List Mgmt. Contracts, trades, draft - 2022 superstar edition

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players -

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R) Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Current contract status (Updated 18/10/24) : Total 39 Players -...

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[Ambrose Burnside]

KPDs more often than not can be found later in the draft. Elite mids, much harder.

Keen for this point to be argued for 5 pages again.

(not really)

 

[Keys]

IMO - Bailey Banfield >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Langdon, West, Nelson, Witherden, Trew, Foley, Joyce (could have been good), Naish, *Clark, *Dixon *L.Edwards

* Not enough exposed form in comparison. Clark played in the right position should go pretty well. L.Edwards I don't like as much as most. While he has footy nous, he doesn't look have the pure class of Pendles or Mundy but is just a slow. Then again, not many do.

Man our list is in a bad way looking at is this way.

Langdon, Clark and LEdwards have contracts for next year

The rest could are in all likelihood in the delist pile for this year with the possible exception of West

 

[Chump Change]

Keen for this point to be argued for 5 pages again.

(not really)

People are already arguing, ie. let's spend top2 pick on KPD which is a stupid idea. If they can have their say, so can I. As long as there's no straw arguments, everything is good.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

People are already arguing, ie. let's spend top2 pick on KPD which is a stupid idea. If they can have their say, so can I. As long as there's no straw arguments, everything is good.

I also agree with your point.

Gov - rookie
Barrass - pick 43
Bazzo - pick 37
Edwards - rookie

 

[ArdentEagle]

Langdon, Clark and LEdwards have contracts for next year

The rest could are in all likelihood in the delist pile for this year with the possible exception of West

It was more just a look at our current list and quality. Bit of an indictment.
FWIW - I'd payout Langdon to free up a spot (he wouldn't be on much) and probably Rookie West.

 

[WCE_phil]

It was more just a look at our current list and quality. Bit of an indictment.
FWIW - I'd payout Langdon to free up a spot (he wouldn't be on much) and probably Rookie West.

To me west has no future in a successful AFL side. He may be able to provide a chopout stopgap with his aggression over the next 2 years but i'd much rather move him on.

 

[Keys]

To me west has no future in a successful AFL side. He may be able to provide a chopout stopgap with his aggression over the next 2 years but i'd much rather move him on.

Any time I go through what cuts we might make I end up with one spot being available for either West, Trew or Winder

My preference would be Winder but I suspect it’ll be West due to his higher work ethic and training standards, which I think are what the club aren’t happy with Winder about. (Purely a guess)

 

[ArdentEagle]

To me west has no future in a successful AFL side. He may be able to provide a chopout stopgap with his aggression over the next 2 years but i'd much rather move him on.

I'm right on the edge with him. At worst, he'd be a good bloke to lead by example at the Beagles. At best, he actually improves and becomes a pretty solid player.

 

[ziad]

I also agree with your point.

Gov - rookie
Barrass - pick 43
Bazzo - pick 37
Edwards - rookie

Cox - rookie
Priddis- rookie (wow)

I think your point is valid.

 

[ziad]

I'm right on the edge with him. At worst, he'd be a good bloke to lead by example at the Beagles. At best, he actually improves and becomes a pretty solid player.

What I have noticed about west of late is that his disposal is significantly better as he adapts to the pace of the game and he actually has decent break away pace.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Any time I go through what cuts we might make I end up with one spot being available for either West, Trew or Winder

My preference would be Winder but I suspect it’ll be West due to his higher work ethic and training standards, which I think are what the club aren’t happy with Winder about. (Purely a guess)

Agree with this (prefer Winder, but it'll be West due to standards).

It's no biggie really, it'll only be for one more year, two at the absolute most as the mids we BETTER ****ING draft develop.

 

[ArdentEagle]

What I have noticed about west of late is that his disposal is significantly better as he adapts to the pace of the game and he actually has decent break away pace.

I hadn't noticed the disposal improvement myself mate but I'll be sure to follow it closer from now on.

 

[Mattman93]

If we can add Phillipou or Hewett and then grab say Mackenzie as well as either Hustwaite/Ginbey (seems like the club is all over him) on top of Deven Robertson we have really ticked off that part of the rebuild in 1 draft.

1) Isn't Mackenzie tipped to go quite early now, ie inside top 10?

