List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

[Keys]

The Contracts Thread

Current contract status (Updated 26/6/24) : Total 45 Players - Main List (37) Rookie List (6) Cat B (2) Contracted to 2027 (3) : Tom Barrass (8/10/95) - Signed a 5 year extension (2023-27) on an existing contract due to expire 2022 in December 2021 Reuben Ginbey (10/9/04) - Signed a 3 year...

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[Icanwalk]

We were a better team without Flynn, don't rate him much at all to be honest.

We can't carry both Flynn and Bailey in the same side. I assumed it was just a stopgap measure until Flynn increased his TOG, but seeing this odd obsession with talls, maybe they seriously intend to play both long-term given their different "complimentary" ruck attributes (Bailey for impact centre bounces with his athleticism and follow-up and Flynn in the attritional stoppages around the ground with his size and ruck nous). I just can't wrap my head around this as it's all predicated on the reality-defying belief that Bailey can actually play up forward.

Flynn has indeed been underwhelming since returning, but he is an upgrade on the walking disaster that is Bailey Williams, which is as low of a bar as you could possibly set for a first ruck. We really need Barnett to develop otherwise back on the ruck merry-go-round we go. I hope we are in the ear of one of the two Freo rucks in waiting (Reidy and Knobel).

 

[Shueygod]

Personally have to disagree on this. It is very hard to teach, almost all kids tend to either be clean off the deck by the time they reach U18 level or they aren't.

He's a great kid but I still hold firm on my opinions that haven't changed in 3 years. The only thing he has shown that has exceeded my expectation is he's a better mark than I thought.

Guess we’ll have to agree to disagree, I reckon it was/is just about the most repeated skill at WAFL training and the improvement across the board is very obvious.

Repeat anything 100,000 times and you’re going to get pretty good at it.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Ugly more than unorthodox.

His lack of ground agility will determine his position at AFL level. He's exactly the type of player West Coast doesn't need.

We need running midfielders, the gap in our best 22 is the ability to transition from inside to out and from back to front and visa versa.

Not with you on this one. I watched him closely on Saturday and he is a running half back. He is a decent kick but elite by hand. He reads the play very well and impacts most contests he goes to. If you want a running back like Jones or Duggan, welcome to the turnover world.

We do need mids and there are loads to get in this year's draft. What we need is to get creative with our F1. Yes, I realise it is likely to be a top 3 pick but this year we need to find a club that wants our F1. Only 2 real options for me are Freo and Suns.

Freo are likely to end up with something like 8/9, 11 and 16. I would offer them our F2 and 23 for 8, 11 and 16 and agree to let them be the sole bidders on Warner and Logan.

Go to the draft this year with 2/3, 8/9, 11 and 16. Get the 2 best mids at 2/3 and 8/9 (preferable one who is more an outside leaning role), Travaglia at 11 and best available or needs at 16. I'd also be OK at getting Freo's first 2 picks for a straight swap with our F1 and go to the draft with 2/3, 8/9, 11 and 23.

Who knows what the Suns will do and expect from their 2 picks. They are also looking to be at the 8/9 and 10/11 level so they are an option but I doubt we get a deal with them.

 

[Icanwalk]

Guess we’ll have to agree to disagree, I reckon it was/is just about the most repeated skill at WAFL training and the improvement across the board is very obvious.

Repeat anything 100,000 times and you’re going to get pretty good at it.

Would you say the same applies for kicking?

Sure, you can get "pretty good at it", but players are not operating in a vaccuum, they are competing against elite players (in this case, midfielders who typically already have elite hands dating back to junior days, and also practice it every day) in the heat of the game. They must execute that "learned, practiced and unnatural" skill in split seconds under extreme pressure. In Ginbey's case, the issue is exacerbated because he is also reactive at the contest, second to almost every ball, and lacks composure in possesion. He is coming from a long way back. It is unreasonable to think he can suddenly become elite in this facet of the game.

I can practice jazz scales 100,000 times but it doesn't mean I can play in the Miles Davis Quintet.

 

[Icanwalk]

Probably playing too much to instruction.

From his presser the other week, he's trying to play more aggressively like Reid, but for blokes who are simply used to playing to whatever the coach says and not off their own instincts, it's a difficult mindset change to have.

