Do we need to recruit some tough guys in the next draft ?

[Jezza U Beauty]

Genuine premiership-threat sides have to have some mongrel and ability to physically own the ground.


Carlton 95 - Fraser Brown, Peter Dean, Sticks, Earl Spalding, Dean Rice.

Hawthorn 08 - Hodge, Lewis, Brown, Roughead.

Geelong 07 - Mooney, Chapman, Rooke, Scarlett.

Port 04 - Pickett, Tredrea, Carr.

Brisbane 01-03 - Voss, Lynch, Leppitsch, Scotts, Johnson, Bradshaw.


I could go on.

At the moment we have Fev who is a genuine hard unit, and then it's probably Bannister but he's far from a regular player. Juddy's bull-strong but not really one to get too involved in intimidating and throwing his weight around if scuffles break out.

I think we need some genuine enforcers, coz you can have as much talent as you like (and we certainly have), but Gibbs and Grigg and Murph and Scotty and Houla and Walks aren't going to intimidate the hell out of the opposition.

Whorethorn had hardness as one of their drafting criteria for the last few years and now they've got a field-full of seriously hard units.

 

[Weiterbot23]

Fair comment

.......Daniel Rich..........

 

[Salaryman]

....congratulations you've progressed from being boring to real ****ing boring

Aside from putting his head over the ball when it's his turn I wouldn't particularly call Rich a hard nut. Robbo is harder....so is Army and Browne.

Rich would get slaughtered in a boxing ring with his 12 inch arms

 

[Cynic]

Doesn't matter who the player is, toughness or 'mongrel' can be instilled in most players...

 

[Jezza U Beauty]

Doesn't matter who the player is, toughness or 'mongrel' can be instilled in most players...

I disagree. Strongly. I don't think you'll ever see, for example, Jordan Russell or Eddie Betts or Brad Fisher drop a bloke with a hard shirt-front.

I used to love seeing Browny and Hammill and Dean relishing opportunities to smash oppo players.

In the NAB game against the Hawks a couple of weeks ago I was thinking "bloody hawk bullies bashing our kids up", and then it occurred to me that we're still a way off being a genuine flag threat.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Well Setanta was our tough nut, pity he kicked the wrong teams nuts.

 

[Juddys_navy_blues]

Well Setanta was our tough nut, pity he kicked the wrong teams nuts.

LOL, And always has taken his agression out mon the wrong players.

 

[HBF]

....congratulations you've progressed from being boring to real ****ing boring

Aside from putting his head over the ball when it's his turn I wouldn't particularly call Rich a hard nut. Robbo is harder....so is Army and Browne.

Rich would get slaughtered in a boxing ring with his 12 inch arms

You can add Simon Wiggins and AJ to that list.

 

[Salaryman]

I think my point was we have recruited some blokes who are hard at it, will do the 1%ers off the ball, willing to put their body on the line, etc...what we didn't have is a classy, instinctual forward with a good nose for goal.....if teams are going to double/triple team Fev we need to hurt them when the ball hits the ground....Rich wasn't the fit.

 

[jj1978]

Not that these guys are psycho tough guys, but they'll stick up for their team-mates:

Hadley,
Scotland,
Cloke,
Wiggins,
Fev,
Thornton,
Setanta

With future tough guys (still too young bodied) in:
Armfield,
Browne,
Robinson (could be psycho tough),
Hampson,
Grigg
and I'm thinking Yarran as well.

Out of the list above, Fev, Scotland would be the pick to be by your side in a big fight... but Cloke numerous times has stuck up for his mates (remember Kreuzer being knocked down in last years NAB cup).

 

[Blue since 72]

Bear in mind the game has changed a fair bit. The shirt front is virtually outlawed, the bump appears to be on the way out and I think the 'hardness' required these days revolves around endurance and pace. Give me those two, skill by foot and strength through the hips to give you a good base for tackling which is taking on alot more significance these days and I'd be happy with that type of player at the club. Guys like Robbo who get flattened and get straight back up are the hard guys I like to see. Sets a good example to the rest.

