List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

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The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew, Baker Requested Trades - Barrass, Darling Current contract status (Updated 18/9/24) : Total 41 Players (Pending Trades) - Main List (35) Rookie List (4) Cat B (2) Contracted to 2028 (2) : Liam Duggan (11/12/96) - Signed a 4 year...

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Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

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[Miguel Sanchez]

Will they though?

Scott Pendlebury was a priority pick (and yes, I know it was technically Daisy but the pies took him first so without the priority pick they don't get Pendlebury). Has anyone ever suggested that everything the pies have touched since been tainted by being given handouts? (...apart from me, now )

No, because they tend not to look closely enough to identify what you have - so they tell us Judd and Shuey were priority picks when in fact the players we got as a result of getting priority picks were Sampi and Swift.

 

[Barrybran]

No, because they tend not to look closely enough to identify what you have - so they tell us Judd and Shuey were priority picks when in fact the players we got as a result of getting priority picks were Sampi and Swift.

There's a solid argument NOT to get priority picks

 

[ghostbat12]

Behind a paywall as usual but I dont see why we dont at least apply for a priority pick. Are we worried about the stigma or something. Bad management if we dont at least try, I wouldve thought.



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I think the club has been told we won’t get anything. Dillon in his interview after he got the job already gave few reasons why we wouldn’t.

 

[brabs]

Also the PP we got for darling (pick 26) was compensation because we finished last and got pick 4 (gaff) because GC got picks 1 2 and 3

That pick was because we had 4 wins for the season and more than 4 the previous season. Which was an end of first round priority pick. The rules changed a few years later. Was nothing to do getting pick 4 for coming last.

 

[Eddie_Sandbrah]

I think the club has been told we won’t get anything. Dillon in his interview after he got the job already gave few reasons why we wouldn’t.

I think we're okay sitting it out and watch what they do with North.

The whole Riley Sanders thing is a joke and I'm glad it appears the AFL have poured cold water on it. The AFL can't have any club pulling this BS. They also can't give them any pick inside the first round, nor our #19. You just can't keep justifying penalising 17 other clubs because one club keeps making bad decisions. Norf are like the bad apple meth head son of the AFL.

The AFL must have talked about 19 teams and how they will get the comp to even teams. If they are thinking of culling, you'd think we'd see some push back on Norf and give them not much.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

If West Coast want anything, best chance I see is to request the AFL fund the reserve competition nationally. Freo alignment is working because Peel had been pathetic prior and a soulless club.


Now the AFL will unlikely allow that so we ask for a compromise that we fund but not against the soft cap and not against list numbers

We request 10 rookies that are not counted against the 42 players or 3 Cat B. Ability to get earlier access to our NGA for this new category and ability to rookie from the WAFL. We then get to pick up the likes of Ryan, Kelly, Martin etc early. Or in 2023, Collard, Livingston, Bastos Hines join us along with half a dozen players that missed out in prior drafts. With 10 extra per year, surely our recruiters can start taking more risk in recruiting for this group and I’d expect a few more gems. Examples would be Kelly in 2016, Buller a couple of years ago, Gilbey this year (assuming favourable medical), not wasting a main list spot with Gorter, etc. Players who missed out being drafted but may well make it

There would need to be a transparent mechanism to bring players into our main list.

Biggest benefit for the AFL - they keep their wallets in their pockets and it can be sold as a benefit for local football

 

[Phas]

If West Coast want anything, best chance I see is to request the AFL fund the reserve competition nationally. Freo alignment is working because Peel had been pathetic prior and a soulless club.


Now the AFL will unlikely allow that so we ask for a compromise that we fund but not against the soft cap and not against list numbers

We request 10 rookies that are not counted against the 42 players or 3 Cat B. Ability to get earlier access to our NGA for this new category and ability to rookie from the WAFL. We then get to pick up the likes of Ryan, Kelly, Martin etc early. Or in 2023, Collard, Livingston, Bastos Hines join us along with half a dozen players that missed out in prior drafts. With 10 extra per year, surely our recruiters can start taking more risk in recruiting for this group and I’d expect a few more gems. Examples would be Kelly in 2016, Buller a couple of years ago, Gilbey this year (assuming favourable medical), not wasting a main list spot with Gorter, etc. Players who missed out being drafted but may well make it

There would need to be a transparent mechanism to bring players into our main list.

Biggest benefit for the AFL - they keep their wallets in their pockets and it can be sold as a benefit for local football

If WCE would actually be let build a proper reserves team (either WAFL as current or AFL reserves league) with a similar set of expansion rules as what GC had when they joined the AFL; such as larger list etc. We could literally spend up and have the best state team in the country.

Spend up using our cash on development coaches through the reserves team.

It would be a great pipeline for WA talent to come through.

