Strategy Does Geelong play 'dumb' football?

[you pick one]

So we should discourage any moves in case they don't work?
Half this board sooks because from what they see the MC don't make ENOUGH moves (even though most are structural and not noticed), yet when they do they are smashed for it.
HMac was dead on his feet half way through the second quarter and if left without help (other than Blcavs) would have basically ensured we won zero clearances for the second half.

Elimination finals is not the time to be finding out this sort of stuff,you have a whole home and away season for that.

 

[Xcat]

Mackie kicking out from full back straight up the middle. The other top teams never do this as it never works and almost always results in a goal to our opposition.

 

[Catatonic Shock]

Elimination finals is not the time to be finding out this sort of stuff,you have a whole home and away season for that.

They did put Harry forward a few times (which is a stupid tactic btw) and hmac was in good form until the last 6-8 weeks or so.
And walker was the only of brown walker and Kersten who could ruck.

 

[Partridge]

They did put Harry forward a few times (which is a stupid tactic btw) and hmac was in good form until the last 6-8 weeks or so.
And walker was the only of brown walker and Kersten who could ruck.

It's the legacy of a bigger issue - only two genuine ruckmen on the entire list. If injuries were to occur to Vardy and then the two main ruckmen we were going to be in deep trouble.

 

[Willo_]

I actually think we do have a few options and things up our sleeve, we have a couple of big blokes and then almost everyone is capable of playing back/forward or middle...

I think the theory that when we play our best we can beat anyone is spot on... but we aren't able to sustain our best due to older players not being able to play 120 mind of high level footy week in week out and younger players still working up to it..


At this point I don't think there is any real magical answer .. we just simply aren't good enough

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Once Vardy was injured, they should have kept either Brown or Walker there every week (when they were available of course). Unsurprisingly they didn't do this, and the exact situation we spoke about in March - where our 2nd most experienced forward is Vardy on 21 games - has come to pass.

This is the worst for mine, still on 21 games and the club is probably still going to "back him in". Despite the fact he has never put a season together and still remains an unknown if he's actually anygood.

Watching Crows play all of Walker, Lynch and Pods makes me wonder why we couldn't have done the same. Pods/Vardy/ Hawkins. Then when Vardy went down we would still have Pods and could have a 3rd tall in Brown/Walker/Kersten and give them time to develop. Pods still played some decent footy this year too.

Now we have to play the same game again with Vardy next year. Unless we get Frawley and throw him up there (assuming no retirements from now) but that is not really a good long term solution.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

This is a great summary of our game plan and our issues towards the end of the year. The problem is that with our bellow average ruck division there isn't much else we can do, we can't use a forward press since every stoppage puts us at a disadvantage. This is compounded by us having only one reliable Key forward, which it limits the effectiveness of a long kicking game, that we futilely tried in the finals series.

We looked good Early in the year when Both Simpson and McInotsh were playing well which allowed us to actually use the forward press and have players like McCarthy, Burbury and Murdoch provide heaps of forward pressure. We couldn't even keep up that strategy due to the large loss of personnel.

After the loss against Sydney until we played against Hawthorn for the second time, our team played a very different game style than what I have seen us play in the last few years. Admittedly we had a run of games against lower ranked teams. Initially I was really frustrated with how we were playing and It took me a while to work what we were actually trying to do. When we won the ball if we couldn't take a quick rebound through the centre our players slowed the play down until we most of our players had moved forward, we would switch the ball repeatedly until, an option opened up. We left 3 players behind the ball, which had two effects, if a player was under pressure there was always a player a kick's length behind them that they could pass to and then cause a quick switch, the second benefit was that it helped prevent the opponent from getting setting a up a quick counter attack since our defenders had a fifty metre head start when running back to defensive fifty.

I was a little disappointed when we stopped playing that way after the Hawthorn game, even though it has it many flaws, I felt we were trying to play a game plan that we simply didn't have the people to execute it with. We had lost too many of our "play makers" through injury that would allow us to effectively counter attack. The best thing we could have done was slowed the game down and held on the ball for as long as possible instead of trying to match the speed of our opponents.

