List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

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2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Current contract status (Updated 31/10/24) ...
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briztoon said:
Outside of splitting pick 1, where are you getting multiple top draft picks from?

Hawthorn didn’t get high draft picks for ditching their mature players, that was half the criticism.

The following is not a criticism or “shot” at your club, it’s just the reality of where you’re at.

You’ve already got limited senior players, because some can’t stay healthy, and others are already past it.

My belief is the list management team doesn’t see any value in delisting them, because they don’t see the value in opening up an extra pick or two in the late 50’s, or 60’s.
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We have picks 1,19,38,38,55,57 based on current ladder positions. We’ll have the following options to generate additional picks:

1) Split pick 1 for at least 2, possibly 3 first round picks depending on how high those picks are
2) Trade our F1 for at least 1, possibly 2 or even 3 picks again depending on how high those picks are
3) Trading a player - albeit Barrass is the only one we’d maybe be willing to let go that would be worth a first round pick
4) Bundling our later picks to a club looking to collect points for their first round pick - I’m not interested in doing the mathematical gymnastics to work out who to and how. Just listing it as an option

There’s pros and cons for each of those options but we should be considering at least one of them to build our draft hand
 
Barrybran said:
The reason why we have no leadership in the middle of our list is going to be multi-faceted and the senior players, as do the coaches, share some responsibility for how that group has developed. But I got home at half time and watched as Shuey and Yeo were still busting their guts when we were 80, 100, 120, 150 points down. I think that quality is something to be desired, even if there is risk involved in keeping them on. Hurn exhibits the same qualities even though I think the game has passed him by.

Hawthorn's scorched earth approach looks good early days but I'm not sure that is the right approach. Yes, we don't want to clog up our list with blokes that are going to be injured half the season but I think there is something to be gained having these guys showing the likes of Ginbey, Hewett and co. rather than leaving it up to others.
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I don't think anyone is arguing that shuey is still a valuable player, but the best ability is availability and the question is will he be be able to get through 12-15 games when it matters (I.e., not after the season has already been disaster).

I do hope he continues but also concede that if we re-sign him and he is injured multiple times next year the club can't keep playing the injury card. Unfortunately that expired last year for him and many other senior players
 
Keys said:
We have picks 1,19,38,38,55,57 based on current ladder positions. We’ll have the following options to generate additional picks:

1) Split pick 1 for at least 2, possibly 3 first round picks depending on how high those picks are
2) Trade our F1 for at least 1, possibly 2 or even 3 picks again depending on how high those picks are
3) Trading a player - albeit Barrass is the only one we’d maybe be willing to let go that would be worth a first round pick
4) Bundling our later picks to a club looking to collect points for their first round pick - I’m not interested in doing the mathematical gymnastics to work out who to and how. Just listing it as an option

There’s pros and cons for each of those options but we should be considering at least one of them to build our draft hand
Click to expand...
If we trade out next years first I'll spew. Its bound to be the number 1 again

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Keys said:
We have picks 1,19,38,38,55,57 based on current ladder positions. We’ll have the following options to generate additional picks:

1) Split pick 1 for at least 2, possibly 3 first round picks depending on how high those picks are
2) Trade our F1 for at least 1, possibly 2 or even 3 picks again depending on how high those picks are
3) Trading a player - albeit Barrass is the only one we’d maybe be willing to let go that would be worth a first round pick
4) Bundling our later picks to a club looking to collect points for their first round pick - I’m not interested in doing the mathematical gymnastics to work out who to and how. Just listing it as an option

There’s pros and cons for each of those options but we should be considering at least one of them to build our draft hand
Click to expand...
I'm curious as to why Barrass would be one that we'd maybe be willing to let go of? Our KPD stocks are not good. We have perma-injured 31 year old Gov, perma-injured and likely not up to it Hedwards and the very raw/undersized Bazzo. If Barrass were to leave we would be even more screwed for a very long time given how long it can take to draft and develop a quality KPD.

if Barrass leaves then get ready to see Allen waste a large chunk of his career as a full back in a bottom side.
 
