List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R) Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Current contract status (Updated 18/10/24) : Total 39 Players -...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[garlic munchers]

With Robertson, Culley and Ginbey in the middle we’ll end up with three times as many tackles as our usual average.

Would still be s**t, but at least I wouldn’t be able to whinge about tackle numbers

Would half our average losing margin if there was 6 tackles laid per stoppage by these boys before the oppo eventually got it out.

 

[garlic munchers]

I think if we had those guys as mids, we probably only need one of Hough or Chesser to take a wing - the other can provide drive from half back.

Long, I think is the perfect half forward that can go and help the midfield and push back hard to get involved. Maybe, start him at centre bounces for his smarts and the way he reads the play.

Hough is our best long term wing option ATM.

Moves well, reasonable height and a penetrating (albeit a little wayward at times) kick.

 

[chaddy22]

Cripps was 9-10 weeks last week which would have him back around round 20/21, without any further delays.

Goss is he is 4-5 weeks ahead of schedule

 

[DanWCE]

Goss is he is 4-5 weeks ahead of schedule

This must be the case for Gov also. The club's probably sandbagging with their estimates to allow room for the expected setbacks or potentially WAFL time.

Injury report timeframes =/= what we're being told by the coach and others

 

[boondy]

Rowell’s first few games pre injury were better than anything Serong or Young have managed to produce.

Youd take Rowell every day of the week if he kept that form going.

Agree . Rowell pace , power out of stoppage , hard ball grunt is best I have seen in a long time .

 

[thebutterflyeffect]

The problem with Jon Ralph's take on Jackson is that's exactly the type of list management move that rightly or wrongly got us in this mess. Paying overs in draft capital to lure a player into the club instead of taking those picks to the draft and developing our own talent.

From a media perspective, taking our picks to the draft is boring, predictable and vanilla. It also affords the media no trade speculation, endless articles and talking points. So any opinions from the likes of journos you can take with a pinch of salt.

If Jon Ralph cared to consider the list we have and our approach to the last draft he would see it wasn't in fact boring at all. We were involved in the biggest ever multi club pick swap that unearthed two local talents at a period in time where we need to bring in as many high quality juniors as we can, and in a hurry. Selling the farm for a poster boy would have been incredibly reactionary and short sighted and set the club back further.

We'll conduct those moves when our draft capital is depreciating in value and get players to nominate us so there's less wriggle room for the other club.

Don't think the Jackson is a like for like. Fremantle have been drafting for an extended period of time and could afford to forego the draft a year or two given their recent drafting history. Plus they went for a very young player who I think was around 4-5 yrs younger than Kelly when he came over. The better like for like is Geelong using those picks to take Cameron. Similar to us they were an ageing list looking for another weapon.

Should we be criticised. Yes because we forego the draft when we have an ageing list for a high end player and we will not be in finals three of the 4 years he's been at the club.

Was it worth the risk at the time is the better question. And yes it was but like all decisions you are accountable to the outcome even if it was a reasonable decision at the time. That's life, it's unfair sometimes.

 

[WCErevival]

I think we are taking Mark McGowan in the MSD

 

[Obeanie1]

Dunno about NN/Winder but Cripps is due back for round 16.

Don't really think they'll sit him out for 9 rounds, if he's good to go.

What's the point rushing him back?

Look at Cole. E was coming back from a major ankle injury. Was supposedly good to go. Re-injured it again and now TBC.

What benefit could we gain playing Cripps in the last few games?

 

[Goroyals22]

Rather hold on to Petch tbh. Will only get better as the team around him gets better. Doubt he’d be paid s**t or get us anything good in a trade.

Why? He has had a his go and is bog average… throw him to the market and we might get something for him but he has gone as far as he will with us.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Why? He has had a his go and is bog average… throw him to the market and we might get something for him but he has gone as far as he will with us.

I feel like if you were the list manager, we’d be turning over about 40 players at the end of the year.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

Why? He has had a his go and is bog average… throw him to the market and we might get something for him but he has gone as far as he will with us.

Because we'd probably get a third-rounder at best... and the reality is that with our recruiting track record, a mediocre Petrucelle is still better than anyone we are likely to pick up in the third round.

I think the guy is a spud, but we have an entire potato farm to deal with... he's a long way down the list, IMHO.

 

[FKASC]

Why? He has had a his go and is bog average… throw him to the market and we might get something for him but he has gone as far as he will with us.

if the question was: you have two options, you delist him or get something of value in return, then sure why not.