Don't know if it's a personal issue, but why we don't play our play on at all costs and run like we used too? (see Port)

I know Hinkley is supposed to be the one that did his magic with it, but surely we can implement it and it would be a better result than the crap we are doing now?

I mean the entire comp apparently "copied" the press from the Pies. so why can't we do this?

There is always a carry on about "we won 3 flags so the club must know what they're doing" But the issue for me is, we aren't repeating the formula that bought us success in the first place.

 

[Lana]

Don't know if it's a personal issue, but why we don't play our play on at all costs and run like we used too? (see Port)

I know Hinkley is supposed to be the one that did his magic with it, but surely we can implement it and it would be a better result than the crap we are doing now?

I mean the entire comp apparently "copied" the press from the Pies. so why can't we do this?

There is always a carry on about "we won 3 flags so the club must know what they're doing" But the issue for me is, we aren't repeating the formula that bought us success in the first place.

Every thing comes back to the people you have on the ground, no strategy will work unless it is tailored to the players you have on the ground.

The reason we don't play on at all costs is because the we don't have many options down the ground to kick to because we play both our flankers as extra midfielders, this is compounded by our lack of reliable CHF, I know that I am not describing it well but essentially our forward structure prevents us from taking advantage of fast breaks. The reason we rely on rebounding off half back(using a slow build up, even when our player could've run the lines or done a fast break they generally slowed it down anyway) is because we are so noncompetitive in the middle due to our ruck gap(it makes it hard for us to attack in the middle and makes it easier for them to attack from the middle and allows the opposition to front run, hence why the opposition gets can at times kick a lot of consecutive goals against us with no reply.)

I want us to go in the other direction, I think that our on ball brigade is going to particularly strong, we have a lot of young players who are good at breaking away from a congestion, despite our large deficiency in our ruck division. I want us playing like we did in late 2011 more like Port does now. All we need is injury free seasons from our small forwards, one of our younger CHF to become a 14 touch 5 marks per game player and a ruckman who will break-even in the middle. The plus side is that this style of play will protect our very old defense.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Every thing comes back to the people you have on the ground, no strategy will work unless it is tailored to the players you have on the ground.

The reason we don't play on at all costs is because the we don't have many options down the ground to kick to because we play both our flankers as extra midfielders, this is compounded by our lack of reliable CHF, I know that I am not describing it well but essentially our forward structure prevents us from taking advantage of fast breaks. The reason we rely on rebounding off half back is because we are so noncompetitive in the middle due to our ruck gap(it makes it hard for us to attack in the middle and makes it easier for them to attack from the middle and allows the opposition to front run, hence why the opposition gets can at times kick a lot of consecutive goals against us with no reply.)

I want us to go in the other direction, I think that our on ball brigade is going to particularly strong, we have a lot of young players who are good at breaking away from a congestion, despite our large deficiency in our ruck division. I want us playing like we did in late 2011 more like Port does now. All we need is injury free seasons from our small forwards, one of our younger CHF to become a 14 touch 5 marks per game player and a ruckman who will break-even in the middle. The plus side is that this style of play will protect our very old defense.

We've been playing this way since 2012 I believe, we certainly did last year even with Pods in the side.

I said in another thread, I think our lack of midfield rotations really hurt us and we seem to lack quality depth through there. Take Selwood out and with the way we play, I think we have a near bottom 4 midfield. So for mine, I really would like them to make this a focus of drafting/FA/Trading for us.

I would rather us get a decent plodder of a ruck and CHF, and work on getting a gun midfield again.

 

[Catatonic Shock]

It's the legacy of a bigger issue - only two genuine ruckmen on the entire list. If injuries were to occur to Vardy and then the two main ruckmen we were going to be in deep trouble.

Yep.

 

[Lana]

We've been playing this way since 2012 I believe, we certainly did last year even with Pods in the side.

I said in another thread, I think our lack of midfield rotations really hurt us and we seem to lack quality depth through there. Take Selwood out and with the way we play, I think we have a near bottom 4 midfield. So for mine, I really would like them to make this a focus of drafting/FA/Trading for us.

