List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[Obeanie1]

Its usually the burst type players, plodders never get injured haha

He's an athlete.

I was very durable as a player.....

 

[Obeanie1]

We can be glad they're not. Mid Season trades will be contending clubs raiding the cellar-dwellars to try and cover a deficiency in order to win a flag. We would be having players poached for us and unlikely to get good value.

Edit: Imagine if Collingwood came to Darling now and said we want you to come over for a few years and we should be able to win a couple of premierships. If he asks the club are they really going to say no to someone who's already given us so much? We get a late second rounder (due to them winning flag) but it robs us of the support to develop Allen or Waterman.

We could always agree to another player coming back, ie Ash Johnson. And if he was injured then an agreed pick.

Johnson is worth a look at, a Le cras type 3rd tall?

 

[Nuffington Post]

I think the AFL needs to pass a rule that max contract length is 5 years. No club can have a player contracted for more than 5 years. The contracts clubs are being forced to cough up for good players get longer and longer. Richmond gave out 7 year deals last season. There might be other clubs who have given out longer deals. An incompetent administration could potentially decimate a club for the best part of a decade if they go mad they offering up multiple 7 - 9 year deals and things go bad. That is the opposite of what the AFL says it wants.

As Buffett says he invests in companies so simple that even an idiot could run because eventually at some point, just by the law of averages, there will be an idiot who somehow ends up in charge. There will always be incompetent administrations at some AFL clubs at any point in time. The AFL should limit how much long term damage they can do.

Or increase the soft cap to reduce the risk of idiots running clubs…


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[Ishmael_]

Looking at the free agent list for 2025.

Naughton
Starcevich
Will Powell
Sam Taylor

2026 legit no Western Australian worth looking at.

Unless Freo is very much in the ring, I would think Naughton, Taylor and English in '24 would/should all be of interest to West Coast.

Those three players may all have their knocks, but forum Nuffies like us can get a bit cute I think. If talent is there, available and may not cost draft capital, take it!

Fwiw, I think, in their own way, those three fit the list age profile for our next premiership push.

 

[briztoon]

Unless Freo is very much in the ring, I would think Naughton, Taylor and English in '24 would/should all be of interest to West Coast.

Those three players may all have their knocks, but forum Nuffies like us can get a bit cute I think. If talent is there, available and may not cost draft capital, take it!

Fwiw, I think, in their own way, those three fit the list age profile for our next premiership push.

English might be of interest, but you need to structure the deal so Western Bulldogs can't match your offer, otherwise they will probably match and force a trade of your first round pick. Same will probably happen in 2025.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

You've got to be kidding.

Option 1. Offer future 4th.
Option 2. Offer 4th.
Option 3. Whinge and moan and offer lowest 3rd in our inventory. And only then if it's in the 40s somewhere.
Option 4. Leave him where he is.

Let's be honest here. He is an undersized 3rd tall(ish) who shows a bit but not a lot. Right now he'd be depth for Waterman.

Yep georgiades is an undersized tall forward who uses his athletic ability to compete against taller defenders .

He has just done his ACL so he is at least 24 months away from being back to his athletic best .

Saying that I think if he does decide to come home freo will over spend on a forward like they always do and he will choose them which I am ok with .

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

English might be of interest, but you need to structure the deal so Western Bulldogs can't match your offer, otherwise they will probably match and force a trade of your first round pick. Same will probably happen in 2025.

Depends how low we finish and how low they finish .

If we are spooners then they take the AFL compo or get nothing

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

We can be glad they're not. Mid Season trades will be contending clubs raiding the cellar-dwellars to try and cover a deficiency in order to win a flag. We would be having players poached for us and unlikely to get good value.

Edit: Imagine if Collingwood came to Darling now and said we want you to come over for a few years and we should be able to win a couple of premierships. If he asks the club are they really going to say no to someone who's already given us so much? We get a late second rounder (due to them winning flag) but it robs us of the support to develop Allen or Waterman.

The club only does the deal if the reward is worth it.

What about the Pies R1 pick (likely late teens) and we tip in $100k pa of Jack’s salary?

 

[Rowan18]

The club only does the deal if the reward is worth it.

What about the Pies R1 pick (likely late teens) and we tip in $100k pa of Jack’s salary?

What if Jack came to the club and said that he'd taken unders in his last contract (probably several hundred thousand a year if we're realistic with how desperate teams are for KPF) and he desperately wants the chance for one last go at a flag. He's been super durable and given the club amazing service (especially compared to guys like Gov who took us for all we were worth then play one in every 2 games). Collingwood is lowballing us but he begs us to let him move.