Reid can due it because he's always been a BSD. Ginbey seems to be a nice lad who just wants to do the team thing, even if the team thing is actually for him to go hell for leather and dominate with his superior physical stature.

If that's different from what's he's being coached, it'll probably be difficult for him to just go "**** it" and do what he thinks is best.

I know this board is engaging in a collective Simmo pile-on, but this is a long bow.

Ginbey has never shown any proficiency in this facet of the game, not even as a junior. Moreover, it has always been a weakness in his game, and his performances in the AFL have done nothing to dispel this perception.

Sometimes the simplest explanations are the best ones.

 

[bzparkes]

I know this board is engaging in a collective Simmo pile-on, but this is a long bow.

Ginbey has never shown any proficiency in this facet of the game, not even as a junior. Moreover, it has always been a weakness in his game, and his performances in the AFL have done nothing to dispel this perception.

Sometimes the simplest explanations are the best ones.

Maybe.

He was more of a defender in U18s, so maybe that's indeed his calling, a la Sheppard.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Any salary dump trades available ala Jack Bowes

12

Jack Bowes

Age

26

Ht

189cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.3

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

318.1

4star

D

18.0

4star

K

11.8

5star

HB

6.3

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.1

2star

MG

318.1

4star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.4

4star

(except without the insanity of that deal)

Would happily take on Luke Parker

26

Luke Parker

Age

31

Ht

183cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.2

5star

K

12.6

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

3.8

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.8

5star

D

22.1

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

9.9

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

5.0

5star

CL

5.5

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

11.4

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

8.0

5star

CL

5.2

5star

if we got a pick 19 back. Would happily take on Rory Atkins

2

Rory Atkins

Age

29

Ht

185cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.9

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

7.9

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

1.9

4star

MG

367.4

5star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

0.3

1star

T

2.7

4star

MG

147.7

3star

D

14.2

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.2

3star

MG

217.8

4star

if we get something back. Would happily take on Caleb Daniels, would happily take on Jack Macrae. Would happily take on pick 28 +31 from Gold Coast + Rory Atkins

2

Rory Atkins

Age

29

Ht

185cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.9

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

7.9

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

1.9

4star

MG

367.4

5star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

0.3

1star

T

2.7

4star

MG

147.7

3star

D

14.2

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.2

3star

MG

217.8

4star

for say Future 2nd rounder + pick 59

Atkins would waltz into our best 22 too

 

[noobermensch]

Not Sid's highest possession game, but he was as explosive and exciting as we've seen him since his return from injury. There were a few passages of play here that not many in this draft class would be capable of, showcasing his balance, acceleration, agility and change of direction. His application to the defensive side of the game was much improved as well this week, with pressure acts and interceptions a feature.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Guess we’ll have to agree to disagree, I reckon it was/is just about the most repeated skill at WAFL training and the improvement across the board is very obvious.

Repeat anything 100,000 times and you’re going to get pretty good at it.

I should tell my wife about this trick

 

[Shueygod]

Would you say the same applies for kicking?

Sure, you can get "pretty good at it", but players are not operating in a vaccuum, they are competing against elite players (in this case, midfielders who typically already have elite hands dating back to junior days, and also practice it every day) in the heat of the game. They must execute that "learned, practiced and unnatural" skill in split seconds under extreme pressure. In Ginbey's case, the issue is exacerbated because he is also reactive at the contest, second to almost every ball, and lacks composure in possesion. He is coming from a long way back. It is unreasonable to think he can suddenly become elite in this facet of the game.

I can practice jazz scales 100,000 times but it doesn't mean I can play in the Miles Davis Quintet.

Kicking is far more mechanic and technique based, some one like Tsatas can practice all he likes but will never be a good kick with unless he fixes his action.

I think in terms of cleanliness below the knees there’s a level where improvement starts to have minimal gain.

Say for example he is able to reach a level where he is one touch 90/100 ground balls at full pace whereas Reid would be at 98/100, in a game situation this difference would be the equivalent of 1 or 2 contests.