I would rather us get a decent plodder of a ruck and CHF, and work on getting a gun midfield again.

Our game plan has changes so many times since 2012, Ignoring the second game against hawthorn, we used three distinct game plans this year alone. Don't forget that last year Podsiadly was playing extremely high up the ground to compensate for Hawkins' lack of mobility.

I am going to have to disagree on this point, you'd find that with a decent ruckman our midfield would be looking a lot better. Most of our midfield rotation is less than 23 year old. Our midfield is going to get stronger in the next few years.

 

[magicmarker]

Mackie kicking out from full back straight up the middle. The other top teams never do this as it never works and almost always results in a goal to our opposition.

Great point - one thing that really disappointed me this year was that kick outs were invariably a bomb either to the flanks or down the middle, normally resulting in a contest where we'd break even at best. At worst, the kick would be rebounded to a loose forward inside 50.
I think we missed Josh Hunt more than I ever thought we would, and we need to improve greatly in this area next year.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Our game plan has changes so many times since 2012, Ignoring the second game against hawthorn, we used three distinct game plans this year alone. Don't forget that last year Podsiadly was playing extremely high up the ground to compensate for Hawkins' lack of mobility.

I am going to have to disagree on this point, you'd find that with a decent ruckman our midfield would be looking a lot better. Most of our midfield rotation is less than 23 year old. Our midfield is going to get stronger in the next few years.

Hmm, haven't really noticed many changes, maybe for a half or so, but still have turned it over at half back plan seems to be our plan A.

By bottom 4 I'm talking at this moment, not future. Hmac and Simpson where decent at the start of the year, we have been run over at times by most mid-fields at somepoint (except a few). In our 110 point loss to Swans, we actually killed it in the ruck but our midfield got smacked.

Age is a factor, but GWS/GC and Port are young and still did a number on us.

I dunno, maybe I'm being too unrealistic...

 

[Willo_]

This is the worst for mine, still on 21 games and the club is probably still going to "back him in". Despite the fact he has never put a season together and still remains an unknown if he's actually anygood.

Watching Crows play all of Walker, Lynch and Pods makes me wonder why we couldn't have done the same. Pods/Vardy/ Hawkins. Then when Vardy went down we would still have Pods and could have a 3rd tall in Brown/Walker/Kersten and give them time to develop. Pods still played some decent footy this year too.

Now we have to play the same game again with Vardy next year. Unless we get Frawley and throw him up there (assuming no retirements from now) but that is not really a good long term solution.

I wondered why we couldn't play Hawk, Brown and Walker together... we did the last round and it worked well (against poor opposition mind you).
As I mentioned elsewhere I see Brown as a perfect 3rd tall option

 

[Lana]

Hmm, haven't really noticed many changes, maybe for a half or so, but still have turned it over at half back plan seems to be our plan A.

By bottom 4 I'm talking at this moment, not future. Hmac and Simpson where decent at the start of the year, we have been run over at times by most mid-fields at somepoint (except a few). In our 110 point loss to Swans, we actually killed it in the ruck but our midfield got smacked.

Age is a factor, but GWS/GC and Port are young and still did a number on us.

I dunno, maybe I'm being too unrealistic...

Especially towards the end of the year, we were younger than our opponent only six times during the year,of which five times were in our last six games. But it's not that average its the spread, our age distribution looks like a canyon in the middle.

At this time of year everyone wants answers, the pessimist come out of the woodwork crying out that the end of times is upon us, the optimists back the decision makers of the clubs to do the right thing. Who's to say what hopes, aspirations and desires are realist, that what being a supporter is all about, if there was certainty no one would care.

 

[sauron256]

Has moving Taylor up forward ever truly turned a game in our favour? The only times I ever remember him having an impact forward are in games where we're already well ahead.

The one thing that felt missing this year was the ability to lock the ball in our forward half. We had some amazing forward pressure happening last year (see the game against Freo, round 13 I think), not so much this year.

 

[sauron256]

Don't know if it's a personal issue, but why we don't play our play on at all costs and run like we used too? (see Port)

I know Hinkley is supposed to be the one that did his magic with it, but surely we can implement it and it would be a better result than the crap we are doing now?