ROO DOGG said:
Exactly this. He has been the heart and soul of the Eagles since he was drafted. Anyone throwing Shuey shade should go back watch the 2018 GF then uppercut themselves in the balls. We really dont need your offspring taking oxygen away from everyone else. And if you already have offspring make them wear purple for the rest of the night. KENTS.
Click to expand...
Piss off his idea of leadership this year is niggle and cheap shots too the young kids of the other team .

Vs the crows he was a disgrace not what a captain should be doing .

If he wants to stay on sure take him as a rookie and pay him 100k + match fees .

See how keen he really is
 
eaglesfan84 said:
I think if we split the picks, we need to go after some good "mid" age players through trading rather than draft two more 18 year olds, we'll get enough with other picks and already have a bunch of them on our list atm. The young players won't learn much if we're getting pumped 100 points every game for a further twelve months with senior guys hardly ever taking the field.

If we don't split the pick we go for Reid whether he likes it or not, whether the Vic's like it or not.
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No way on earth should you be splitting pick 1 to on then trade those picks for "good" players. Because you'll get 18 year olds with your later picks.

There's so much wrong with this.

First, those 18 year olds you're talking about are the lesser quality 18 year olds, with a higher chance of NOT making it.

Secondly, who are the "good" mid aged players you have in mind?

You need top quality mids or top quality KPP's with those picks, and you're only likely to get 1 at that price. I can't think of a quality WA mid in that age group, I mean there's SPP, but he comes with some baggage. There's Naughton obviously, but he's not leaving the Bulldogs to join you this off season.
 
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briztoon said:
Outside of splitting pick 1, where are you getting multiple top draft picks from?

Hawthorn didn’t get high draft picks for ditching their mature players, that was half the criticism.

The following is not a criticism or “shot” at your club, it’s just the reality of where you’re at.

You’ve already got limited senior players, because some can’t stay healthy, and others are already past it.

My belief is the list management team doesn’t see any value in delisting them, because they don’t see the value in opening up an extra pick or two in the late 50’s, or 60’s.
Click to expand...
Think you've misunderstood his point.

My take of it was with gutting the senior players we are in for a longer rebuild at the bottom which ultimately means more draft picks.
 
Keys said:
We have picks 1,19,38,38,55,57 based on current ladder positions. We’ll have the following options to generate additional picks:

1) Split pick 1 for at least 2, possibly 3 first round picks depending on how high those picks are
2) Trade our F1 for at least 1, possibly 2 or even 3 picks again depending on how high those picks are
3) Trading a player - albeit Barrass is the only one we’d maybe be willing to let go that would be worth a first round pick
4) Bundling our later picks to a club looking to collect points for their first round pick - I’m not interested in doing the mathematical gymnastics to work out who to and how. Just listing it as an option

There’s pros and cons for each of those options but we should be considering at least one of them to build our draft hand
Click to expand...
I support trading picks 38 and 38 for a first rounder.
briztoon said:
No way on earth should you be splitting pick 1 to on then trade those picks for "good" players. Because you'll get 18 year olds with your later picks.

There's so much wrong with this.

First, those 18 year olds you're talking about are the lesser quality 18 year olds, with a higher chance of NOT making it.

Secondly, who are the "good" mid aged players you have in mind?

You need top quality mids or top quality KPP's with those picks, and you're only likely to get 1 at that price. I can't think of a quality WA mid in that age group, I mean there's SPS, but he comes with some baggage. There's Naughton obviously, but he's not leaving the Bulldogs to join you this off season.
Click to expand...
I don’t support giving up picks to keep SPS on our list.
 
Keys said:
We have picks 1,19,38,38,55,57 based on current ladder positions. We’ll have the following options to generate additional picks:

1) Split pick 1 for at least 2, possibly 3 first round picks depending on how high those picks are
2) Trade our F1 for at least 1, possibly 2 or even 3 picks again depending on how high those picks are
3) Trading a player - albeit Barrass is the only one we’d maybe be willing to let go that would be worth a first round pick
4) Bundling our later picks to a club looking to collect points for their first round pick - I’m not interested in doing the mathematical gymnastics to work out who to and how. Just listing it as an option

There’s pros and cons for each of those options but we should be considering at least one of them to build our draft hand
Click to expand...
I did mention, without splitting your first pick (and I should have included not trading your future first).