 

[pantskyle]

Eagles loved Ginbeys leadership abilities, absolutely a great kid, once he finds his voice on the field we'll see confidence grow elsewhere. He is doing perfectly fine for a second year player.

 

[bzparkes]

Eagles loved Ginbeys leadership abilities, absolutely a great kid, once he finds his voice on the field we'll see confidence grow elsewhere. He is doing perfectly fine for a second year player.

People think every top 10 draftee needs to be a Sheezel/Daicos.

Reality is that those types are extremely rare.

 

[JackOutback]

People think every top 10 draftee needs to be a Sheezel/Daicos.

Reality is that those types are extremely rare.

And we did get one anyway, in Reid.

 

[bzparkes]

And we did get one anyway, in Reid.

Yep but they're very much the exception and people around here think they're th norm.

 

[Elite Pete]

Need a straight mid this year. No swing at the Mid/Fwd or HBF/Mid.

Great draft for it to happen. Fair chance we end up with pick 2 and hopefully get FOS. A few might try and play the I don’t want to move interstate with a big Vic club right behind us or in front.

 

[ziad]

People think every top 10 draftee needs to be a Sheezel/Daicos.

Reality is that those types are extremely rare.

They are rare - that's why you never trade down or split.

 

[Hook461123]

People think every top 10 draftee needs to be a Sheezel/Daicos.

Reality is that those types are extremely rare.

They don't need to be a top 5 player in the AFL but we do need to hit on our top 10 picks since they have been so rare.
Doesn't need to be a superstar but at least a very good player. Ideally Ginbey can be one of those two way mids like Rowbottom, Durham, Dunkley, Ward type who can be defensive but still contribute at winning the ball.
He is a long way from that atm. He has shown glimpses a couple of times this year but hasn't put a full game together yet. For the fittest, fastest bloke on the list he sure does fade out of games a lot.
I still have hope for him but I don't think he's going to be a star.

 

[Schtinker]

I should tell my wife about this trick

I don't think she'd appreciate the 10 minutes it'd take.

 

[Schtinker]

I'm still open to splitting Pick 2/3. If we could get a combination of Jagga Smith and Christian Moraes or Draper and Travaglia I'd take it

 

[ArdentEagle]

Ginbey is big but not a good footballer. Lacks skill, innate composure and speed. I hope he develops but his best so far is photo ops in cafes pre season. One of many that are over rated.

For the sake of the side, I hope he "Watermans" you.

 

[Shueygod]

From watching games live Ginbey is a long way from the fittest bloke on the list, there’s a huge difference between a 2km time and match fitness.

He is absolutely gassed towards the end of the 2nd quarter and pretty much the whole 4th every game.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I'm still open to splitting Pick 2/3. If we could get a combination of Jagga Smith and Christian Moraes or Draper and Travaglia I'd take it

What do you want to achieve with this thought ? More top end players or a deeper list cut. Unfortunately the latter can’t happen. Hard to see how more then 6 players get delisted really given everyone with a pulse seeks to have a contract for next year

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

We're really not young enough yet, our squad is still pretty experienced out there. Can't be spending draft capital on Baker and need more picks this year. Trading B Williams and developing J Williams in that fwd/ruck role does seem the obvious option for me.

I don't think we can rely on Flynn to be our main ruck .

He played 33 games in 8 years to bring him to free agency.

He then proceeded to tear a hammy requiring surgery doing nothing but ruck bag work .

Played 4 games then an ankle collapses under his own weight.

His body is completely unreliable. If we sold off bailey williams we would be main rucking Barnett or Jamo .

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

We were a better team without Flynn, don't rate him much at all to be honest.

Not Flynn and bailey williams !

Need only 1 to main ruck and a chop out from jack Williams.

Neither bailey or Flynn are forwards

 

[stallon]

Hollands plays a different role in his team, but he performs that role at a higher level than what Ginbey performs his role. And as I mentioned, he knows how to play that role and has demonstrated he has footy IQ.

Hollands plays for a side thats been top 4 sicne he got drafted, and plays wing. Its a lot easier for a winger in a good side to show anything than a guy trying to play inside mid in a bottom 2-3 team.

Considering the environment both have to deal with, Hollands is not ahead of Ginbey in performance so far