Maybe we try and play hard ball but his manager leaks it to the press and they run with it. The AFLPA then rings the AFL for backroom discussions, who then lean on Nisbett.

Reckon we'd be able to resist? I doubt it.

 

[JackOutback]

Nah, we'll still beat pies at home and freo in the next derby.

Just quietly, I’m sure we all expected to beat Port Adelaide at Adelaide Oval. It’s kinda our thing.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

What if Jack came to the club and said that he'd taken unders in his last contract (probably several hundred thousand a year if we're realistic with how desperate teams are for KPF) and he desperately wants the chance for one last go at a flag. He's been super durable and given the club amazing service (especially compared to guys like Gov who took us for all we were worth then play one in every 2 games). Collingwood is lowballing us but he begs us to let him move.

Maybe we try and play hard ball but his manager leaks it to the press and they run with it. The AFLPA then rings the AFL for backroom discussions, who then lean on Nisbett.

Reckon we'd be able to resist? I doubt it.

I’d take it if Jack promised to throw in some of his magic beans.

 

[ep2018]

If we finish above North and Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

decides to leave via free agency, our first round pick will be moving down a spot imo.

Allowing compo for FA is a bullshit system but in saying that, the moment the AFL scrap it is the moment a big name Eagle decides to leave and we get FA

 

[Obeanie1]

What if Jack came to the club and said that he'd taken unders in his last contract (probably several hundred thousand a year if we're realistic with how desperate teams are for KPF) and he desperately wants the chance for one last go at a flag. He's been super durable and given the club amazing service (especially compared to guys like Gov who took us for all we were worth then play one in every 2 games). Collingwood is lowballing us but he begs us to let him move.

Maybe we try and play hard ball but his manager leaks it to the press and they run with it. The AFLPA then rings the AFL for backroom discussions, who then lean on Nisbett.

Reckon we'd be able to resist? I doubt it.

Wow. Thats alot of what ifs.

As for 3rd parties ringing and putting pressure on. That is a massive stretch.

 

[Nuffington Post]

Discussion between Duff and Quarters suggesting that we have too many broken athletes and that maybe it’s time to move on guys like NicNat, Yeo, Shuey, Hurn and McGovern. I agree that having a lot of these guys puts pressure on the rest of the list, particularly after we retired some of our most durable like Redden.




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[bh90210fan]

Discussion between Duff and Quarters suggesting that we have too many broken athletes and that maybe it’s time to move on guys like NicNat, Yeo, Shuey, Hurn and McGovern. I agree that having a lot of these guys puts pressure on the rest of the list, particularly after we retired some of our most durable like Redden.




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I’d be surprised if Hurn and Shuey stick around next year. If that’s the case, keeping a couple onboard doesn’t hurt.

Meanwhile, another kid who we might be considering in the mid season draft …

 

[JackOutback]

Shuey and Hurn will be moving on at the end of the year, I reckon (plus, Hurn has been very durable and two weeks out in his final season doesn't change that). Yeo is 100 per cent worth persisting with given he's only 29 and his best is still very good. McGovern as well. NicNat may or may not play again, but he has his contract and we can always use him for mentoring and ambassadorship.

 

[Nuffington Post]

Shuey and Hurn will be moving on at the end of the year, I reckon (plus, Hurn has been very durable and two weeks out in his final season doesn't change that). Yeo is 100 per cent worth persisting with given he's only 29 and his best is still very good. McGovern as well. NicNat may or may not play again, but he has his contract and we can always use him for mentoring and ambassadorship.

Yeah agree. Don’t think we would want to retire all 5 but 2-3 this year would probably be reasonable.


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[JackOutback]

Yeah agree. Don’t think we would want to retire all 5 but 2-3 this year would probably be reasonable.


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There's enough deadwood that retiring two and delisting four or more leaves us with plenty of national draft spots.

 

[bh90210fan]

Here’s another player getting a fair bit of attention for the mid season draft. Related to Luke Ryan though so probably a real tool.



Northern Bullants has an AFL draft bolter in 200cm forward and ruckman Brandon Ryan. Picture: Owen Jones (@digial_beard)

Owing to Covid, he played no football in 2020 and a dozen games in 2021.

For Ryan, that was no bad thing.

“It worked out all right for me; it allowed my body to recover. Everything healed,’’ he says. “I think I needed that break, just to get over the injuries.’’