 

[Eddie_Sandbrah]

If West Coast want anything, best chance I see is to request the AFL fund the reserve competition nationally.

They certainly need to look at this and crunch some numbers and do some modelling to see if they can do something better than the current system that is also financially viable.

 

[Eddie_Sandbrah]

If WCE would actually be let build a proper reserves team (either WAFL as current or AFL reserves league) with a similar set of expansion rules as what GC had when they joined the AFL; such as larger list etc. We could literally spend up and have the best state team in the country.

Spend up using our cash on development coaches through the reserves team.

It would be a great pipeline for WA talent to come through.

You're sort of saying, "hey AFL, give us concessions that allow us to be the biggest and best". That's called Eddie McGuire Syndrome.

They have to find something that is fair and financially viable. Not easy. But they do have to workshop the whole system to see if there is something better. The Adelaide teams seem to be doing okay. Is it just cycles, or are they doing something better than us, or are we unfairly restricted?

 

[twce13]

I think the club has been told we won’t get anything. Dillon in his interview after he got the job already gave few reasons why we wouldn’t.

This is the odd thing tho. Eagles were shut down and reasons giving why their form looked worse then it is.. and I accept that. But is it not the same with norf ? Their hall of fame in waiting coach out all season due to unforseen circumstances, but back next season. Their own injuries, a young list already with extensive talent.. you don't even need to squint to see are on the up. Absolute JK if they get a single thing from the AFL.

Such a stupidly run sport. Dillion has a chance to show the sport will have more integrity under his tenure, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Eddie_Sandbrah]

This is the odd thing tho. Eagles were shut down and reasons giving why their form looked worse then it is.. and I accept that. But is it not the same with norf ? Their hall fo fame in waiting coach out all season due to unforseen circumstances, but back next season. Their own injuries, a young list already with extensive talent.. you don't even need to squint to see are on the up. Absolute JK if they get a single thing from the AFL.

Such a stupidly run sport. Dillion has a chance to show the sport will have more integrity under his tenure, but I'm not holding my breath.

One of my issues is, their list is pretty good. The penny will drop soon. The midfield of Uniacke, Simpkin, Wardlaw, Sheezel, Thomas, Scott, Phillips, is going to be hard to beat in 3 seasons time. All they need is a couple of KPD's to step up, a extra KPF, and the rest fall into place. I have the list way ahead of many teams above them on the ladder.

The AFL shouldn't be giving them anything.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

I would be more inclined to ask the afl for more soft cap space .

One of the biggest needs when you are in a rebuild and bringing in heaps of young players in development coaches .

The fact we are the wooden spoon team with one of the highest paid coaches is just crazy and will hinder our ability to provide enough development for these young draftees.

I doubt they will get much development out of our beagles side .

Having guys like gaff and sheed playing wafl could be a really good thing for our development

 

[Dark Sharks]

Exactly. Soft Cap space doesn't compromise an already compromised draft any further.

There's already free agency, father son picks, academy bullshit and an impending Tazzy team expansion doing that.



Draft needs to get back to being what it once was.

 

[bzparkes]

This is the odd thing tho. Eagles were shut down and reasons giving why their form looked worse then it is.. and I accept that. But is it not the same with norf ? Their hall of fame in waiting coach out all season due to unforseen circumstances, but back next season. Their own injuries, a young list already with extensive talent.. you don't even need to squint to see are on the up. Absolute JK if they get a single thing from the AFL.

Such a stupidly run sport. Dillion has a chance to show the sport will have more integrity under his tenure, but I'm not holding my breath.

North have been worse for 2 years longer, for starters.

Also, Nisbett said WCE wouldn't be asking for a PP, before he met with the AFL.

Personally, I'd prefer the club just backed themselves in to improve. I'd be pretty worried as a supporter if my club was continuously asking for handouts. Wouldn't have much faith in them getting any meaningful on-field success.

North will improve through sheer talent but I'm not sure their off-field culture and leadership will get them the ultimate prize.

 

[Elite Pete]

I don’t want a PP but we are more deserving then some.

Lost 2 first round picks to retirement due to concussion. One still had a few years left Shep and the other had a decade Venables.

 

[Jed Clampet]

I would just ask to match any bids for one NGA player if bid on early for any team that wins 4 or less over 2 years, but you don’t any other handouts or priority picks.

 

[ArdentEagle]

**** it - I'd do a rattler and ask for all top 10 draft picks....For the next decade!

 

[Wooshaaaa]

Just hold fire.

If we have another shit year and end up on bottom with pick one we then ask for a PP and get pick 2 as well.

Then take 2 of

Draper, O'Sullivan, Moraes, Smillie, jagar.

Watch the Victorian media go into full meltdown.

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[shooshka]

I would just ask to match any bids for one NGA player if bid on early for any team that wins 4 or less over 2 years, but you don’t any other handouts or priority picks.