2) is the Ginbey comment just rumours or some inside knowledge? I'd love to get him.

 

[The wily weagle]

West tries. I will give him that, he really does try

Its his lack skills that let him down. And if he doesn't have them at this point, he never will

But i respect him for at least having a crack

 

[Keys]

It was more just a look at our current list and quality. Bit of an indictment.
FWIW - I'd payout Langdon to free up a spot (he wouldn't be on much) and probably Rookie West.

Have a look at where those players were taken and it gives you some idea of why they’re at the bottom of our list

Foley the highest at pick 31 is also the most likely to be at least serviceable
Witherden was a pick 23 but we only used a couple of 3rd picks for him
The rest are pick 50+ in the draft including a number of rookie list and SSP signings

All clubs churn through those type of players hoping that every now and then they pick up something decent

And we’ve done fairly well with Nelson - 100 game player with a 50 something pick

 

[Keys]

1) Isn't Mackenzie tipped to go quite early now, ie inside top 10?

2) is the Ginbey comment just rumours or some inside knowledge? I'd love to get him.

Filthy phil did say we’d have to get another top 10 pick somehow to be able to draft Mackenzie

 

[Monocle]

Any time I go through what cuts we might make I end up with one spot being available for either West, Trew or Winder

My preference would be Winder but I suspect it’ll be West due to his higher work ethic and training standards, which I think are what the club aren’t happy with Winder about. (Purely a guess)

Keys I have done the same exercise, several times and here is my thinking.

Of those three: West, Trew and Winder.

I would put a line through West first.
We have seen, quality wise, what he can bring to the game and it’s just borderline, being acceptable. He has no margin for improvement, I love his effort and application, his ability not so much.

The next two are a pair of teasers, they occasional flash some good stuff in the Beagles, but I think it fair to say that both have been terrible inconsistent.
Both have room for improvement however, IMO, Winder is the more consistent of the two and he has more tricks and upside to project as a regular AFL player.

It’s good to see that he is finally being given some midfield time, because, that’s ultimately where I see him progressing to play at the next level, with the capacity to have stints as a HFF or forward packet.
Goal kicking mids are a valuable commodity on any list.

In a perfect world it would be ideal if we had a strong list and we were able to give the pair another year to see if they can make the next step.
However as we have seen this year, we don’t have a strong list and we simply can’t afford the luxury or affording them both another year.

So it would be Winder that I would hope we retain over the other two.

But I can also see a case for moving all three on and starting again.

Reality check for aspiring draftees:

AFL list spots are hard to get and should be coveted by those who are recipients , so these young kids, all need to take their chances as, the attrition rate is high, so for those who get them, they need to hit the ground running, both metaphorically and literally.

 

[WCE_phil]

1) Isn't Mackenzie tipped to go quite early now, ie inside top 10?

2) is the Ginbey comment just rumours or some inside knowledge? I'd love to get him.

1. I don't have any info on the Ginbey rumours but it has been spread in multiple places.

2. I have Mackenzie sliding with the rise of others and think he goes outside the top 10 unless he has a magical performance in the metro vs country game. It's like this every year. Guys like hotton etc come into top 10 consideration and picks on the back of a few good games at the right time of year. Also Mackenzie whilst I really love him as a player doesn't really have a true standout quality. Draft teams a lot of the time will back 1 outstanding quality over a much more deserving pick with a lot more runs on the board purely due to perceived higher ceilings. Now if Mackenzie is the 5th player picked from Vic Country then he's 13-15 material come draft night (even if he's second on my board of Vic Country players)

 

[Chump Change]

1. I don't have any info on the Ginbey rumours but it has been spread in multiple places.

2. I have Mackenzie sliding with the rise of others and think he goes outside the top 10 unless he has a magical performance in the metro vs country game. It's like this every year. Guys like hotton etc come into top 10 consideration and picks on the back of a few good games at the right time of year. Also Mackenzie whilst I really love him as a player doesn't really have a true standout quality. Draft teams a lot of the time will back 1 outstanding quality over a much more deserving pick with a lot more runs on the board purely due to perceived higher ceilings. Now if Mackenzie is the 5th player picked from Vic Country then he's 13-15 material come draft night (even if he's second on my board of Vic Country players)

1. From memory you rate Ginbey. I like him too but he either may go before our 2nd pick, or there may be a better option. Someone recently mentioned his kicking is shifty. What's your take on this?

