Outside of Allen there are a few roleplayers in the age group in between but nothing that screams best 22 in a good side.

I struggle to see us getting free agents over the line but i'd sure as s**t rather throw 1.5 mill a year at McLuggage than throw similar money at English.

The club needs to churn and burn and still turnover 20 players in the next 3 years at least plus start to replace the retiring players. This hole is so deep it is going to take a very long time to come out of, even with some AFL assistance.
Click to expand...
Good stuff. I wonder where Mari(C) (auto correct demand) will fit in - up, back or wing as some suggest.
Looking no further than this weekend, I remain scared by our SCG game last year. I paid $'s for good seats. Seared into my retina is the repeated kick ins by Blakey to a free defender, Blakey would would then run past the receiver for a hand ball and deliver with run to the Swans half forward. We know it will happen again but who could prevent negate it? We shouldn't be beaten by what we know.
 
We need to beat what BL and a Vic team like St Kilda will throw at McLuggage. 6 years 9 Mil with the following structure.

2025 - 2mil
2026 - 2mil
2027 - 2mil
2028 - 1mil
2029 - 1mil
2030 - 1mil

I too would much rather we throw a massive offer at someone like McLuggage than English.
 
SumaGodCoach said:
We need to beat what BL and a Vic team like St Kilda will throw at McLuggage. 6 years 9 Mil with the following structure.

2025 - 2mil
2026 - 2mil
2027 - 2mil
2028 - 1mil
2029 - 1mil
2030 - 1mil

I too would much rather we throw a massive offer at someone like McLuggage than English.
Click to expand...

I think everyone including the club would prefer McLuggage but there is just no way a Victorian would come to play in Perth, especially with us. Why on earth would he do it. Given all clubs are playing with the same salary cap, he will get the same money from a club in Victoria 100%.

English is unusual because he is from here and cannot go to the Dockers given Jackson and Darcy. I do not think that English is a need, and we would ideally spend the money elsewhere. But I hate to break it to some people, we are not attracting anyone half decent for a good 3 years. Players will be able to get equivalent money to whatever we offer and not have to play in the worst side in the league, and invariable get a choice to go home to Victoria. If the player is from WA, 10/10 times they will pick the Dockers, if the Dockers want them. Its the hard truth that we are not going to be able to get anyone half decent for a good while. If by some miracle Warner left the Swans and chose us, then we can make that work. But for the time being, we cannot look a gift horse in the mouth in English, if he comes at no trade cost.

We can speculate about other potential good free agents over the next few years all we like but they just aint coming.
 
TOA. said:
I think everyone including the club would prefer McLuggage but there is just no way a Victorian would come to play in Perth, especially with us. Why on earth would he do it. Given all clubs are playing with the same salary cap, he will get the same money from a club in Victoria 100%.

English is unusual because he is from here and cannot go to the Dockers given Jackson and Darcy. I do not think that English is a need, and we would ideally spend the money elsewhere. But I hate to break it to some people, we are not attracting anyone half decent for a good 3 years. Players will be able to get equivalent money to whatever we offer and not have to play in the worst side in the league, and invariable get a choice to go home to Victoria. If the player is from WA, 10/10 times they will pick the Dockers, if the Dockers want them. Its the hard truth that we are not going to be able to get anyone half decent for a good while. If by some miracle Warner left the Swans and chose us, then we can make that work. But for the time being, we cannot look a gift horse in the mouth in English, if he comes at no trade cost.

We can speculate about other potential good free agents over the next few years all we like but they just aint coming.
Click to expand...
Not with that attitude.

Look, travel will always be the biggest factor, but the truth is that Perth is often cited as a great place to live, Melbourne and Sydney are increasingly being seen as difficult places to live. We can offer some of the best weather in the world, best beaches, best weekend getaways, the advantages of a big city without the disadvantages of a huge city. We can get these kids in a mansion for the price of a 4x2 in the burbs of Melbourne, get 'em a jet ski or boat. If we can't sell Perth, we aren't trying hard enough. There's a reason a lot of the kids that come over end up staying.
 
I hope it's 2 years for Duggan, 3 at the absolute outside. If there's anything we should have learnt from the peaks and troughs of contending and competing in the AFL, it's that our list hits a cliff once players approach the age of 30.

We need the established talent to nurture the youth and give us a hard edge but we are going to have to prioritise quality youth even when our window opens, and much sooner as it is shutting.

That will mean less loyalty and long term deals for the boys, more of a pragmatic list approach, and potentially taking the deals for some of our ready made players if it's unrealistic to expect them to be on our list when we're competing next.
 
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