List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[WCE_phil]

This seems way too good to be true. I assume if we had pick 2, this deal would still be quite similar.

What I will ask though, what happens if we are wooden spooners? Would you take Reid or like Harry Houdini make some magic go into the draft with multiple picks and could expect?

Too early in the year. As of right now i'd take Reid. If as the year develops and we get a really, really solid top 10 then I would take 2 mid to late top 10 picks and another before 20 for pick 1.

Even then, as it stands now we need a superstar midfielder heading into the future and I don't believe we have one on the list. So it could still very likely be i'd just pick Reid.

(apologies for replying to someone elses post who isn't me and I don't know)

 

[Obeanie1]

How much of Chesser’s ankle injury is on him? As opposed to how his injury happened?

Can blame a player if someone else smashed their ankle.

Disclosure: I have no idea how his ankle injury occurred.

Some players are just injury prone.

My son has a mate who is a very good young player, trained with the NT u18's.

The poor kid cant play 3 games without breaking something. Collar bone x 2, arm, ankle and jarred knee. Then comes all the soft tissue injuries after rehab. Just cant stay on the park.

 

[Dylan82]

Watching Van Rooyen tonight it is hard not to feel like we have bungled our 2021 first rounder.

Early days. I would like to see a bigger sample size of evidence. But Chesser seems incredibly injury prone. And he looked like a deer in the headlights in the couple of games he has played. I would much rather have taken Van Rooyen based on what we have seen.

It's easy to reconsider with hindsight of course.

Van Rooyen had an element of apprehension hanging over him as he wasn't 195cm+. Few clubs were in the position to risk having a first round pick develop into no more than a marking third tall. Lost in that concern over his size was that he was clearly the best contested mark in the draft and has that unquantifiable trait which could be termed as "presence" - he imposes himself onto games.

West Coast were never in the hunt for him though. Midfielders, midfielders, midfielders was our requirement. If not Chesser, it would have been Hobbs, Sheldrick, Johnson or Goater, rather than a key forward (especially a potentially undersized one).

Indeed, had the club taken Van Rooyen, he would now be behind Darling, Allen and Waterman and languishing in the Beagles without any supply and probably looking very average as a result.


I get the impression Fremantle thought they had him set with their pick at 21, which is baffling as it was very well known going into the draft that both Melbourne and Brisbane in the picks before them (at 19 & 20) were looking at key prospects, including Van Rooyen.

 

[Keys]

But we are the only club in the bottom 4 doing it. Melbourne are in a legitimate flag window. That’s the difference. You can defend the deals given out in 2020 and before on the same basis. But the flag window was clearly shut after 2020. Any multi year deals given to over 30’s post 2020 are fair game for criticism IMO.

• Hurn has been signing 1 year contract extensions since 2019
• Naitanui signed a 3 year deal as a 29 year old in 2019 which ended last year. He was then extended for 2 more years until next year
• Shuey signed a 4 year extension in 2017 to a contract ending 2018 as a 27 year old. That contract expired last year and he was given a new one year deal
• Gaff signed what was effectively a 6 year deal in 2018 as a 26 year old which expires next year
• Darling signed a 4 year extension in 2019 to a contract ending 2020 as a 27 year old. That contract expires next year
• McGovern signed a 5 year deal in 2018 as a 26 year old which expires this year. Was said to be close to signing a new contract prior to his injury - anticipated to be a 2 year deal which remains TBC
• Cripps signed a 3 year deal in 2020 as a 27 year old which expires this year. Is in the same boat as McGovern re a new contract
• Yeo signed a 5 year deal late 2017 as a 24 year old which was due to expire this year. Another year was added to that contract before the 2022 season presumably for salary cap reasons but that isn’t clear
• Kelly was 25 when we offered him a 6 year deal to cross from Geelong at the end of 2019. He’s on the books until 2025
• Barrass is the only long term deal (5+ years) we’ve signed this decade and that was a 5 year deal in 2021 that takes him to 2027. He was 26 at the time

So for all the noise about the club giving long term contracts to injury prone older players, those contracts were signed when the respective players were in their prime, in good health and some were being offered bigger contracts to move.

Circumstances have meant some of those contracts don’t look great now but it’s hard to argue they were wrong at the time

You can argue Naitanui should be on a 1 year deal rather than 2. Giving Yeo an extra year on an existing deal in 2022 after 2 injury interrupted years could also be questioned

Two year deals for McGovern and Cripps weren’t raising too many eyebrows prior to their injuries but are now less attractive propositions. Handling those extensions now is problematic given they may already have been signed or agreed to in principle

 

[CountryLad]

This is the draft to go for it and cut deep.

