List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

[Keys]

The Contracts Thread

Current contract status (Updated 26/6/24) : Total 45 Players - Main List (37) Rookie List (6) Cat B (2) Contracted to 2027 (3) : Tom Barrass (8/10/95) - Signed a 5 year extension (2023-27) on an existing contract due to expire 2022 in December 2021 Reuben Ginbey (10/9/04) - Signed a 3 year...

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[squashface]

The fact Cadman is still developing is part of my point.
I suspect no team in the AFL thinks Ginbey has more trade value than Cadman (not even WCE).
Ginbey's doing okay, but unfortunately he hasn't shown much development against his pre-draft concerns thus far, and thus his value has decreased rather than increased. Still looks like an athlete who plays football rather than a footballer.

Ginbey is a funny one - for the record I think he is tracking fine. But for someone his size he should be absolutely smashing packs and ripping it out of congestion - he's a second year player but bigger and faster than most of his opponents.

Instead he seems to play very timidly and jogs around chasing his opponent with low intensity.

 

[bzparkes]

Ginbey is a funny one - for the record I think he is tracking fine. But for someone his size he should be absolutely smashing packs and ripping it out of congestion - he's a second year player but bigger and faster than most of his opponents.

Instead he seems to play very timidly and jogs around chasing his opponent with low intensity.

Probably playing too much to instruction.

From his presser the other week, he's trying to play more aggressively like Reid, but for blokes who are simply used to playing to whatever the coach says and not off their own instincts, it's a difficult mindset change to have.

Reid can due it because he's always been a BSD. Ginbey seems to be a nice lad who just wants to do the team thing, even if the team thing is actually for him to go hell for leather and dominate with his superior physical stature.

If that's different from what's he's being coached, it'll probably be difficult for him to just go "**** it" and do what he thinks is best.

 

[FKASC]

Ginbey is a funny one - for the record I think he is tracking fine. But for someone his size he should be absolutely smashing packs and ripping it out of congestion - he's a second year player but bigger and faster than most of his opponents.

Instead he seems to play very timidly and jogs around chasing his opponent with low intensity.

I’d be happy enough with just not fumbling easy uncontested ground balls so often.

 

[chaddy22]

We need to look for a proper ruckman. Flynn and Bwilliams are not doing the job. Not getting the hit outs and invisible around the ground. We have two ways to go. Look for a ruckman who isn't getting a game like Liam Reidy and unlikely to get a game at the dockers. Seems to dominate the hit outs at Wafl level.
Or do we try and get Time English.A lot are not keen as he doesn't dominate hit outs but his around the ground and link up is so much better than what we got.

 

[pantskyle]

We were a better team without Flynn, don't rate him much at all to be honest.

 

[MrKennedy17]

I didnt realise kicking for goal was the only attribute needed to be a big bodied mid.

Curtin is a VERY different player to Culley

Yea i know he is far more denfensive, hence him playing in the backline. He has a slow loping kick like a ruckman, not a midfielder, probably he is nearly 200cm tall. He is will certainly not make it as a midfielder in the AFL.

 

[Shueygod]

6 of the 8 players that went before him in the draft. Plus Hollands, Fletcher, Michalanney and Weddle.

They might not all be getting the same fantasy points or what ever metrics you are using to rate Ginbey, and some don’t get a game every week, but they all perform better in the different roles they play, have demonstrated better skills than Ginbey, and know how to actually play the game.

Joke of an opinion, including Hollands proves to me you’re not actually serious.

 

[Tugga27]

Bring in Baker and Bailey Smith on the cheap. at least they'll be entertaining

Sent from my SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

How do you reckon we could get them "on the cheap"?

 

[KERRPOW]

How do you reckon we could get them "on the cheap"?

free bags

 

[SumaGodCoach]

Bring in Baker and Bailey Smith on the cheap. at least they'll be entertaining

Sent from my SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Bailey Smith is afraid of black swans and topped up long macs, and the only person in his life willing and able to protect him from these things is his Mother. So unless we can convince her to come over there's no chance.

 

[ziad]

I’d be happy enough with just not fumbling easy uncontested ground balls so often.

Ginbey is big but not a good footballer. Lacks skill, innate composure and speed. I hope he develops but his best so far is photo ops in cafes pre season. One of many that are over rated.

 

[Lazzas]

Dattoli Vic Metro Draft range?

 

[eaglevision]

Dattoli Vic Metro Draft range?

I reckon 30-40 but he’s had a couple of pretty good champs games so if that continues for CTL season he may rise further.

 

[JackOutback]

Ginbey is a funny one - for the record I think he is tracking fine. But for someone his size he should be absolutely smashing packs and ripping it out of congestion - he's a second year player but bigger and faster than most of his opponents.

Instead he seems to play very timidly and jogs around chasing his opponent with low intensity.