But we have plenty of worse players to delist first and it’s unlikely we would get anything for him if we ‘threw him to the market’, which we never do anyway.

So in reality it becomes hold onto him or delist.

 

[briztoon]

I just can’t see how he plays consistently well for us.

I don’t know if it is talent, development, role or a combo - but he just seems to be a player who is good enough but shows it too rarely for us.

And there is no issue allowing those players to move for a new opportunity (provided the trade compo is fair, hard to judge for petch but probably mid 3rd round I.e negligible trade value).

Also seems to have lost his elite pace after repeated hamstrings.

All of that kind of points to a win/win in a trade rather than retain.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Players of Petruccelle’s ilk really aren’t moved for a third round pick.

More often something like a pick upgrade, where you send Petruccelle and a fourth round pick (say a late pick in the 50’s) for a mid third round pick (say something in the mid 40’s).

 

[WeaponX]

No one wants Petch, his nickname is the "One Trick Pony". Keep him and extract what we can I say, this could be another failed rebuild from what I am seeing. Oscar is a pretty decent cornerstone but we need Rucks, Mids and another tall forward before we start to move up the ladder again.

 

[frenchconnection]

With Hurn being in our best this week I wouldn’t be surprised if he plays on next year. So who out of our aging veterans would actually retire/move on this year?
NicNat - contracted for another year and could play the second half of the season
Shuey - out of contract but would be interesting if he stays on the park
Gov - rumoured to have signed a 2 year deal
Yeo - younger than the rest but may be a trade option. Still one of our best when he plays
Cripps - has been durable for most of his career and unsure of contract status. Officially still out of contract this year.

We should ideally move on two of these but I could see a world where they all stay. Some interesting decisions to be made…




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Don’t forget players have to agree to be traded - and from my understanding Yeo doesn’t want to leave the West - it was why he asked to be traded back here in the first place. Freo would be the only possibility - and personally from any of our players he is the one I would like to stay on our list as he’s one of the few that has that hunger and has a bit of mongrel about him.

 

[mattyc75]

So a few ppl have mentioned trade next years first to get more picks in this draft
Its also been mentioned that after pick 1 this year it drops off a fair bit at this stage although its early days yet obviously
And it looks like we'll be very close to bottom again next year
Is next years draft looking so weak that we would risk losing the number 1 draft pick next year ?

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Obeanie1]

Because we'd probably get a third-rounder at best... and the reality is that with our recruiting track record, a mediocre Petrucelle is still better than anyone we are likely to pick up in the third round.

I think the guy is a spud, but we have an entire potato farm to deal with... he's a long way down the list, IMHO.

Noah Long was a 3rd rounder.

He has more football IQ in his little toe then 10 Petrucelle's.

This is a deep draft. Better than last year's.

Move him on and draft a project tall. The HFF is a development position for the likes of Hewett, Long, Burgeil and even Ried or one of this years picks.

List spots will drive who gets moved on.

Do we chase another Hunt as a FA to help build quality depth. Proven depth.

If Petrucelle is moved on that's a list spot and cap space to invest elsewhere. And I'm hoping it's on Brockman.

 

[Obeanie1]

Don’t forget players have to agree to be traded - and from my understanding Yeo doesn’t want to leave the West - it was why he asked to be traded back here in the first place. Freo would be the only possibility - and personally from any of our players he is the one I would like to stay on our list as he’s one of the few that has that hunger and has a bit of mongrel about him.

That mindset may well change with one season remaining on contract.

And where the club is at list wise.

 

[Shoestar]

Probably an overly optimistic view of what I think the club should attempt to do to help us accelerate our rebuild.

Important to note for this section that I would be for keeping veterans to help us compete in the short term but if they are always injured then the lack of availability hurts development and competitiveness in AFL but significantly impacts these areas for the WAFL. I am inclined to think we should try to move on most of our older players with injury issues.
Delist/Retire

Luke Foley
Xavier O’Neill
Shuey
Hurn
Clark
West (Rookie)
Winder (Rookie)
Rotham (contracted)
Gaff (contracted) Worst kick in afl rn according to champion data and it shows. Would not be surprised if he willingly retires without too much convincing.
Naitanui (contracted) Don’t expect him to retire as contracted but he may have come to terms with the fact his body is shot.

Wait and see
I think most of these guys should be given another year but in no rush to offer a contract to any. Potential re-rookies here.