I would do 4 things which would set up put rebuild.

1st. I see us ending up with pick 3. I would float this to WB for their pick 8 and 13.

2nd. I would trade next years first with either GWS or Melb 5/6 and back ourselves to finish 12th or higher

3rd. Adelaide have 2 2nd this year. I would test their appetite to trade F2 and for 22

4th. Trade 22,30,39 to GC for their 1st. Say 4.

We could hit a deep draft with 4, 6,8,13, 21 and 48

Pick up MG in the PSD

Make it happen Pieman

We will have a pretty good indication after round 10 (hawks in tas) where we look likely to finish. We lose the next 4 matches we could finish last.

If we did finish last I think that could open up a lot of draft trade possibilities if the club was open to offers on Reid.

 

[Godfather32]

I get the impression Fremantle thought they had him set with their pick at 21, which is baffling as it was very well known going into the draft that both Melbourne and Brisbane in the picks before them (at 19 & 20) were looking at key prospects, including Van Rooyen.

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

Also whilst Burgiel is being developed down back I fully expect him to go forward. The big knock on his game was defensive accountability.

Wanna see him in the midfield with stints in the forward line.
Just praying his hammy is a one off...

 

[Happy Mastenator]

18 months actually. This only his second season.

Unless you’re also counting his top age draft year.

I was.

 

[garlic munchers]

I really rate some of our picks from that draft, Bazzo and Hough especially.

Even Clark with a very late pick was handy. Provides a seasoned body, sets excellent standards on the training track and provides strong leadership.

Very happy with the last two drafts.

Interesting in the Port game that you can see Clark giving a number of players bollockings for bad skill errors (Gaff got a beauty for a handball that went to a player’s feet and caused a turnover) and for offloading to players in worse positions.

Not sure if it was constructive or pure frustration and probably doesn’t have the credit in the bank to do it, but actually didn’t mind it.

 

[briztoon]

It's easy to reconsider with hindsight of course.

Van Rooyen had an element of apprehension hanging over him as he wasn't 195cm+. Few clubs were in the position to risk having a first round pick develop into no more than a marking third tall. Lost in that concern over his size was that he was clearly the best contested mark in the draft and has that unquantifiable trait which could be termed as "presence" - he imposes himself onto games.

West Coast were never in the hunt for him though. Midfielders, midfielders, midfielders was our requirement. If not Chesser, it would have been Hobbs, Sheldrick, Johnson or Goater, rather than a key forward (especially a potentially undersized one).

Indeed, had the club taken Van Rooyen, he would now be behind Darling, Allen and Waterman and languishing in the Beagles without any supply and probably looking very average as a result.


I get the impression Fremantle thought they had him set with their pick at 21, which is baffling as it was very well known going into the draft that both Melbourne and Brisbane in the picks before them (at 19 & 20) were looking at key prospects, including Van Rooyen.

Speaking to one of our recruiters on draft night, we would have taken Van Rooyen at our second pick in the first round, but we were pretty sure he would be gone by that pick.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Speaking to one of our recruiters on draft night, we would have taken Van Rooyen at our second pick in the first round, but we were pretty sure he would be gone by that pick.

Maybe it was my Claremont bias but I had van Rooyen rated mid teens. I was less keen for us to nab him as we desperately needed midfielders and he looked pretty similar to Oscar and I was hoping for a 198 cm KPF to pair them as our key forwards.

I was happy to take J Williams with our 4th pick as a project. I will patiently wait until the end of 2024 before deciding on what he can do. A low risk and possible high return pick.

 

[ArdentEagle]

I'd be curious to see the informed members of this board and their player rankings from the last few drafts, if you still have them?

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

With big brother's performance last night, I expect the spotlight will go to Sam van Rooyen.

Not sure about others but I have been pleasantly surprised at the improvement in Sam in 2023. He was quite timid in 2022 and my thoughts were that he was a fair way off being drafted. Based on only a small sample size in 2023, he is starting to consistently hit the scoreboard. The test will be can he sustain it and if so, I expect his stocks to rise sharply. He is doing enough for Claremont to play Curtin down back and the club usually prioritise winning early and late. Sam and Daniel are the key talls that are a major reason why Claremont are 3 from 3 and 265%.