 

[lily of laguna]

Genuine premiership-threat sides have to have some mongrel and ability to physically own the ground.


Carlton 95 - Fraser Brown, Peter Dean, Sticks, Earl Spalding, Dean Rice.

Hawthorn 08 - Hodge, Lewis, Brown, Roughead.

Geelong 07 - Mooney, Chapman, Rooke, Scarlett.

Port 04 - Pickett, Tredrea, Carr.

Brisbane 01-03 - Voss, Lynch, Leppitsch, Scotts, Johnson, Bradshaw.


I could go on.

At the moment we have Fev who is a genuine hard unit, and then it's probably Bannister but he's far from a regular player. Juddy's bull-strong but not really one to get too involved in intimidating and throwing his weight around if scuffles break out.

I think we need some genuine enforcers, coz you can have as much talent as you like (and we certainly have), but Gibbs and Grigg and Murph and Scotty and Houla and Walks aren't going to intimidate the hell out of the opposition.

Whorethorn had hardness as one of their drafting criteria for the last few years and now they've got a field-full of seriously hard units.

I thought our hardness at the ball vs Geelong was excellent for a very young team. We pretty much matched them even though they are much older/stronger bodies across the field.

What you have to remember is that most of the enforcers in opposition teams are at least 23yo and over and have a number of seasons under their belts.

We have very few who fill that gap but we are getting closer having a lot of hardnuts.

 

[Silvagnis]

Not that these guys are psycho tough guys, but they'll stick up for their team-mates:

Hadley,
Scotland,
Cloke,
Wiggins,
Fev,
Thornton,
Setanta

With future tough guys (still too young bodied) in:
Armfield,
Browne,
Robinson (could be psycho tough),
Hampson,
Grigg
and I'm thinking Yarran as well.

Out of the list above, Fev, Scotland would be the pick to be by your side in a big fight... but Cloke numerous times has stuck up for his mates (remember Kreuzer being knocked down in last years NAB cup).

Andrew Walker relishes going in hard and getting stuck into opponents.

Didak backed off when Walker was throwing Thomas around like a ragdoll and Walker turned towards him.

 

[Weiterbot23]

Not that these guys are psycho tough guys, but they'll stick up for their team-mates:

Hadley,
Scotland,
Cloke,
Wiggins,
Fev,
Thornton,
Setanta

With future tough guys (still too young bodied) in:
Armfield,
Browne,
Robinson (could be psycho tough),
Hampson,
Grigg
and I'm thinking Yarran as well.

Out of the list above, Fev, Scotland would be the pick to be by your side in a big fight... but Cloke numerous times has stuck up for his mates (remember Kreuzer being knocked down in last years NAB cup).

In the paper the next day or on the field??

I agree with the thread, Although we aren't a soft side (even if you think we are, as the players age this will change) we don't really have a cheif enforcer. Fev flys the flag but he is in the goal square out of the action a bit. Wiggo doesn't mind dropping blokes for fun, but he wouldn't have you shaking in your boots. I think a hamill type player is just what we need.

 

[lily of laguna]

In the paper the next day or on the field??

I agree the thread, Although we aren't a soft side (even if you think we are, as the players age this will change) we don't really have a cheif enforcer. Fev flys the flag but he is in the goal square out of the action a bit. Wiggo doesn't mind dropping blokes for fun, but he wouldn't have you shaking in your boots. I think a hamill type player is just what we need.

You must have missed the game against Geelong, K.

Thornton was involved in at least half a dozen 'flying the flag' moments when Geelong were trying to throw AJ off his game!!!

Thornton definitely likes a scrap, I was very glad to see him not tkae a backward step the other night

 

[Weiterbot23]

You must have missed the game against Geelong, K.

Thornton was involved in at least half a dozen 'flying the flag' moments when Geelong were trying to throw AJ off his game!!!