Academy and NGA is almost the root cause of the problem though.

Nth get pick 2&3 this year (McKay isn’t worth 3, but Frawley wasn’t years ago either), take Walter and Curtin/McKercher - how much better does their rebuild look?

Alternatively we trade back to #2 for Walter and Nth get Reid.

Or, if teams are allowed to match get rid of the discount, and ideally make them chase a pick in the same round. So 4 moves up to 2 (instead of a bundle of 2nd rounders), and GC need to chase more 1st rounders if they want to match the other 2 in the top 10-12.

F/S, is what it is but remove the discount.

Nth would be better already (plus in future) with any of the above changes. Way too much benefit is going to decent/competitive teams


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[daddy_4_eyes]

Okay, so the old system was less than 8 wins over a 2 year period (or something like that). The only reason they changed it is so teams don't tank for it. We've romped that in. And for whatever reason, only known to Simmo, we didn't tank.

But we won a flag 5 years ago, and the injuries have really increased our shitness. If we have another year of 4 wins or less (very possible), then I think, if we ask, the AFL has to cough up.

So why didn't Trev ask for one? I suspect he already had an "off the record" chat and knew we would be knocked back.

On a personal level, I have no pride issue asking for one. My issue is, a) I think we can build with out it, b) I'm not keen on them in general. I don't like a team parachuting in and taking a pick in front of another club. Imagine if the AFL took "Our Harley" off us, and gave him to North. I'd go set the closest trailer park on fire in protest, c) If the AFL are ever going to cull a club, it's soon (no, I don't think they have the balls). And if that does happen, I want our club not to have a recent history of tin panning.

And before the 8 wins over 2 years system there was the "less than 5 wins in any season" system. Hodge, Ball and Judd were taken under that system where 3 teams qualified for priority picks. So we've qualified under each of the last 2 systems.

Flag in 2018 is irrelevant to the discussion.
The AFL is adamant their rules are intended to encourage an even competition. With 5 wins across 2 seasons, we're clearly nowhere near competitive to the rest of the teams. If the AFL wants priority picks to help clubs catch up who might otherwise spend an excessive time on the bottom, we should be getting one right now and not after another 2-3 years down the bottom.

Norf receiving an assistance package now, after 5 years at the bottom, feels like it's a couple years too late. Any kid drafted with pick 11 won't be helping Norf win games for 3-4 years at least. That's a decade after their rebuild began.

 

[Eddie_Sandbrah]

Academy and NGA is almost the root cause of the problem though.

Nth get pick 2&3 this year (McKay isn’t worth 3, but Frawley wasn’t years ago either), take Walter and Curtin/McKercher - how much better does their rebuild look?

Alternatively we trade back to #2 for Walter and Nth get Reid.

Or, if teams are allowed to match get rid of the discount, and ideally make them chase a pick in the same round. So 4 moves up to 2 (instead of a bundle of 2nd rounders), and GC need to chase more 1st rounders if they want to match the other 2 in the top 10-12.

F/S, is what it is but remove the discount.

Nth would be better already (plus in future) with any of the above changes. Way too much benefit is going to decent/competitive teams


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The NGA is critical though. If you don't want NGA, then you don't want a national competition, and you do want to be complacent as a code.

The NGA allows the AFL to basically poach kids from a young age from other sports, and allows them a pathway to a local AFL team. It's critical to growing the sport in Rugby League heartland.

There's a game next Saturday as a curtain raiser to the GF. It's some of the best 17 year olds in the country. There's a kid playing called Mitch Woods. He already has a contract on the table with the Canterbury Bulldogs. He's a top 2 prospect in the Swans Academy. This guy is no Chris Judd, but he's a potential to get drafted. If he gets drafted, the effect he has on his wider community in Sydney? It's huge. "Hey, did you hear Mitch got drafted into the AFL". It tells everyone around that the AFL is a real prospect. It tells elite kids who have a body shape more suited to AFL than League, that there is a real pathway.

The more kids who grow up in non-AFL territory and make it in the AFL, the more the game grows in those areas.

When you have these teams in non-AFL territories, and fill them full of Victorians, most of them just leave because they want to play for a big Victorian club. Shiel, Treloar, Taranto, Hopper, Bruce, Dixon, Cameron.... You have to have mechanisms to grow local talent. Without it, those teams aren't really sustainable.

The truth is, those pan handling campaigners make bad decision after bad decision.

 

[Eddie_Sandbrah]

And before the 8 wins over 2 years system there was the "less than 5 wins in any season" system. Hodge, Ball and Judd were taken under that system where 3 teams qualified for priority picks. So we've qualified under each of the last 2 systems.