By comparison, 2020 was Jacob's bottom age year and he was showing enough AFL attributes then plus he was stamping his mark on games (averaging 2 goals a game). This increased in 2021 when he also played a number of league games for Claremont - split between CHB and CHF. And Claremont were contending so he was not gifted games.

Would Melbourne want Sam? Their 2 young KPF are Jacob and Jefferson. Jefferson is only 195 meaning they would have invested in 3 KPF's that were 195 cm, 193 cm and 193 cm. I sense they would be better off with a KPF closer to 200 cm to balance it out. That said, if they really rate Jacob, little brother as an retention insurance is pretty handy.

Mind you, when Jacob is playing seniors in marque games with a full MCG and 40,000 people chanting "ROOOO", I suspect he will be very happy in Melbourne. Having lived there, it is a great place for a young person to live. Not surprising we have difficulties luring WA draftees back home.

Season WAFL stats for Sam


Season WAFL stats for Jacob

 

[Keys]

With big brother's performance last night, I expect the spotlight will go to Sam van Rooyen.

Not sure about others but I have been pleasantly surprised at the improvement in Sam in 2023. He was quite timid in 2022 and my thoughts were that he was a fair way off being drafted. Based on only a small sample size in 2023, he is starting to consistently hit the scoreboard. The test will be can he sustain it and if so, I expect his stocks to rise sharply. He is doing enough for Claremont to play Curtin down back and the club usually prioritise winning early and late. Sam and Daniel are the key talls that are a major reason why Claremont are 3 from 3 and 265%.

By comparison, 2020 was Jacob's bottom age year and he was showing enough AFL attributes then plus he was stamping his mark on games (averaging 2 goals a game). This increased in 2021 when he also played a number of league games for Claremont - split between CHB and CHF. And Claremont were contending so he was not gifted games.

Would Melbourne want Sam? Their 2 young KPF are Jacob and Jefferson. Jefferson is only 195 meaning they would have invested in 3 KPF's that were 195 cm, 193 cm and 193 cm. I sense they would be better off with a KPF closer to 200 cm to balance it out. That said, if they really rate Jacob, little brother as an retention insurance is pretty handy.

Mind you, when Jacob is playing seniors in marque games with a full MCG and 40,000 people chanting "ROOOO", I suspect he will be very happy in Melbourne. Having lived there, it is a great place for a young person to live. Not surprising we have difficulties luring WA draftees back home.

Season WAFL stats for Sam
View attachment 1669783

Season WAFL stats for Jacob
View attachment 1669785

I’m not a draft expert but I do get the sense that WA players, and probably SA players as well, tend to draw less attention than their Victorian counterparts

If Jacob continues his current rise then Sam will be getting for media attention than is normal for a WA draftee

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

I’m not a draft expert but I do get the sense that WA players, and probably SA players as well, tend to draw less attention than their Victorian counterparts

If Jacob continues his current rise then Sam will be getting for media attention than is normal for a WA draftee

The non WA clubs have built up a significant investment in talent spotters in WA. Mainly part time roles. While the clubs are keeping an eye on what is happening in Perth, the Vic media are lazy pricks and tend to focus on Melbourne, or more specifically Sandringham and Oakley. Gone are the days when Freo and West Coast had the inside running on WA talent. Not sure that has any impact on the club's draft boards.

 

[ArdentEagle]

Is Clay Hall an inside mid, an all rounder or outside?

 

[boondy]

How much of Chesser’s ankle injury is on him? As opposed to how his injury happened?

Can blame a player if someone else smashed their ankle.

Disclosure: I have no idea how his ankle injury occurred.

Chesser's original ankle injury was a heavy push from a docker player while he was airborne marking at pace . Landing awkwardly afterthis . No fault of Chesser .

 

[JackOutback]

We will have a pretty good indication after round 10 (hawks in tas) where we look likely to finish. We lose the next 4 matches we could finish last.

If we did finish last I think that could open up a lot of draft trade possibilities if the club was open to offers on Reid.

Next four games are winnable: Carlton (home), Richmond, GC (home) and Hawthorn. Wont win them all but if we could go into the bye with three wins, I’d be happier.

 

[Cuzz09]

Next four games are winnable: Carlton (home), Richmond, GC (home) and Hawthorn. Wont win them all but if we could go into the bye with three wins, I’d be happier.