Ginbey might look big, but he’s still a kid playing against men and, in the middle, men who are among the best in the league. He still needs a year or two and some experience to crash through or evade these kinds of players.

 

[noobermensch]

Not quite as polished as previous Champs performances for Bo Allan, but he cracked in as hard as ever and the heavy ground probably suited his game. He doesn't always win the footy at stoppage but his physicality is influential, applying defensive pressure or clearing space for his teammates to operate. When he gets the opportunity to put the peddle down in space few can stay with him, making him an exciting prospect at his size.

 

[Avalor]

We were a better team without Flynn, don't rate him much at all to be honest.

Too slow and cumbersome, not agile enough. De Koning is the prototype for a ruckman nowadays.

 

[briztoon]

Joke of an opinion, including Hollands proves to me you’re not actually serious.

You asked for better performing players.

Hollands plays a different role in his team, but he performs that role at a higher level than what Ginbey performs his role. And as I mentioned, he knows how to play that role and has demonstrated he has footy IQ.

As someone who follows the draft, I’ve never been high on Ginbey. That hasn’t changed at AFL level.

I’m not criticising or blaming him for how West Coast are performing. It’s hard for any young player to be put in such a position and situation.

I just haven’t seen anything from Ginbey to suggest he’s anything other than a well built athlete, with a good work ethic, trying to learn how to play football.

Ideally he would be learning in a reserve team for a couple of years, before being asked to contribute at senior level.

And my opinion is pretty similar to Phil’s.

Ginbey could be anything, but he could also be just a roleplayer. He's currently second to the ball in almost all contested situations and if he is first to the ball he isn't clean. Needs to work on his pickups at speed. We do know he will do his absolute best to get to the peak of his ability. Not sure he's the centre ball bull we are looking for but does look neater playing from defence. His marking is better than I thought.

 

[Lazzas]

Ginbey is a funny one - for the record I think he is tracking fine. But for someone his size he should be absolutely smashing packs and ripping it out of congestion - he's a second year player but bigger and faster than most of his opponents.

Instead he seems to play very timidly and jogs around chasing his opponent with low intensity.

He is a hard worker, fast, strong however is too reactivate to what's happening in the play instead of making the play.

 

[WCE_phil]

Ginbey's issue is plain and simple and it's been the issue from day dot. He doesn't read the play at stoppage well enough. So he's either flat footed, not in the right place or not close enough to his man. A lot of this is innate, it is very rare to learn. Yeo is an example of learning it through the middle but he was always elite at reading the play coming at him from defence.

He's developing his running game and getting the ball on the outside.

His kicking as stated for years is average. He has a good action but he's just an average kick. As he develops he will get better with his decision making, which will make his kicking look better but it'll never be amazing.

He's second to the ball almost all the time.

He's not clean on the pickup, fumbles the ball and is very much 'two touch'.

If he's not flat footed he has a great burst of speed however his top speed is lower than I thought predraft.

His peak potentially is a bigger bodied Scott Selwood

Scott Selwood

Age

34

Ht

186cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.1

5star

K

8.8

3star

HB

10.3

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

3.7

5star

No current season stats available

D

12.0

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

6.8

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.2

3star

and while he's been thrown in the deep end and shouldn't be having to play as an inside mid as a second year player his weaknesses are getting found out. As stated before he tries his guts out, but it all needs to click at some stage or we need to start looking at using him in a different role as he is better overhead than I thought and could well be a medium defender in the future.

The club is looking very, very thin on the inside and while this years draft looks very solid all the way to 30, there doesn't scream a group of 3-4 players that look super high end.

I would be looking to trade down for multiple picks or trying to trade in an elite young talented mid with pick 2/3. The club does need an absolute elite user from defence and while it might not be a popular opinion and i'm just watching games and videos over here in the warmth I think FOS is that player at the next level.

Even if academy rules aren't changed this year I don't think we'll have any issue securing Champion. He's looking more a late pick or rookie imo.

Also I don't want the club to trade in Curtin from the Crows unless its for a swap of first rounders and a future second. I rate Busslinger higher and don't think Curtin can be that big bodied mid at the next level which is imo the only reason you would trade a high end pick for him. From defence for someone who as a junior showed some elite kicking, the more the pressure went up the more he went for safer options and handballs.

The clubs needs an assistance package, things are going to get worse before they get better.

 

[Shueygod]

You asked for better performing players.

Hollands plays a different role in his team, but he performs that role at a higher level than what Ginbey performs his role. And as I mentioned, he knows how to play that role and has demonstrated he has footy IQ.

As someone who follows the draft, I’ve never been high on Ginbey. That hasn’t changed at AFL level.

I’m not criticising or blaming him for how West Coast are performing. It’s hard for any young player to be put in such a position and situation.

