List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[Ambrose Burnside]

Centrelink court appearance or hardcore bogan wedding.

Public servant, so close enough

 

[dinnaz]

If you buy 7x of K-mart everything you can perpetually dress like a cartoon character & then no one will question you ever again about your attire.

 

[dinnaz]

Monocle
WCE_phil
Keys

I feel dirty having to buy a ticket to the freo game just to see the curtain raiser. Any ways around this?

 

[Mop]

Monocle
WCE_phil
Keys

I feel dirty having to buy a ticket to the freo game just to see the curtain raiser. Any ways around this?

There's a terrific certified legendary thread about sneaking in to the grand final, same principles apply here

 

[kylealone]

Would it be possible/worth it for us to acquire Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

as a free agent, pay him enough that North get Band 1 Compensation. Which would leave them with Pick 2 & 3. We then trade pick 1 to them for picks 2 & 3. North lose pick 2 and Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

and get Pick 1. We get an established key defender and the next best 2 players after Harley.

 

[dinnaz]

There's a terrific certified legendary thread about sneaking in to the grand final, same principles apply here

TL;DR
I'd prefer semi legal, like buying a kids ticket

 

[Obeanie1]

Made the mistake of listening to this

If Sumich thinks Waterman is worth $600-700k for 4 years then I’m glad he’s nowhere near our list management

Happy for Jake to get a new deal but 2 years is more realistic for a player who’s on the edge of best 22

That whole segment was an awful listen

4 years at $6-700k?

What has Suma been smoking?

AFL average is now $450k.

So far Jake hasn't shown he is above average imo. Solid depth / fringe with glimpses of quality games.

 

[ziad]

Facing east...

View attachment 1719469

The drive from Adelaide to Sydney gave me time to ponder Tom. This isn't an opinion but a straw-man: He is a smart educated man edging towards 28. I don't see him satisfied post footy as another explayer scrounging a living from the media or similar by working in footy. He has faced family trauma and has a sister in Sydney, I am told 2 & 3rd hand he is very close to. Sydney offers a good lifestyle he may be familiar with given visits to his sister, there are also diverse post footy career opportunities that may appeal and that the Swans could facilitate. Jason Ball is an example. The Swans need a Barrass, so any interest if real would be legitimate. They have offered past Eagles solid deals to lure them to fill a need. (Tom isn't a ruckman I know).

In addition, just speculation unbased on any facts or knowledge, Tom was rotated from the captaincey because' he didnt feel comfortable' or similar as stated by the club from vague memory. Could this be a man of honour not being comfortable with leadership knowing he is considering moving?

If Tom is interested in a move it may well be a brilliant win-win outcome given his demographic and value.

Personally, I think he is valuable to us as a player and a person. But there is a price for everything.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Made the mistake of listening to this

If Sumich thinks Waterman is worth $600-700k for 4 years then I’m glad he’s nowhere near our list management

Happy for Jake to get a new deal but 2 years is more realistic for a player who’s on the edge of best 22

That whole segment was an awful listen

I cut off after 3 minutes - Sumich is a sad and delusional state of mind.

Unfortunately, I will never get back that wasted listening time

 

[Chris_6678]

Suma makes Kim Hagdorn look awesome.

 

[new breed]

Woosha is needed now , sort this mess WCE are in ..board member position .

 

[ziad]

Woosha is needed now , sort this mess WCE are in ..board member position .

Would be a good board member

 

[Keys]

TL;DR
I'd prefer semi legal, like buying a kids ticket

You can do this or buy a concession ticket- there’s no proof required when you purchase and no one checks when you scan through at the ground

Restricted view seats are also cheaper and if you’re going just to watch the curtain raiser you’d be able to sit somewhere else anyway

 

[bzparkes]

Woosha is needed now , sort this mess WCE are in ..board member position .

Hmm, well I guess it'll go from this:

Woosha - "Cuz, are you on drugs?"

Cousins - "No coach."

To this:

Woosha - "Shuey, have you got hamstring awareness?"

Shuey - "No coach."

A step up I guess.

 

[ArdentEagle]

I've always thought ziad could actually be Sumich.

After hearing the Waterman spiel, I now know that can't be true.

Please accept my apologies.

 

[Keys]

I've always thought ziad could actually be Sumich.

After hearing the Waterman spiel, I now know that can't be true.

Please accept my apologies.

You apologising to Suma or Ziad?

 

[garlic munchers]

Sumich would struggle to run a bath, let alone a footy club.

Why would the club give 2 shits what Dinosaurs from the 90s think on how to run a footy club?

So if the players from the 1990's are dinosaurs who we shouldn't give 2 shits about what they think on how to run a club then.....

• In 1999, Nisbett was appointed CEO of the West Coast Eagles.
• A left-footed midfielder Adam Simpson, his playing career commenced for North Melbourne in 1995.
• Chairman of the Board Mr Fitzpatrick, started as a partner of Clayton Utz on the 1st of July 1,1985.

 

[bzparkes]

So if the players from the 1990's are dinosaurs who we shouldn't give 2 shits about what they think on how to run a club then.....

• In 1999, Nisbett was appointed CEO of the West Coast Eagles.
• A left-footed midfielder Adam Simpson, his playing career commenced for North Melbourne in 1995.
• Chairman of the Board Mr Fitzpatrick, started as a partner of Clayton Utz on the 1st of July 1,1985.

1. Pretty sure everyone wants Nisbett gone. He's well past his use-by date.
2. Simpson played in the modern era, not retired mid-late 90s. He retired in 2009 and started at WCE in his late 30s.
3. Fitzpatrick wouldn't have any direct involvement into how the club runs/operates.