Witherden
Petch
SPS
Jack Williams
Trew

Big Name Free Agents Targets

We should have a lot of cap space with how bad our list is and number of players being moved on. We need to use ~ 95% of our list space so might as well try bring in some proven quality that can help us over the next 5 years even if we have to overpay quite a bit for them to consider coming. Hopefully we can grab 1/2 of the prospects named.

Tom Doedee

12

Tom Doedee

Age

27

Ht

190cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.1

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

5.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

MG

228.8

4star

D

15.3

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

5.8

3star

M

6.3

5star

T

1.3

2star

MG

228.8

3star

D

19.8

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

9.4

5star

M

6.6

5star

T

1.4

4star

Mason Redman

27

Mason Redman

Age

27

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.2

4star

K

10.1

4star

HB

5.1

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.7

4star

MG

262.0

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.2

3star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.8

3star

MG

210.3

3star

D

12.0

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.4

4star

MG

144.2

3star

Darcy Parish

3

Darcy Parish

Age

27

Ht

180cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.4

5star

K

9.2

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

3.3

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

16.6

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

9.1

5star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.0

3star

CL

3.1

4star

D

22.2

5star

K

7.6

3star

HB

14.6

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

Jade Gresham

11

Jade Gresham

Age

27

Ht

177cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

7.2

4star

M

3.2

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

17.5

4star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.5

4star

D

11.8

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.4

5star

G

0.4

3star

Ignore Himmelberg and McKay. Good players but don’t think add great value to us.

Target Fringe Players
I believe there’s a number of players we can offer a spot in best 22 to help us short term but also have a great deal of development left as they haven’t been given proper opportunity. Only get if we can get cheaply. 2-3 of these blokes would be nice but wouldn’t grab more.

Mitch Georgiades

19

Mitch Georgiades

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

2.0

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

G

2.0

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

2.0

5star

James Jordon (free agent)
Sam Flanders
Angus Sheldrick
Deven Robertson

2

Deven Robertson

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

4.0

3star

M

0.0

1star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

4.0

3star

M

0.0

1star

T

3.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

4.0

3star

M

0.0

1star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.0

1star

Tyler Brockman

Ignore Jeremy Sharp. I think the game suits having endurance more and more however, he is too one dimensional for the modern game relying on the outside ball.

Draft
Put JJ on ice and take 2 MSD selections

First Selection : Buller, Maric, Tucker or Hunter
Second Selection: If any above available still, Teal, Schumacher, Woodcock, Hansen, Ryan or Narkle

Hold out for a Judd level offer for Reid or back ourselves in to keep him.
Deep draft so we should continue to try have 4 or more selections at National Draft.



Think the club has to be creative in optimising ways we can get better through every available avenue. Perhaps a number of my proposals are quite unrealistic but I think being overly hopeful is key during these times as a supporter!

 

[jaxxon]

Cripps was 9-10 weeks last week which would have him back around round 20/21, without any further delays.

Cripps said on Saturday he is due back round 16 and that he is tracking ahead of time. No surprise it is different to the info that is given from the club.

 

[briztoon]

Look lets skip all the theatre.

Pick 2 and 3 worth is a min for Harley Reid. JHF was valued at that when he left.

Anyone dealing with us deals with that as a starting point. The price if he were to leave.

Before anyone screams NUH UH THAT was unique. IDGAF precedent has been set we don't want to be bent over

We need the marketing tbh.

No he was not.

JHF + 2022 pick 1 was traded for 2022 picks 2 and 3 and Port’s 2023 first round pick.

 

[Obeanie1]

So update from the Trades board.

Top 10 pick needed for out of contract Brockman.

Anyone?

Do we have any bids? Anything!



Crickets............hears laughing in the distance.

Hawks fans are so one eyed

 

[bzparkes]

So update from the Trades board.

Top 10 pick needed for out of contract Brockman.

Anyone?

Do we have any bids? Anything!



Crickets............hears laughing in the distance.

Hawks fans are so one eyed

Did I hear 'pre-season draft'?

 

[Rowan18]

Players of Petruccelle’s ilk really aren’t moved for a third round pick.

More often something like a pick upgrade, where you send Petruccelle and a fourth round pick (say a late pick in the 50’s) for a mid third round pick (say something in the mid 40’s).

Whatever we paid for Sam Petrevski Seaton and Witherden would be around market value. From memory that would be a third or fourth rounder.

 

[PRANKSTER666]

How many more games do we need to lose in a row before the Vics will hand us a priority pick?