I was asking Chump Change, because he was talking about going Hawthorn's scorched earth model of trading out all the older players, and mentioned getting in high end picks in the same post.

I wondered where the high end picks were coming from, without trading pick 1.


As for the maths of some of your other options; picks 19, 36 and 38 probably get your Gold Coasts first, or picks 36, 38 probably get you Gold Coasts pick 28.
 
ep2018 said:
The concern shouldn't be whether get get a PP (we wont) but whether North get one if they finish on two or three wins imo. No point talking about what to do with pick 1 when the AFL may pluck some bullshit out of the air about how we are in our predicament because of injury and mismanagement and then they give a long struggling club that pick due to some weird, hidden back room calculation.

I doubt they get pick 1 but, just saying, if Reid has a sook about having to play for us and potentially the AFLPA get involved, or the idea that pick 1 is traded two seasons in a row is a 'bad look', plus a good opportunity to kill priority picks off for good due to the inevitable outrage from 17 other clubs, the temptation might be there.
Click to expand...

The AFL aren’t giving North pick 1, they’d be sued instantly.
 

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Keys said:
We have picks 1,19,38,38,55,57 based on current ladder positions. We’ll have the following options to generate additional picks:

1) Split pick 1 for at least 2, possibly 3 first round picks depending on how high those picks are
2) Trade our F1 for at least 1, possibly 2 or even 3 picks again depending on how high those picks are
3) Trading a player - albeit Barrass is the only one we’d maybe be willing to let go that would be worth a first round pick
4) Bundling our later picks to a club looking to collect points for their first round pick - I’m not interested in doing the mathematical gymnastics to work out who to and how. Just listing it as an option

There’s pros and cons for each of those options but we should be considering at least one of them to build our draft hand
Click to expand...
1) Don't split unless its for 3x top 10 picks.
2) 100% keep our future 1st.
3) Only untouchables are Allen, Barnett, Hewett, Long, Maric, Burgiel, Ginbey.
4) 36 +38 -> anything #25 or below.
5) I think we are likely to trade #19 on draft night. Likely for 25ish & a future 2nd. Anything further back we should take the quality option.
 
Annoying to lose a player like Jake Waterman when its someone on your list worth keeping but looks like thats what will happen.

Raises the need to just get Mitch Georgiades in I suppose as a like for like swap. Now it becomes a no brainer to get him in
 
  • Jack Petruccelle (12/4/99) - Signed a 3 year extension (2021,2022,2023) in October 2020- EXTEND
  • Jake Waterman (6/5/98) - Signed a 3 year extension (2021,2022,2023) in October 2020-EXTEND
  • Sam Petrevski-Seton (19/2/98) - Signed a 2 year contract (2022,2023) in October 2021-DELIST
  • Luke Foley (8/10/99) - Signed a 2 year extension (2022,2023) in October 2021-DELIST
  • Xavier O’Neill (3/8/00) - Signed a 2 year extension (2022,2023) in October 2021-DELIST
  • Jack Williams (1/12/03) - Automatic 2 year contract when drafted in December 2021-EXTEND
  • Greg Clarke (24/5/97) - Automatic 2 year contract when drafted in December 2021-DELIST
  • (R) Jai Culley (24/2/03) - Nominated 18 month contract when drafted via Mid season draft 2022-EXTEND
  • Luke Shuey (2/6/90) - Signed a 1 year extension (2023) in August 2022-EXTEND
  • Alex Witherden (10/9/98) - Signed a 2 year contract (2021,2022,) in November 2020 that was extended to 2023 at some stage-DELIST
  • (R) Connor West (7/5/99) - Signed a 1 year extension (2023) as a rookie in November 2022-EXTEND
  • Shannon Hurn (4/9/87) – Signed a 1 year extension (2023) in November 2022-RETIRE
  • (R) Isiah Winder (16/5/02) - redrafted via the rookie draft in November 2022 on a 1 year deal-DELIST
  • (R) Zane Trew (26/4/02) - redrafted via the rookie draft in November 2022 on a 1 year deal-DELIST
  • (R-B) Tyrell Dewar (27/3/04) - added as a Cat B rookie in November 2022 on a 1 year deal-DELIST
  • (R-B) Jordyn Baker (10/5/04) - added as a Cat B rookie in November 2022 on a 1 year deal-DELIST
 
briztoon said:
I did mention, without splitting your first pick (and I should have included not trading your future first).