I just haven’t seen anything from Ginbey to suggest he’s anything other than a well built athlete, with a good work ethic, trying to learn how to play football.

Ideally he would be learning in a reserve team for a couple of years, before being asked to contribute at senior level.

And my opinion is pretty similar to Phil’s.

Extremely off the mark with this mate, I asked for better performing players and you listed blokes barely getting the ball and getting dropped.

The actual players that have performed better are Sheezel, Ashcroft, Wardlaw, Weddle and Michalanney, Mackenzie would be close.

What you are actually doing is allowing your pre draft opinions cloud your views on their performance.

Absolute pisstake to suggest Hollande is performing his role to a higher level than Ginbey.

His skills aren’t even poor, they certainly aren’t at the level of Tsatas. He has the ability to get good penetration in his kicking which if he is to become an inside mid is just about all you need.

This suggestion he’s “trying to learn football” is such a crock of shit. He’s the 4th ranked player for his age, averaging 16 disposals a game at 19.

Reckon everyone here buys far too much into his build, doesn’t necessarily mean he has the strength yet to be competing with seasoned professionals.

 

[ziad]

Ginbey might look big, but he’s still a kid playing against men and, in the middle, men who are among the best in the league. He still needs a year or two and some experience to crash through or evade these kinds of players.

That's not his problem unfortunately - he isn't an instinctive footy player and is slow. That will never change.

 

[Shueygod]

Ginbey's issue is plain and simple and it's been the issue from day dot. He doesn't read the play at stoppage well enough. So he's either flat footed, not in the right place or not close enough to his man. A lot of this is innate, it is very rare to learn. Yeo is an example of learning it through the middle but he was always elite at reading the play coming at him from defence.

He's developing his running game and getting the ball on the outside.

His kicking as stated for years is average. He has a good action but he's just an average kick. As he develops he will get better with his decision making, which will make his kicking look better but it'll never be amazing.

He's second to the ball almost all the time.

He's not clean on the pickup, fumbles the ball and is very much 'two touch'.

If he's not flat footed he has a great burst of speed however his top speed is lower than I thought predraft.

His peak potentially is a bigger bodied Scott Selwood and while he's been thrown in the deep end and shouldn't be having to play as an inside mid as a second year player his weaknesses are getting found out. As stated before he tries his guts out, but it all needs to click at some stage or we need to start looking at using him in a different role as he is better overhead than I thought and could well be a medium defender in the future.

The club is looking very, very thin on the inside and while this years draft looks very solid all the way to 30, there doesn't scream a group of 3-4 players that look super high end.

I would be looking to trade down for multiple picks or trying to trade in an elite young talented mid with pick 2/3. The club does need an absolute elite user from defence and while it might not be a popular opinion and i'm just watching games and videos over here in the warmth I think FOS is that player at the next level.

Even if academy rules aren't changed this year I don't think we'll have any issue securing Champion. He's looking more a late pick or rookie imo.

Also I don't want the club to trade in Curtin from the Crows unless its for a swap of first rounders and a future second. I rate Busslinger higher and don't think Curtin can be that big bodied mid at the next level which is imo the only reason you would trade a high end pick for him. From defence for someone who as a junior showed some elite kicking, the more the pressure went up the more he went for safer options and handballs.

The clubs needs an assistance package, things are going to get worse before they get better.

Disagree completely with it being rare to learn, don’t think he’ll ever be the type to hit the stoppage at pace and burst through a contest but there’s no reason he can’t get to the level of Dunkley for example.

Agree that he isn’t clean at the moment which is disappointing, but this is just about the easiest thing to fix in a players game.

The other part of his game he needs to work on is his handballing, it’s too inconsistent currently but again these are all things that can easily improve in time.

 

[Shueygod]

That's not his problem unfortunately - he isn't an instinctive footy player and is slow. That will never change.

He isn’t slow at all.

 

[WCE_phil]

Disagree completely with it being rare to learn, don’t think he’ll ever be the type to hit the stoppage at pace and burst through a contest but there’s no reason he can’t get to the level of Dunkley for example.

Agree that he isn’t clean at the moment which is disappointing, but this is just about the easiest thing to fix in a players game.

The other part of his game he needs to work on is his handballing, it’s too inconsistent currently but again these are all things that can easily improve in time.

Personally have to disagree on this. It is very hard to teach, almost all kids tend to either be clean off the deck by the time they reach U18 level or they aren't.

He's a great kid but I still hold firm on my opinions that haven't changed in 3 years. The only thing he has shown that has exceeded my expectation is he's a better mark than I thought.

 

[KERRPOW]

Agree that he isn’t clean at the moment which is disappointing, but this is just about the easiest thing to fix in a players game.

was it Michael braun that practiced over and over again picking up the loose ball as he was initially a bit fumbly?