Flag in 2018 is irrelevant to the discussion.
The AFL is adamant their rules are intended to encourage an even competition. With 5 wins across 2 seasons, we're clearly nowhere near competitive to the rest of the teams. If the AFL wants priority picks to help clubs catch up who might otherwise spend an excessive time on the bottom, we should be getting one right now and not after another 2-3 years down the bottom.

Norf receiving an assistance package now, after 5 years at the bottom, feels like it's a couple years too late. Any kid drafted with pick 11 won't be helping Norf win games for 3-4 years at least. That's a decade after their rebuild began.

I don't necessarily disagree. Your argument is sound.

But ask yourself, do you like a system where we're constantly propping up the same club? I'm not just talking the draft here - they're had all sorts of bail outs over years.

There's a crunch point right now. The AFL must have had discussions around how they get back to even teams when Tas come in. Every club knows 9 clubs in Melbourne is too many. Everyone knows further expansion is too soon. This is a point, where if clubs are brave, and the AFL are brave, the kick those campaigners to the curb. To do that, it's better to not be grabbing other club's draft positions. Yeah, maybe next year ask for earlier bidding access on an NGA, but let's keep quiet and see what unfolds. I don't have high hopes, but if it's going to happen, it's soon.

 

[UseR2006]

Fixing the NGA system isn't actually that difficult there is just no will from the AFL to do so.
Have it so the only way to match an NGA pick in the first round is with a first round pick.
Have the rule be equal for all clubs across the comp.
Then from 2nd round onwards you can just match as you can now.

None of this post 40 rubbish for select clubs. Keeps the rules even across the comp.
Still provides incentives for all clubs to invest in their NGAs unlike now where really it's NSW/QLD where they are incentivised.

For the Draft have no PP and the only assistance available to clubs is through Soft Cap and facility grants, etc..

And for those saying North have been worse for longer. Maybe Sacking a coach every 1-2years hasn't helped and Gutting their list of experience also wasn't the wisest of decisions.

 

[Eddie_Sandbrah]

Fixing the NGA system isn't actually that difficult there is just no will from the AFL to do so.
Have it so the only way to match an NGA pick in the first round is with a first round pick.
Have the rule be equal for all clubs across the comp.
Then from 2nd round onwards you can just match as you can now.

None of this post 40 rubbish for select clubs. Keeps the rules even across the comp.
Still provides incentives for all clubs to invest in their NGAs unlike now where really it's NSW/QLD where they are incentivised.

For the Draft have no PP and the only assistance available to clubs is through Soft Cap and facility grants, etc..

And for those saying North have been worse for longer. Maybe Sacking a coach every 1-2years hasn't helped and Gutting their list of experience also wasn't the wisest of decisions.

You need to provide an advantage to clubs in non-AFL territories. AFL heartland clubs have a history of pillaging these clubs of talent at the back end, so give them the advantage at the front end.

We're in the top 2 biggest sporting clubs in the country and you're getting upset at some concessions offered to minnows? I bet you're typing this with some caviar and glass of chardy. You may even be wearing a skipper's costume.

 

[shooshka]

The NGA is critical though. If you don't want NGA, then you don't want a national competition, and you do want to be complacent as a code.

The NGA allows the AFL to basically poach kids from a young age from other sports, and allows them a pathway to a local AFL team. It's critical to growing the sport in Rugby League heartland.

There's a game next Saturday as a curtain raiser to the GF. It's some of the best 17 year olds in the country. There's a kid playing called Mitch Woods. He already has a contract on the table with the Canterbury Bulldogs. He's a top 2 prospect in the Swans Academy. This guy is no Chris Judd, but he's a potential to get drafted. If he gets drafted, the effect he has on his wider community in Sydney? It's huge. "Hey, did you hear Mitch got drafted into the AFL". It tells everyone around that the AFL is a real prospect. It tells elite kids who have a body shape more suited to AFL than League, that there is a real pathway.

The more kids who grow up in non-AFL territory and make it in the AFL, the more the game grows in those areas.

When you have these teams in non-AFL territories, and fill them full of Victorians, most of them just leave because they want to play for a big Victorian club. Shiel, Treloar, Taranto, Hopper, Bruce, Dixon, Cameron.... You have to have mechanisms to grow local talent. Without it, those teams aren't really sustainable.

The truth is, those pan handling campaigners make bad decision after bad decision.

Heeney, Blakey, Hodge (in a couple of years).

The Academies are converting some decent players to AFL, but also allowing clubs to grab guys (noting the academy help likely improved them as juniors) who were always going to be AFL players.

Is the loss of significant talent in regional WA (for different reasons) also not an issue.

Parts of SA would have similar problems.

AFL run academies - no issue with that, and if the argument is ‘but players may not want to leave their state’ - um isn’t that the huge problem we have been battling with for a while… let’s not encourage it!


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