List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Post Season

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Latest news and rumours

Done deals:



  • Zane Trew, Jamaine Jones and Jordyn Baker delisted


Ongoing discussions:




  • List Manager Matt Clarke appeared on Sept 11 Gettable - Click spoiler below for summary
    On the draft: "We predicted that the draft was strong, but it's probably gotten stronger during the year."

    On top end of draft: "You could probably make five or six different choices and get it right."

    On Pick 3: "I reckon there's five (players) around that mark."

    On splitting: "I think you want to hold an early selection if you can. The depth of this group allows you to maybe have some movement there, and see what you can do to bring in more talent in the first 20-25 picks. Easier said than done, and I think most clubs would be saying the same thing. We'll see what we can do."

    On Liam Baker: "He's still yet to make a decision. They're still weighing up a few things. We'd love to get Liam on board from what he offers from a talent and leadership point of view. We understand where we're at as a group, we're rebuilding our group, we need to add some guys in the middle tier to support our young group."

    On Jack Graham: "We've got a number of players that we're speaking to. A bit of a wait and see on that one as well. We'll talk to a number of guys."

    On Shai Bolton: "I think it will be difficult for anybody, really. He's heavily contracted and a high quality player."

    On James Peatling: "He's heavily involved in a finals series at the moment so I don't want to comment too much on it, but I think there's a number of guys that have been playing really good footy this year that could suit what we do and what other clubs do. He's taken his footy to another level this year."

    On Tom Barrass: "We've had an early discussion with Hawthorn about it, they understand where we're at. He's nominated Hawthorn as his ideal destination. We want what we think he's worth, as a genuine key back in the competition that can do what he can do. We're obviously mindful of getting an appropriate deal for West Coast."

    On Tom Clurey: "Maybe (note: sounded very non enthused). We'd probably need some key back depth, whether that's through the draft or trade and free agency."

    On Jack Darling: "We've had initial discussions with his management group about (moving). We're open to talking, as we are with all of our players, but Jack's contracted with us."

    On Liam Ryan: "I expect him to be at West Coast next year, yes." (The most definitive answer of the day by a mile, a non-starter of a talking point.)

    On out of contact players e.g. Rotham, Witherden, Jones: "We're still working through what it looks like from a list point of view, and how many selections we'll want to have, and players that may come in and potentially may go out. You might want to give a coach an opportunity to look at these guys."

    On Harley Reid: "We've had discussions most of the year with his management group. I think it sits in a really good place. We're open to doing really whatever they want to do to be honest. We're really confident in building the right system around Harley, on and off field, to make sure that he's really comfortable, that he's going to play his best footy, and his long term future."

    On Jake Waterman's new deal: "Yep, really close. We're working really closely with his management on that. I expect that we'll have something done pretty soon."

    On Oscar Allen: "We've been talking with Oscar and his manager most of the year on that one. We're going through some stuff at the moment. I think we'll be ok with that one."



Past rumoured targets:
 
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So do I and so we should. They are the most logical picks for us but the question is how to get both. Trading all our Barrass capital and leaving Baker out in the cold or our F1 are the only ways I see us getting pick 6 or 7.
In addition to my post re 3 + F1 above, offer 13 + 26 to the Saints for 8 + 47. They wind up with 7, 13, 26, 27 and we wind up with 6, 8, 23, 29, 47, 63, 68. Give them 23 instead of 26 if they really want to push things.

(All of this assuming 2x F1 for Barrass and one of those to Richmond for Baker)
 
Any indication that the Saints actually want to trade up? Given where their list is at, and the ever changing nature of the top end of this draft, they’re surely much more suited to just using 7 and 8 themselves?
 
In addition to my post re 3 + F1 above, offer 13 + 26 to the Saints for 8 + 47. They wind up with 7, 13, 26, 27 and we wind up with 6, 8, 23, 29, 47, 63, 68. Give them 23 instead of 26 if they really want to push things.