Last year, he trained briefly with Carlton’s VFL squad before spending another season with Maribyrnong Park in the strong Essendon District league.

Ryan was attached to North Melbourne when he joined “Marby’’, where his head spins to “Sticks’’, a reference to his slight build.

But he is more Bellarine Peninsula boy than city-slicker. He grew up in Barwon Heads, played juniors there and made his start in senior football with Geelong West.

He was surprised when the Kangaroos offered him a two-year VFL contract at the end of 2017.

North Melbourne announced his arrival with some nice words from football manager Nick Byrne.

“Brandon arrives from Geelong West after a very good 2017, where he showed some relatively rare traits for a 200cm player,’’ Byrne said.

“Brandon is raw but kicks the ball very well and has a solid base of ball handling and skill execution. He has significant improvement remaining in his frame but in his first exposure to this level of training and preparation, we’re confident he’ll reach his potential.’’

Unfortunately, the only thing he reached was the end of his tether with his injuries.

Ryan, pictured here playing for Maribyrnong Park, spent two years on North Melbourne’s list. Picture: Andy Brownbill

Ryan did not go through the Under 18s – he was in the Geelong Falcons region – and he believes it showed.

“Not being in the ‘system’, I wasn’t about doing all the gym work and all that sort of stuff,’’ he says.

“I didn’t know exactly what I needed to do. I had no idea, really. When I got to North Melbourne I thought, ‘What the hell am I doing here?’ … coming out of Barwon Heads and the GFL (Geelong Football League), it was a bit different.’’

In his second stint in the VFL, he has more understanding of what’s required.

His Ants chance came when Northern Bullants coach Brodie Holland

Brodie Holland

Age

45

Ht

181cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.6

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

8.6

4star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

, a past coach of Maribyrnong Park, contacted him about 2023.

Ryan says he was quick to respond to take up Holland’s invitation and he had a strong pre-season. “The first full pre-season I’ve ever done,’’ he says.

In March, Coburg organised a practice-match carnival at Craigieburn for the six Victorian stand-alone clubs.

The Bullants and Williamstown kicked it off and pretty quickly spectators, and a couple of recruiters, were asking for the identity of the tall lad taking contested marks and wheeling on to his left-foot for the Ants.

Port Melbourne coach Adam Skrobalak noticed Ryan that day.

Ryan turned heads during a practice match in March. Picture: Owen Jones (@digial_beard)

And he noticed him again in round four, when the big fellow kicked three goals against the Borough, giving him eight from three matches.

“He’s very athletic and apart from being so tall, he has really long levers,’’ Skrobalak says.

“He’s actually never out of the contest. You think you’ve got him beaten and then all of a sudden, he plucks you over the top.’’

The former St Kilda AFL assistant adds: “He’s definitely got some draftable attributes and as he gets more supply down there, he’s only going to get better. He’s pretty impressive.’’

Apart from being a key target in attack, Ryan is doing some ruck work for the Bullants.

He’s keen but admits he’s also green.

“I haven’t done a lot of rucking,’’ he says.

“I think people assumed I’m a ruckman because I’m nice and tall, but I grew late. In juniors, I played more in the midfield and forward. So no one has ever really taught me how to go about it. I’m working on it. I’ve got a lot improvement with it.’’

Northern Bullants coach Holland confirms some AFL clubs are tracking Ryan, whom he calls a “beauty’’.

He says any 200cm player who can mark and kick well and nimbly get across the ground is worth following.

Ryan is a key target for the Bullants’ up forward. Picture: Andy Brownbill

Holland notes that Ryan’s kicking style is similar to Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

31

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

’s, “And when he strikes them well, he can kick ’em from outside 50’’.

“I’m really happy with the big fella. His leading patterns are strong, he works up, he works back, he gets in good positions to mark the footy,’’ Holland says.

“He’s far and away ahead of where I thought he would be at this stage … I think he’s got what it takes as a 200cm mobile forward who can kick goals and go into the ruck. Those guys are worth their weight in gold.

“Even in our environment, he’s improved his footy. If he was to be in an AFL environment, he’d improve again.’’

The Bullants have another tall prospect in Finnbar Maley, the son of former top basketballer Paul, but a spider bite on the arm has kept him on the sidelines. He needed an operation to remove an infection from it.

Ryan is juggling his football with work as a labourer and studies in property; like most VFL players, he has few spare hours.

And has dashing Docker Luke Ryan, who was drafted from Coburg, spoken to his cousin about his promising start at the Bullants?

​

“I’m not sure how far news travels to Perth,’’ he says.