2. I think there is a clear gap between the top guys (Warlord, Sheezel, Ashcroft, even Hewett) and McKenzie. I also have him 10 - 15 range.

 

[WCErevival]

Keys I have done the same exercise, several times and here is my thinking.

Of those three: West, Trew and Winder.

I would put a line through West first.
We have seen, quality wise, what he can bring to the game and it’s just borderline, being acceptable. He has no margin for improvement, I love his effort and application, his ability not so much.

The next two are a pair of teasers, they occasional flash some good stuff in the Beagles, but I think it fair to say that both have been terrible inconsistent.
Both have room for improvement however, IMO, Winder is the more consist of the two and he has more tricks and upside to project as a regular AFL player.

It’s good to see that he is finally being given some midfield time, because, that’s ultimately where I see him progressing to play at the next level, with the capacity to have stints as a HFF or forward packet.
Goal kicking mids are a valuable commodity on any list.

In a perfect world it would be ideal if we had a strong list and we were able to give the pair another year to see if they can make the next step.
However as we have seen this year, we don’t have a strong list and we simply can’t afford the luxury or affording them both another year.

So it would be Winder that I would hope we retain over the other two.

But I can also see a case for moving all three on and starting again.

Reality check for aspiring draftees:

AFL list spots are hard to get and should be coveted by those who are recipients , so these young kids, all need to take their chances as, the attrition rate is high, so for those who get them, they need to hit the ground running, both metaphorically and literally.

Winder is the only one of those three on the main list isnt he? Probably doesnt help his cause.

 

[Keys]

Keys I have done the same exercise, several times and here is my thinking.

Of those three: West, Trew and Winder.

I would put a line through West first.
We have seen, quality wise, what he can bring to the game and it’s just borderline, being acceptable. He has no margin for improvement, I love his effort and application, his ability not so much.

The next two are a pair of teasers, they occasional flash some good stuff in the Beagles, but I think it fair to say that both have been terrible inconsistent.
Both have room for improvement however, IMO, Winder is the more consist of the two and he has more tricks and upside to project as a regular AFL player.

It’s good to see that he is finally being given some midfield time, because, that’s ultimately where I see him progressing to play at the next level, with the capacity to have stints as a HFF or forward packet.
Goal kicking mids are a valuable commodity on any list.

In a perfect world it would be ideal if we had a strong list and we were able to give the pair another year to see if they can make the next step.
However as we have seen this year, we don’t have a strong list and we simply can’t afford the luxury or affording them both another year.

So it would be Winder that I would hope we retain over the other two.

But I can also see a case for moving all three on and starting again.

Reality check for aspiring draftees:

AFL list spots are hard to get and should be coveted by those who are recipients , so these young kids, all need to take their chances as, the attrition rate is high, so for those who get them, they need to hit the ground running, both metaphorically and literally.

I can see those three players not given a contract prior to the draft with an indication to one, maybe 2 if we have a listed player traded out, that we’ll take them in the rookie draft pending how things play out

I suspect we’ll have 33 listed players and 2 rookies going into the draft, leaving 7 list spots to be filled

There’s currently 28 listed players contracted, with deals expected for Naitanui, Hurn, Redden, Rioli and probably Williams to round out the 33

Culley and Langdon (swapsies with Jones who gets an upgrade with a new deal) take up 2 rookie spots

Gives us 4 picks (2,20,26,38) to bring players (draft or trade) in plus a reserve spot to use if say someone like Darcy Jones, for example, is sitting there late in the draft. Then a rookie spot for a project ruck and the last musical chair for a redrafting (West or Winder) or a better alternative from what’s still on the draft board

Anyone asking for a trade out opens up another list spot obviously

 

[mattyc75]

TBH I think the whole premierships are built on defence still actually rings true but not in the way that most people think. From a coaching perspective and also how the umpires put the whistle away in major finals when you talk about defence winning premierships you aren't just talking about the back 6 on the field. You are talking 2 way running, hardness in the contest, at the man and the ability to win clearances as well.