(All of this assuming 2x F1 for Barrass and one of those to Richmond for Baker)
Big call to cash in and split both 3 and F1 but this is definitely the draft to do it. Let’s say we end up doing that, who are your targets with those picks?

Personally I’d rather just target 6 and 41 from GCS for Barrass F1 x 2 (or our F1 if it came to it).
 

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Any indication that the Saints actually want to trade up? Given where their list is at, and the ever changing nature of the top end of this draft, they’re surely much more suited to just using 7 and 8 themselves?
No indication. They are in a sweet spot, I’d be surprised if they trade either of those picks. Would have to be overs, perhaps 8, 27 for 12,14 or 15,16 depending on their targets.

GCS 6 we know is on the market and they are getting increasing frustrated with Richmond.
 
Not sure what all the fuss is over.. we have the upper hand in every situation really.

Our Pick 3: Either take an elite mid or split and take two highly rated kids

Barrass: Shop him around to other Victorian clubs or hold him to his contract

Baker: Either they take pick 26 or just walk him to the psd or get him next year for nothing. He’s un contracted ffs we aren’t obligated to please Richmond

Yes, this
 
What difference does it make if we trade 3 down to 6+18(for example) and use 18 for Baker while keeping what we get for Barrass, vs trading 3 for 6+18 and using stuff from Barrass for Baker?

No difference at all is the answer.

We will more than likely downgrade pick 3 at this stage, and we will more than likely get Baker.

They aren’t the only options. Using 18 or lower shouldn’t need come into it at all
 
How about this view:

12 and 14 means we effectively downgrade 3 to 12 for Liam ******* Baker.

There is no different perspective on this turd of a deal. It's being fueled by VFL media as they can't accept that Baker won't go for overs and hard to believe eagles actually being dumb enough to do such, despite the fear on here.

Carlel can day dream about pick 3 all they want.
No offence but it has been fuelled by your own recruiting manager who declared Baker an early teens pick. It anchored his value. Vic media didn’t say he was worth that. Your club did.

There should be better deals out there than 12+14 however. It’s also not being shut down by your club and has floated out there for 2 days. Usually by now one of many reporters would have got a “no WC are not interested” by now. Vic media may just be putting one and one together and making two.

My point: I agree there is often bias….but in this case they’re being given plenty to go on…
 
No offence but it has been fuelled by your own recruiting manager who declared Baker an early teens pick. It anchored his value. Vic media didn’t say he was worth that. Your club did.

There should be better deals out there than 12+14 however. It’s also not being shut down by your club and has floated out there for 2 days. Usually by now one of many reporters would have got a “no WC are not interested” by now. Vic media may just be putting one and one together and making two.

My point: I agree there is often bias….but in this case they’re being given plenty to go on…

Umm what...

Literally since end of season Ralph , Clarke, Morris etc have been stating this value. So yes vic media did in fact state his worth. In fact when our list manager admitted to such it was a loaded question from said media...

So your categorically wrong there.

But this is besides the point. The point being 12 and 14 is terrible deal when you consider all the context. You guys might be happy with 12 and 14, but it's awful for us.
 
Based on what FOS has come out and said is it fairly safe to say we talked to him and told him we are very keen and that given he hasnt talked to Richmond/North then he knows he is coming our way ?

Whole thing seems weird to me. Why would FOS bring it up if we never spoke to him and had no interest ?
 
Any indication that the Saints actually want to trade up? Given where their list is at, and the ever changing nature of the top end of this draft, they’re surely much more suited to just using 7 and 8 themselves?
You would think keeping pick 3 until draft night would get us the best deal if we wanted to trade it .
 
But this is besides the point. The point being 12 and 14 is terrible deal when you consider all the context. You guys might be happy with 12 and 14, but it's awful for us.
Based on our "ITK" info I'm reading it that we may have an 'in principle ' deal with you guys that allows you to do your trades but it's subject to you not getting a better offer. We have plans B& C in case A falls through.
 