I was asking Chump Change, because he was talking about going Hawthorn's scorched earth model of trading out all the older players, and mentioned getting in high end picks in the same post.

I wondered where the high end picks were coming from, without trading pick 1.


As for the maths of some of your other options; picks 19, 36 and 38 probably get your Gold Coasts first, or picks 36, 38 probably get you Gold Coasts pick 28.
Click to expand...
Let me clarify:

I re-read the post and had to edit it because I put do instead of don't accidentally.

Just to be clear: I absolutely do not think trading for mature players with organic draft picks is a good idea. I think it's super dumb. Maybe a Dev Robbo or a Brockman here or there, but right now, go to the draft.

I don't mind scorched Earth as long as its for picks. Clarko offloaded players and brought in Wingard, Mitchell, and O'Meara. I would have offloaded the players but for picks in return. Sort of like what Sam Mitchell did.

Our scorched earth is different - our older players are either spuds or can't stay on the park. So we have the equivalent of scorched Earth, just not our choosing.

As for getting high end picks - I've never said anything about high end picks. There's 3 scenarios here:

1. Simmo coaches next year and the senior players show for the remainder of 2023 that they DGAF
2. Simmo gets sacked and the senior players smarten TFU
3. Simmo gets sacked and the senior players still don't respond

If options 1 or 3 transpire then we have a problem. We need senior players to mentor or carry the load for the younger players. If we have players that don't want to do that, we need to find some who can.

That means fire selling current senior players who are worth f-all and trading in experienced players who are also worth f-all. We're talking Huge Greenwood, Mitch Robinson types. Players who have played 100 games and either can't get a game, recently delisted, maybe half decent players where clubs want to offload the salary.

I'm not saying this is what we use for our next flag. I'm saying if there's a cancer among our senior players, f them off and get some other players who have some experience and will at least have a crack. Jayden Hunt and Rhys Mathieson types that cost a ****teenth of f-all. 2-3 season while younger players transition in.
 
footballfreak said:
  • Jack Petruccelle (12/4/99) - Signed a 3 year extension (2021,2022,2023) in October 2020- EXTEND
  • Jake Waterman (6/5/98) - Signed a 3 year extension (2021,2022,2023) in October 2020-EXTEND
  • Sam Petrevski-Seton (19/2/98) - Signed a 2 year contract (2022,2023) in October 2021-DELIST
  • Luke Foley (8/10/99) - Signed a 2 year extension (2022,2023) in October 2021-DELIST
  • Xavier O’Neill (3/8/00) - Signed a 2 year extension (2022,2023) in October 2021-DELIST
  • Jack Williams (1/12/03) - Automatic 2 year contract when drafted in December 2021-EXTEND
  • Greg Clarke (24/5/97) - Automatic 2 year contract when drafted in December 2021-DELIST
  • (R) Jai Culley (24/2/03) - Nominated 18 month contract when drafted via Mid season draft 2022-EXTEND
  • Luke Shuey (2/6/90) - Signed a 1 year extension (2023) in August 2022-EXTEND
  • Alex Witherden (10/9/98) - Signed a 2 year contract (2021,2022,) in November 2020 that was extended to 2023 at some stage-DELIST
  • (R) Connor West (7/5/99) - Signed a 1 year extension (2023) as a rookie in November 2022-EXTEND
  • Shannon Hurn (4/9/87) – Signed a 1 year extension (2023) in November 2022-RETIRE
  • (R) Isiah Winder (16/5/02) - redrafted via the rookie draft in November 2022 on a 1 year deal-DELIST
  • (R) Zane Trew (26/4/02) - redrafted via the rookie draft in November 2022 on a 1 year deal-DELIST
  • (R-B) Tyrell Dewar (27/3/04) - added as a Cat B rookie in November 2022 on a 1 year deal-DELIST
  • (R-B) Jordyn Baker (10/5/04) - added as a Cat B rookie in November 2022 on a 1 year deal-DELIST
Click to expand...
We'll prob need more than six list spots on the main list as we really should be bringing in:
5 picks via the main draft
2 fringe/free mature aged players (such as Robertson, Georgiadis, etc).