You only need to look at Sumich's regular 'comments' to realise he is completely out of touch with how the modern game is, both on and off the field.

 

[shooshka]

Sam Mitchell below.

Yeah that's all well and good to push blokes across the Victorian metro area, but try and tell someone Perth born and bred or Adelaide born and bred nah get stuffed you're off to St Kilda/Tasmania/Gold Coast/GWS


Stupid VFL mentality.

That is an odd take. With our retention history we would be net beneficiaries of a change like this.

We generally keep the players we want but could (as in now) trade out some with value without their consent to best manage list decisions.

We could also chase some players who are currently nominating big vic clubs.

And lastly, when players do want to leave we would get the best deal as it is usually to Vic and there are 9 clubs there (but not needing consent opens up the possibility of other clubs too).

Note it would 100% come with FA being loosened to 6 or even 5 years (again good for us considering the performance drop off we see after 30yo… getting a 27yo free agent has some risks!)


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[ziad]

I've always thought ziad could actually be Sumich.

After hearing the Waterman spiel, I now know that can't be true.

Please accept my apologies.

we all make mistakes my child

 

[Grahame]

4 years at $6-700k?

What has Suma been smoking?

AFL average is now $450k.

So far Jake hasn't shown he is above average imo. Solid depth / fringe with glimpses of quality games.

I think Waterman is part of The Lost Generation i.e. players with 50-120 games who seem only to be WAFL standard. Players who have had season after season after season to prove themselves but at best only play a couple of good-great games a year. (I'm talking Waterman, Petro, Witho, SPS and Rotham.)

But right now they're better than some of the <20 gamers. So because of that, they keep getting games which blocks the development of those young'uns. It's easy to say e.g. Trew won't make it but he can't have less upside than the five above. We know their limit and it simply is not up to the standard required in an AFL side with ambition.

I would rather consign those five to the WAFL (which would help there) and they only get AFL games if and only if they show sustained good form. And then when selected at AFL level have only a couple of games to contribute or back to the WAFL for even longer.

For me the list cloggers or depth are not so much in the young'uns but in those who've had their chances over and over and over again.

 

[Mop]

That is an odd take. With our retention history we would be net beneficiaries of a change like this.

We generally keep the players we want but could (as in now) trade out some with value without their consent to best manage list decisions.

We could also chase some players who are currently nominating big vic clubs.

And lastly, when players do want to leave we would get the best deal as it is usually to Vic and there are 9 clubs there (but not needing consent opens up the possibility of other clubs too).

Note it would 100% come with FA being loosened to 6 or even 5 years (again good for us considering the performance drop off we see after 30yo… getting a 27yo free agent has some risks!)


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Realistically though there's no tangible way that's feasible unless the increasingly powerful AFLPA allows it - which doesn't suit interstate clubs.
Realistically who would be responsible for the relocation costs? Does it fall in the soft cap? The AFL has been very strong on their position of not raising it back to pre levels - where's this money going to come from>?

I doubt we're the beneficiaries at all. It isn't feasible to force players interstate. I get where you're coming from - for example being able to send Rioli to Norf who could've paid more than Port were. I just don't see it as being actually possible.

 

[JackOutback]

I think Waterman is part of The Lost Generation i.e. players with 50-120 games who seem only to be WAFL standard. Players who have had season after season after season to prove themselves but at best only play a couple of good-great games a year. (I'm talking Waterman, Petro, Witho, SPS and Rotham.)

But right now they're better than some of the <20 gamers. So because of that, they keep getting games which blocks the development of those young'uns. It's easy to say e.g. Trew won't make it but he can't have less upside than the five above. We know their limit and it simply is not up to the standard required in an AFL side with ambition.

I would rather consign those five to the WAFL (which would help there) and they only get AFL games if and only if they show sustained good form. And then when selected at AFL level have only a couple of games to contribute or back to the WAFL for even longer.

For me the list cloggers or depth are not so much in the young'uns but in those who've had their chances over and over and over again.

I'm pretty confident the ceiling of Waterman, Witherden and SPS is above that of Trew, Clark and O'Neil. The first three are the kind of foot soldiers every team needs that would look better if our top-tier players were actually top tier.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Lets do some simple arithmetic and comparisons.

If the average AFL wage is now 450k then that means that roughly 20 the of the roughly 40 man squad is on more than than that and other 20 is on less, and if Waterman is now considered a best 22 player at the club and will be for a quite a while (as he seems to be by the club's brains trust), then by simple logic you would think he would need to getting more than the 450k. Add in to that that he is 25 years old and has had 80 games and 7 years of development invested into him (and is thus coming in to his prime) and also add in that he is a KPP and they are always valued slightly more than non - KPP players by the market due to the extra development time and the fact that midfielders/flankers are obviously more common and thus easier to acquire/trade for than KPP's. And since this is likely to be the biggest contract of his career i am sure his manager is telling it is time to maximise his career earnings and not take an offer that is significantly smaller than the highest bid. And as a comparison lets remember that Port are paying Rioli 600k and he is a much more easily replaced player type than Waterman, has mental problems and drug issues, is fat and slow and likely to get slower.

Put all that together and 600k a year doesn't sound off the spectrum. I am sure there are other clubs who would offer him 600k. 600k for 3 years probably seems like a deal we should be happy with if we could get him to agree. Whats the alternative? Let him go and get low balled like we did with Rioli and end up with a pick upgrade from pick 40 to pick 30?

 

[SumaGodCoach]

You apologising to Suma or Ziad?

Yes