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No offence but it has been fuelled by your own recruiting manager who declared Baker an early teens pick. It anchored his value. Vic media didn’t say he was worth that. Your club did.

There should be better deals out there than 12+14 however. It’s also not being shut down by your club and has floated out there for 2 days. Usually by now one of many reporters would have got a “no WC are not interested” by now. Vic media may just be putting one and one together and making two.

My point: I agree there is often bias….but in this case they’re being given plenty to go on…
Fox Footy was doing articles about how Freo’s 10 or West Coast’s 12 (from Hawthorn) would be the price for Baker, pre finals when Hawthorn’s pick was 12.

Very little to do with anything we’ve said this week, especially when the question is as leading as “is he worth a pick in the teens”.

If they’d asked “is he worth a first rounder” that’s not proof that we think he’s worth pick 3, even if our list manager says yes.
 
No offence but it has been fuelled by your own recruiting manager who declared Baker an early teens pick. It anchored his value. Vic media didn’t say he was worth that. Your club did.

There should be better deals out there than 12+14 however. It’s also not being shut down by your club and has floated out there for 2 days. Usually by now one of many reporters would have got a “no WC are not interested” by now. Vic media may just be putting one and one together and making two.

My point: I agree there is often bias….but in this case they’re being given plenty to go on…
we don't pay our managers to tell the world the detail of our plans. A measured degree to subtleness is applied, well beyond the thinking of morons in the press.
 
Not sure what all the fuss is over.. we have the upper hand in every situation really.

Our Pick 3: Either take an elite mid or split and take two highly rated kids

Barrass: Shop him around to other Victorian clubs or hold him to his contract

Baker: Either they take pick 26 or just walk him to the psd or get him next year for nothing. He’s un contracted ffs we aren’t obligated to please Richmond
Tell that to Matt Clarke please.

The silence is deafening at this point
 
Based on our "ITK" info I'm reading it that we may have an 'in principle ' deal with you guys that allows you to do your trades but it's subject to you not getting a better offer. We have plans B& C in case A falls through.
Of course we will get a better offer.

Not sure how its possible not too

GWS would go in with 15,16 + F1st at the very least
 
Watching this whole trade period so far be like


IMG_5783.gif


There’s a horrible sense of impending doom that we’re about to do something really stupid based solely on speculative media reports and our own negative perceptions, real or imagined, of our trading history. Which it must be said was under different management to who we have now

The only significant thing we’ve done, or more precisely haven’t done, so far is refuse to roll over for a tummy tickle from Hawthorn and accept their lowball offer for Barrass. That should, and has been on this board at least, viewed as a positive

In media land, however, we’ve apparently dropped the ball by not accepting that offer of either pick 14 and an exchange of of our F3 with Hawthorns F2 or possibly just 14 on it’s own

For whatever reason, it’s been determined that we’re the only club that should be accepting whatever is put in front of us for a contracted player when the likes of Richmond are actively encouraged to push for the maximum return for Rioli and Bolton. Plus the contracted Baker because we’ve promised to bring him in

No mention that Hawthorn actively and quite publicly pursued Barrass, offering him a generous contract extension in the process, only to put the bare minimum on the table after having weeks to prepare a trade offer. Then blew up negotiations because they didn’t get their answer inside the first week when they have no other deals to get done

It’s all quite pathetic

Yet the fear of us doing something stupid just won’t go away despite Pyke barely putting a foot wrong since taking over
 
Imagine selling the world to someone to the point that someone buys a house in Melbourne in preparation for the following season only to refuse to pay what's right.

I can't believe what Hawthorn have done to poor Tom.

I'm not so sure about that last line, but it'd be nice if someone in the media would point this out; Hawthorn publicly courted him - in season mind you - and when Hawks throw the toys out of the cot (according to the media) it's us that have screwed them around to the point of them giving in the first week? F*ck off.
 