Thornton definitely likes a scrap, I was very glad to see him not tkae a backward step the other night

True I did miss the game....wedding....i know thats no excuse but what can i say

 

[Jezza U Beauty]

You must have missed the game against Geelong, K.

Thornton was involved in at least half a dozen 'flying the flag' moments when Geelong were trying to throw AJ off his game!!!

Thornton definitely likes a scrap, I was very glad to see him not tkae a backward step the other night

I love our blokes, and I'm not saying we're a bunch of pussies.

As big-hearted as T-Bird is, he ain't no Mal Michael/Justin Leppitsch/Anthony Rocca/Dean Wallis/Max Rooke in the intimidation stakes.

I want us to recruit some guys that will strike fear into the oppo.

 

[LennyLeonard]

....congratulations you've progressed from being boring to real ****ing boring

Aside from putting his head over the ball when it's his turn I wouldn't particularly call Rich a hard nut. Robbo is harder....so is Army and Browne.

Rich would get slaughtered in a boxing ring with his 12 inch arms

Good point Gilly.

I have watched both Lions games this year and there is definately someting odd looking about the boy. His arms look a good 6 inches shorter than they should be.

 

[Ryan Dixon Webb]

Blokes like Hadley, Grigg, Browne, Robinson and Armfield will be our tough nuts this year. I think we have a few.

 

[gbatman]

Carlton '09 premership side hard players - Joseph, Kreuzer, Robinson, Thornton, Judd, Wiggins, Fevola, Browne, Hadley, Simpson. Fairly tough - Grigg, O'hAilpin, Scotland, Russell, Walker.

We are nearly the youngest side in the competition, of course we arent very "tough" and physical. Just waite for this to happen.

So when you say tough you are talking about players who go 100% at the ball, put their heads over it, lay good shepherds, stand under high balls, take marks going backwards, get in contested situations and lay bumps to nock opponents off the ball, spoil solidly by making solid body contact when they punch the ball, lay strong tackles, crash packs in marking contest while still going for the footy. This is tough

Or are you talking about players who get into wresteling/scragging situations, lay pointless bumps, crashing players in marking conteses while not going for the ball, wack blokes high and do things like this to get reported/give away free kicks. This is not tough.

 

[Ryan Dixon Webb]

I forgot about Waite.

 

[jj1978]

In the paper the next day or on the field??

I agree with the thread, Although we aren't a soft side (even if you think we are, as the players age this will change) we don't really have a cheif enforcer. Fev flys the flag but he is in the goal square out of the action a bit. Wiggo doesn't mind dropping blokes for fun, but he wouldn't have you shaking in your boots. I think a hamill type player is just what we need.

Thornton is FULL-ON agro... in games (just look against Geelong) he gets that look in his face like Bruce Banner does before he becomes the incredible Hulk. The Psycho eyes... and he starts breathing hard... he's just able to control himself from metamorphisising into the devil that is within. One day someone will push Thornton too far and he'll kill someone.

 

[Kramer1]

OP totally lost me when he nominated Jordan Lewis as a 'tough guy'.

112% of his posessions are uncontested. Making angry faces doesn't make you a tough guy.

 

[fnm_just a man]

I forgot about Waite.

He is not a tough player....mind you he has improved in this area the last couple of years. He used to very obviously lack courage, but i didn't see it much last year which was pleasing.

 

[TheKITC]

Doesn't matter who the player is, toughness or 'mongrel' can be instilled in most players...

I could not disagree with this more. I'm sorry but this is just the opposite of the truth.

Toughness or hardness at the ball and the contest is something a player has or does not have...It is obvious when a player has it and when one doesn't. I believe it is actually the one side of someones game that cannot be adjusted ie. skills can be honed, fitness can be worked on etc. but it think that it is one thing that is instrinsic to a player and can be trained minimally if at all to be done better.

I'm not trying to put you or your opinion down but it seems like a view of someone who probably hasn't been that involved in football apart from viewing afl.... again not trying to be personal.