“I’m sure he knows how I’m going because his mum and dad come and support me at the games when they can. We’re a pretty tight-knit family, so he’s probably heard I’m doing OK.’’

 

[Obeanie1]

My 18 yr old boy mentioned he read somewhere we may be into Ash Johnson at Collingwood.

3rd tall forward with a great leap, nice skills. Bit of a Le crash type 3rd medium forward.

WA kid, 23 and out of contract. Ex rookie pick.

 

[Chump Change]

Discussion between Duff and Quarters suggesting that we have too many broken athletes and that maybe it’s time to move on guys like NicNat, Yeo, Shuey, Hurn and McGovern. I agree that having a lot of these guys puts pressure on the rest of the list, particularly after we retired some of our most durable like Redden.




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I hate how journos do this. They're doing it with Richmond too. At a loss to why they are near the bottom and providing all sorts of reasons, blame, and commentary. They're at the bottom because they won 3 flags. We're at the bottom because we didn't have a top 10 draft pick for a decade. it's not rocket science.

We have these broken athletes, but what does it matter? We don't have other players to take their place. And we could trade some in, but for what? Mid table purgatory?

A guess they have to talk about something, but it's irrelevant filler.

 

[Keys]

2023 - Shuey & Hurn
2024 - Gaff & Naitanui
2025 - McGovern & Cripps
2026(?) - Darling & Yeo - probably earlier

Yeo could be 2024 when his contract expires or maybe a year (or two) later if he gets over his injuries. Right now it seems unlikely but he’s still yet to turn 30 so there’s a glimmer of hope

Darling is contracted to 2024 but there’d be a good chance he gets another year or two as he’s been pretty durable. Is showing some wear and tear signs now though

That’s how I see our veterans getting phased out over the next 3 years. It’s staggered so there’s not a massive chunk of experience lost in one hit but we become increasingly less reliant on those older heads

 

[Cuzz09]

My 18 yr old boy mentioned he read somewhere we may be into Ash Johnson at Collingwood.

3rd tall forward with a great leap, nice skills. Bit of a Le crash type 3rd medium forward.

WA kid, 23 and out of contract. Ex rookie pick.

Seems very doubtful.

Looks pretty comfortable at the Pies.

We'd prob overpay if we want him.

Dunno if we need?

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[AsterixTheGaul]

So some slight push backs as a result of the Port rising to 7th (it was never going to help our cause playing Port)

We are now holding the following picks


Meanwhile Melbourne are enjoying Freo sliding down to 13th - picks 6, 13 and 25 (some loose change going back) is looking an extremely high price.

Norf plummeting down means the 2 Norf compensation picks for Freo are looking better deals (although roughly where expected IMHO).

GWS enjoying the Tigers fall - and now hold picks 3 and 7 in R1.

Doggies 2 x R1 are depreciating fast at 8 and 13 - last week they were 5 and 11.

A look ahead at this week

• we want to all be supporting Ross and St Blunder as they host Port.
• hope that Norf overcome a possibly leg weary Demons
• look to watch Hawks knock off Doggies but in all reality the Hawks will "unfortunately" blow a last minute lead
• purely from a draft perspective, the Blues should cement us to the bottom of the ladder and likely to happen given what players we will have to play. We will be relying on Rotham playing on Charlie Curnoe! Just like Josh did against Cameron, I am expecting some old fashioned hard nose tough arsed defending by him. Tip of the week - Rotham to book a date with tribunal on Tuesday. Intentional, high, severe is the ruling meaning he cops 6 weeks.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

I hate how journos do this. They're doing it with Richmond too. At a loss to why they are near the bottom and providing all sorts of reasons, blame, and commentary. They're at the bottom because they won 3 flags. We're at the bottom because we didn't have a top 10 draft pick for a decade. it's not rocket science.

We have these broken athletes, but what does it matter? We don't have other players to take their place. And we could trade some in, but for what? Mid table purgatory?

A guess they have to talk about something, but it's irrelevant filler.

Bottom of ladder
18 Hawks a threepeat in 13/14/15 and believing their window was still open in 2016 and 17
17 Eagles a winner in 2018 and believing their window was open in 2019
16 Tigers a triple win in 17/19/20 and believing their window was still open in 2022
15 Norf being a club with a sad and tragic history
14 Suns being a club with a sad and tragic future

Not sure why we need to much analysis on it. Post mortems on some drafting decisions but more a lack of access to top end talent. Hawks Eagles and Tigers were at the point end for most of 2012 through to 2020.