I'd be happy with 2 wins by the bye to be honest.

Carl LOSS
rich loss
GC 50/50 WIN
Haw 50/50 loss

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Nuffington Post]

Next four games are winnable: Carlton (home), Richmond, GC (home) and Hawthorn. Wont win them all but if we could go into the bye with three wins, I’d be happier.

3 wins would be a miracle


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

• Hurn has been signing 1 year contract extensions since 2019
• Naitanui signed a 3 year deal as a 29 year old in 2019 which ended last year. He was then extended for 2 more years until next year
• Shuey signed a 4 year extension in 2017 to a contract ending 2018 as a 27 year old. That contract expired last year and he was given a new one year deal
• Gaff signed what was effectively a 6 year deal in 2018 as a 26 year old which expires next year
• Darling signed a 4 year extension in 2019 to a contract ending 2020 as a 27 year old. That contract expires next year
• McGovern signed a 5 year deal in 2018 as a 26 year old which expires this year. Was said to be close to signing a new contract prior to his injury - anticipated to be a 2 year deal which remains TBC
• Cripps signed a 3 year deal in 2020 as a 27 year old which expires this year. Is in the same boat as McGovern re a new contract
• Yeo signed a 5 year deal late 2017 as a 24 year old which was due to expire this year. Another year was added to that contract before the 2022 season presumably for salary cap reasons but that isn’t clear
• Kelly was 25 when we offered him a 6 year deal to cross from Geelong at the end of 2019. He’s on the books until 2025
• Barrass is the only long term deal (5+ years) we’ve signed this decade and that was a 5 year deal in 2021 that takes him to 2027. He was 26 at the time

So for all the noise about the club giving long term contracts to injury prone older players, those contracts were signed when the respective players were in their prime, in good health and some were being offered bigger contracts to move.

Circumstances have meant some of those contracts don’t look great now but it’s hard to argue they were wrong at the time

You can argue Naitanui should be on a 1 year deal rather than 2. Giving Yeo an extra year on an existing deal in 2022 after 2 injury interrupted years could also be questioned

Two year deals for McGovern and Cripps weren’t raising too many eyebrows prior to their injuries but are now less attractive propositions. Handling those extensions now is problematic given they may already have been signed or agreed to in principle

The mooted two year extensions for McGovern and Cripps were only revealed in the media right before they got injured.

If we were a serious club we would not even be negotiating a one year extension for McGovern and Cripps a couple of games into the season. They should have been told that we will verbally commit to offering them a one year extension pending no serious injuries but we’re not willing to talk about money with them or sign any deals until the second half of the year. They need to show they can stay on the park and are still in our best dozen players for half a season before we talk money or sign deals.

If their player managers went to other 17 clubs after Round 2 and asked for a two year deal the answers would range from a flat No to “Come back and talk us after around 18 so we can see how you go”.

Similarly with Yeo - why would you give him a one year extension two or three years out from his current deal expiring?

 

[JackOutback]

I think we can beat GC at home and Hawks in Tassie.

 

[eagles rule]

\

I think Simmo has finally shown he’s open to change and the playing style is looking fresh just need the best 22 on the park to really show it but there is only so long that these results can continue if we have another year with only 2 wins (I think we should win more) it will be time to move on and I think Corey Enright will be the most sort after coach after this season and he’d suit eagles very nicely

I think I`d prefer Buckley judging by the success of recycled coaches Lyon and Scott ..

 

[MrWoollie]

Confirmed ACL for Georgiades

If we are interested, than combined with his form will be around the late second / third round pick mark

You've got to be kidding.

Option 1. Offer future 4th.
Option 2. Offer 4th.
Option 3. Whinge and moan and offer lowest 3rd in our inventory. And only then if it's in the 40s somewhere.
Option 4. Leave him where he is.

Let's be honest here. He is an undersized 3rd tall(ish) who shows a bit but not a lot. Right now he'd be depth for Waterman.

 

[bzparkes]

You've got to be kidding.

Option 1. Offer future 4th.
Option 2. Offer 4th.
Option 3. Whinge and moan and offer lowest 3rd in our inventory. And only then if it's in the 40s somewhere.
Option 4. Leave him where he is.

Let's be honest here. He is an undersized 3rd tall(ish) who shows a bit but not a lot. Right now he'd be depth for Waterman.

You mean let him go through to the PSD, where we'll likely have the first pick?