List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

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The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...
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ROO DOGG said:
Harley is confused he is looking both east and west.
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Big_Birdy said:
The way people ignore that Collingwood finished second bottom since the 2018 GF is quite baffling to be honest. It was a COVID affected year, but still.
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I don't think people are forgetting that. I think you are making people's point for them. Collingwood were tired and had really come to the end of that era. They made some tough calls - walking the coach and making some tough list management decisions (many before the new coach) and now they're refreshed and are rejuvenated.

Not saying I necessarily agree we should do what they've done but I can see why people do. But reiterating that I feel like you are making people's point for them by highlighting Collingwoods trajectory as that inevitably makes you ask the question of the decisions made and the outcomes as a result.

And nobody can deny Collingwoods outcomes since 2018 are more desirable than ours.
 
thebutterflyeffect said:
I don't think people are forgetting that. I think you are making people's point for them. They Collingwood were tired and had really come to the end of that era. They made some tough calls - walking the coach and making some tough list management decisions (many before the new coach) and now they've refreshed and are rejuvenated.

Not saying I necessarily agree we should do what they've done but I can see why people do. Again feel like you are making people's point for them by highlighting Collingwoods trajectory as that inevitably makes you ask the question of the decisions made and the outcomes as a result.

And nobody can deny Collingwoods outcomes since 2018 are more desirable than ours.
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Both still have zero flags since and at least we have that 2018 one in the sheds.
 
thebutterflyeffect said:
Well sure and Essendon have like 16 flags. But doesn't mean you can't make bad decisions or that other clubs with fewer flags can't make better decisions
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Sure, just saying that Collingwood's approach can't really be called a success unless they win a flag. If they get close, then fall away, then it's just a different approach that didn't get the job done. We'll see how the Eagles' approach stacks up and it will b e decided by flags.
 
JackOutback said:
Sure, just saying that Collingwood's approach can't really be called a success unless they win a flag. If they get close, then fall away, then it's just a different approach that didn't get the job done. We'll see how the Eagles' approach stacks up and it will b e decided by flags.
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That's fair - but what is the Eagles approach? And from what time frame is it appropriate to measure if the approach is successful?

For example do we say the tigers approach from the 1990s was more successful than North Melbourne as since then Richmond have won three flags compared to two flags of NM?
 
the harry said:
You're confusing ruthlessness with incompetent list management. They're literally paying the wage of a best 22 player for a fellow flag contender?
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Collingwood got lucky that the trend in football, in part thanks to Hockings garbage rule changes suited their playing group. One of the Goat outside midfielders as a FS selection played into this at the same time.

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thebutterflyeffect said:
That's fair - but what is the Eagles approach? And from what time frame is it appropriate to measure if the approach is successful?

For example do we say the tigers approach from the 1990s was more successful than North Melbourne as since then Richmond have won three flags compared to two flags of NM?
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I've always thought you can loosely have 7 year eras. Based on an average career, head coach etc.
 
bzparkes said:
Yep,.

People really need to stop comparing pur situation to Collingwood's. They're poles apart.
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Okay sure then who do you to compare us to? There needs to be some benchmark and keeping in mind that there is going to be no exact like for like. Other teams that were successful when we were Collingwood, Geelong, Richmond and Hawthorn. So we can't use Collingwood.

Richmond and Geelong have gone down the FA path and Hawthorn have gone full rebuild. We are an unusual case as we to are going down the rebuild path but not by design.
 
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thebutterflyeffect said:
Okay sure that's a bit of a reductive argument though as you can only beat who you can play. We only have 1 premiership with a full 18 team competition. I guess all teams can reset at 0 when Tassie come in
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We have 3 premiership in the AFL.

No, because when Tassie come in, it will still be the AFL, not the VFL.
 
thebutterflyeffect said:
Okay sure then who do you to compare us to? There needs to be some benchmark and keeping in mind that there is going to be no exact like for like. Other teams that were successful when we were Collingwood, Geelong, Richmond and Hawthorn. So we can't use Collingwood.

Richmond and Geelong have gone down the FA path and Hawthorn have gone full rebuild. We are an unusual case as we to are going down the rebuild path but not by design.
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I think Adelaide is a good comparison. The wheels fell off unexpectedly in 2018 but it took until the end of 2019 for them to really acknowledge the rebuild was on (similar to us in 2021 and 2022). Won the spoon in 2020 but committed to the draft in 2019 and 2020. Did some trades for needs in 2021 and more heavily in 2022. Is now building and knocking on the door of the 8

They also had a stale off field admin and managed to finally oust their CEO and Chairman around 2020. Things have been on the up since.

If you want someone on the same timeline as us then Richmond is the comparison. We've gone the rebuild and they've tried the Hawthorn approach of trading in for one last shot at the flag. I'm much happier that we're two years ahead on the rebuild.
 
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