Means either Shuey retires (likely) or you move Williams to the rookie list or both.
 
TerryFilk said:
I can’t lie but most of the prospects this season don’t move me that much, I think pretty much all of them have red flags besides Reid and Walter.
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The potential 3 GWS 1st round picks 5, 6 and 7 in that Power Ranking could land Curtin, Caddy and Wilson. Three highly rated kids, a CHB, a CHF and one of the best half back / wings.

Could go Edwards if we want a ruck dont think we will.

19 was Delean.

I'd be happy with Curtin, Caddy, Wilson and Delean.

Id be rapt if Caddy went earlier and one of Duursma or Watson slid to us.
 
squashface said:
I'm curious as to why Barrass would be one that we'd maybe be willing to let go of? Our KPD stocks are not good. We have perma-injured 31 year old Gov, perma-injured and likely not up to it Hedwards and the very raw/undersized Bazzo. If Barrass were to leave we would be even more screwed for a very long time given how long it can take to draft and develop a quality KPD.

if Barrass leaves then get ready to see Allen waste a large chunk of his career as a full back in a bottom side.
Click to expand...
Because he's about the only player we have with currency. You can find KPDs reasonably easily. I'd rather take a 1st rounder for him, trade in some spud offcut to hold the fort for a few seasons, and wait until we find our next KPD with a later pick.

Bazzo is raw but he's not undersized. He'll end up as good if not better than Barrass.
 
TerryFilk said:
I can’t lie but most of the prospects this season don’t move me that much, I think pretty much all of them have red flags besides Reid and Walter.
Click to expand...

Whats your red flag on Curtin?
 
Chump Change said:
Let me clarify:

I re-read the post and had to edit it because I put do instead of don't accidentally.

Just to be clear: I absolutely do not think trading for mature players with organic draft picks is a good idea. I think it's super dumb. Maybe a Dev Robbo or a Brockman here or there, but right now, go to the draft.

I don't mind scorched Earth as long as its for picks. Clarko offloaded players and brought in Wingard, Mitchell, and O'Meara. I would have offloaded the players but for picks in return. Sort of like what Sam Mitchell did.

Our scorched earth is different - our older players are either spuds or can't stay on the park. So we have the equivalent of scorched Earth, just not our choosing.

As for getting high end picks - I've never said anything about high end picks. There's 3 scenarios here:

1. Simmo coaches next year and the senior players show for the remainder of 2023 that they DGAF
2. Simmo gets sacked and the senior players smarten TFU
3. Simmo gets sacked and the senior players still don't respond

If options 1 or 3 transpire then we have a problem. We need senior players to mentor or carry the load for the younger players. If we have players that don't want to do that, we need to find some who can.

That means fire selling current senior players who are worth f-all and trading in experienced players who are also worth f-all. We're talking Huge Greenwood, Mitch Robinson types. Players who have played 100 games and either can't get a game, recently delisted, maybe half decent players where clubs want to offload the salary.

I'm not saying this is what we use for our next flag. I'm saying if there's a cancer among our senior players, f them off and get some other players who have some experience and will at least have a crack. Jayden Hunt and Rhys Mathieson types that cost a NTTAWWTteenth of f-all. 2-3 season while younger players transition in.
Click to expand...
Gotcha.

Honestly I wouldn't go for Mathieson. He's not AFL standard. He's shopped himself the last two trade periods and had no interest. He's a good VFL player, but his kick is still shocking, and so to his decision making at time.

I don't know other teams lists at all, so I don't know what other players that might be available, but from the Lions list I'd consider Robertson, Prior, and Ah Chee. They are all AFL standard, physically developed and are leaders on the field (we see this in the VFL), but each in a different way. Yes, they are all WA players, but they are currently our best players outside our best 22.

Jarryd Lyons is cooked, can still play the centre bounce and stoppages, but is incapable of spreading beyond his own arm reach.
 
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