Fox Footy was doing articles about how Freo’s 10 or West Coast’s 12 (from Hawthorn) would be the price for Baker, pre finals when Hawthorn’s pick was 12.

Very little to do with anything we’ve said this week, especially when the question is as leading as “is he worth a pick in the teens”.

If they’d asked “is he worth a first rounder” that’s not proof that we think he’s worth pick 3, even if our list manager says yes.

It doesnt matter what anyone thinks or says his worth.

Can provide dozens of examples of clubs paying slight unders for players out of contract.

Can provide many examples of clubs paying well under percieved value.

So Richmond nuffies beating their chests about a random throw away comment means nothing. Other than they want exactly what is the perception of his value.

Trades dont work like that everyone. Clubs sometime pay overs like it looks like the Suns will for Rioli due to being under contract. Swings and roundabouts. Thats how trades really work.
 
Hoping if there are discussions of turning pick 3 for 12 and 14, Pyke puts on list management hat, waltzes into the meeting rooms with Carlton and back hands Clarke in the chops.
 
Big call to cash in and split both 3 and F1 but this is definitely the draft to do it. Let’s say we end up doing that, who are your targets with those picks?

Personally I’d rather just target 6 and 41 from GCS for Barrass F1 x 2 (or our F1 if it came to it).
I'd rather not but that seems to be the conversation. 3 for 12 + 14, F1 for something. I'm just throwing up an alternative where we forego the Carlton option. I do get the idea behind cashing our F1 in though as we can't offer it for Warner if we don't have it.

Targets wise, no idea. If we were willing to give up 14 for Baker, we clearly don't want anyone bad enough in that part of the draft. I haven't watched a lot of video but FOS is at the bottom of the list of players I've watched so far.

I'm actually leaning toward keeping 3 at this stage pending watching more video as it gets us one of Smith or Draper, who both look like players that could complement Harley well. They look like they're a tier above the likes of FOS, Reid, Langford, etc. I actually really like the look of Tauru from the limited vision I've seen.
 
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Based on our "ITK" info I'm reading it that we may have an 'in principle ' deal with you guys that allows you to do your trades but it's subject to you not getting a better offer. We have plans B& C in case A falls through.

12 plus 14 and Matt Kennedy agrees to go to Richmond for Baker and we are getting closer.

12 and 14 on their own makes little sense.

Even with a Carrol thrown in. Or an Owies.

12, 14 plus Baker. Close.
 
Watching this whole trade period so far be like


View attachment 2139658


There’s a horrible sense of impending doom that we’re about to do something really stupid based solely on speculative media reports and our own negative perceptions, real or imagined, of our trading history. Which it must be said was under different management to who we have now

The only significant thing we’ve done, or more precisely haven’t done, so far is refuse to roll over for a tummy tickle from Hawthorn and accept their lowball offer for Barrass. That should, and has been on this board at least, viewed as a positive

In media land, however, we’ve apparently dropped the ball by not accepting that offer of either pick 14 and an exchange of of our F3 with Hawthorns F2 or possibly just 14 on it’s own

For whatever reason, it’s been determined that we’re the only club that should be accepting whatever is put in front of us for a contracted player when the likes of Richmond are actively encouraged to push for the maximum return for Rioli and Bolton. Plus the contracted Baker because we’ve promised to bring him in

No mention that Hawthorn actively and quite publicly pursued Barrass, offering him a generous contract extension in the process, only to put the bare minimum on the table after having weeks to prepare a trade offer. Then blew up negotiations because they didn’t get their answer inside the first week when they have no other deals to get done

It’s all quite pathetic

Yet the fear of us doing something stupid just won’t go away despite Pyke barely putting a foot wrong since taking over
Yep couldn’t put it better myself. I need to try and stay away from the socials and this forum for the next few days I reckon
 

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List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Post Season

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