I don't see a host of superstar inside mids in this draft however there are a lot of them and if can get 4 good bites at the cherry (including a potential trade) then I think if you account for one bust whether that be due to the player or injuries you need to allow for that. That would leave 3 and really you are hoping for 2 B+ players and one that takes his game to the next level. We have a fair amount of outside class on the list and will continue to do so, particularly with improvements in fitness.

Getting players who can at least break even in the stoppages allowing us to push and keep Kelly and Sheed on the wings will go a huge way to making those improvements. I already see one of those B+ players on our list and think he will be critically important on the inside in Culley. A lot of the time great young inside mids produce really good tackling numbers because they are second to the ball but still know where it's going. That's how I see Culley and he is going to be a physical beast. At 19 he is already able to stand up to a lot of inside work, has very, very good hands and with a little composure his kicking will be average at worst.

If you consider Sheed and Kelly can be around for our next challenge at the top in those outside roles (we also know they can take inside time and win clearances especially around the ground. Sheed is one of the best in the league at around the ground clearances) with the potential of Hough and Chesser to take those roles in their prime as Kelly and Sheed fall away we really are just short of inside and balanced mids as well as a ruck who can break even.

If we can add Phillipou or Hewett and then grab say Mackenzie as well as either Hustwaite/Ginbey (seems like the club is all over him) on top of Deven Robertson we have really ticked off that part of the rebuild in 1 draft.

Robertson is 185, Culley is 193, Hustwaite is 194, Mackenzie is 188, Hewett is 186, Phillipou is 192cm, Ginbey is 189cm. That's a big, strong midfield with Hewett having the ability to burst from stoppages and Phillipou seemingly having the pendles/sidebottom ability to make time slow down to make the right decision and execute as well as the great ability to go forward. Hustwaite has the elite ability to get the ball out to the right man and one of his strengths is kicking under pressure in close. I know if reporting is true the club is all over Ginbey but I consider him the weakest of the lot. Robertson is inside, outside and provides great leadership.

We are likely getting one of Hewett or Phillipou and one of Hustwaite or Ginbey as well as Robertson. We just need the extra pick for Mackenzie. Sure it's going to take 3-4 years of development but to me we already have most of the cream as well as the spine, we just need the midfield cake, a competitive ruck, 1 very solid HFF/Mid prospect who can impact around the ground and 1 true Key forward. The key forward may need to come from trade but there's the potential for guys to go later in this draft who can make the role their own particularly if Allen does become the star we hope.

If we don't target Barnett or Keeler there is a strong chance due to his year that Broadbent could even make the rookie draft and Max Knobel is certainly a rookie pick. If they were there I'd take both.

3-4 years from now that is the sort of midfield that is not going to get bullied on size, strength or positioning and outside of maybe Hewett they are all genuine hard bastards as well.

From your previous posts you have some inside knowledge of lemmey
If he or scully fall to say the 3rd round would you pick either?
They both seem to have fallen off a cliff


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[juddy_Like]

Duff has been pretty consistent in his mail on us being heavily into Ginbey (and Cadman fwiw).

Now I don’t know how reliable he is since I don’t live in town anymore but he was very accurate back in the day and still appears to be (unlike Haggers).

 

[Chad in Vegas]

I can see those three players not given a contract prior to the draft with an indication to one, maybe 2 if we have a listed player traded out, that we’ll take them in the rookie draft pending how things play out

I hope a significant number of the players we cut this year stay on at the Beagles and we leave the door open for a mid-season draftee. I know there have been some good reasons for it (like not having certainty the side will even exist) but the lack of ex-West Coast players in our WAFL reflects poorly on the broader culture of the club. Having 3 or 4 recent AFL listed players in the side will also make them a lot more likely to be competitive.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

I hope a significant number of the players we cut this year stay on at the Beagles and we leave the door open for a mid-season draftee. I know there have been some good reasons for it (like not having certainty the side will even exist) but the lack of ex-West Coast players in our WAFL reflects poorly on the broader culture of the club. Having 3 or 4 recent AFL listed players in the side will also make them a lot more likely to be competitive.

Trouble is that players aren't listed Eagles players that play with the Beagles know that the will be second class citizens. For example, they won't play in the best positions if there is a crapper Eagles listed payer available that West Coast want to develop. Why would you stay?