I mean the entire comp apparently "copied" the press from the Pies. so why can't we do this?

There is always a carry on about "we won 3 flags so the club must know what they're doing" But the issue for me is, we aren't repeating the formula that bought us success in the first place.

See the round 22 game against the Hawks. It worked great in the first half, but we got torn to shreds in the second half.

 

[Catatonic Shock]

Has moving Taylor up forward ever truly turned a game in our favour? The only times I ever remember him having an impact forward are in games where we're already well ahead.

The one thing that felt missing this year was the ability to lock the ball in our forward half. We had some amazing forward pressure happening last year (see the game against Freo, round 13 I think), not so much this year.

We had no genuine small forwards this year imo.
Someone like McCarthy I think should be groomed into the role as he shows the best skill set for it, Murdoch is good at that but they seem to like him further up the ground.
Menzel would be good too

 

[dazbroncos]

So we should discourage any moves in case they don't work?
Half this board sooks because from what they see the MC don't make ENOUGH moves (even though most are structural and not noticed), yet when they do they are smashed for it.
HMac was dead on his feet half way through the second quarter and if left without help (other than Blcavs) would have basically ensured we won zero clearances for the second half.
Of course if Walker did well in the ruck and Harry went forward and impacted the scoreboard the MC would have been heralded as geniuses.

People want to throw stones yet none seem to have a genuine solution to the obvious problems faced with the MC at half time that game.

But stones are easy to pick up and piff and they are everywhere. Real solutions and suggestions only emanate from a rare few… You are asking WAY too much of people…

Great post btw…

GO Catters

 

[kickazz]

Game plan is based on run & handpassing or turnover from backline.

When opposition up the tackilng pressure, we are forced to kick long, and we have nobody to kick to.

I don't think it is a good game plan for finals.

 

[sauron256]

I think our game plan is pretty good, but what is letting us down is

a) We don't win clearances, so have to rely on turnovers from the backline, which should be the secondary option for getting the ball
b) Injuries to key players
c) Our inability to execute it at our best over four complete quarters

When we are switched on and at our best we look superb. The first five rounds of this year looked promising, and then after that we completely lost the ability to win the contested ball consistently and it all went to crap.

 

[Whit3y]

our 2007 team we could have implemented any tactic "press, slingshot, 4-4-2, etc etc" and still would have won that grand final, because we were simply the best team

having great tactics doesnt mean much when we have spuds

a great team with great players playing there own game of footy will defeat any tactic

 

[Partridge]

So we should discourage any moves in case they don't work?
Half this board sooks because from what they see the MC don't make ENOUGH moves (even though most are structural and not noticed), yet when they do they are smashed for it.

Not at all. But there's a difference between making a switch that might work, as opposed to ones that clearly hurt us. Why would you move Walker away from the forward line when he was looking ok?

HMac was dead on his feet half way through the second quarter and if left without help (other than Blcavs) would have basically ensured we won zero clearances for the second half.
Of course if Walker did well in the ruck and Harry went forward and impacted the scoreboard the MC would have been heralded as geniuses.

That to me is the bigger issue. If he can't run out the game he shouldn't be out there. Otherwise the risk is he would get exposed. That's exactly what happened. There's another issue on top of that - why do we only have two genuine ruckmen on our entire list?

People want to throw stones yet none seem to have a genuine solution to the obvious problems faced with the MC at half time that game.

Not sure about that. Plenty of people on here have been advocating reasonably sensible practices for months. Namely:

- Strategically resting the veterans to keep them just that little bit fresher for finals.
- Putting games into Walker/Brown no matter what while Vardy was unavailable.
- Reward good VFL form for those knocking on the door, and not just name players. Bews in the back pocket is the obvious one there. For one thing you could have given Kelly and Enright a week off each. Would that have made a difference? The flipside is Smedts being brought back way before he was ready, and even after he himself said he wasn't ready.

The other one that I think is very constructive is stop looking at every long-term injury from a 'best-case' scenario and start thinking just a little bit about 'worst-case'. We can't just assume that they'll all return better than ever. It seems sometimes a few people at the club think exactly that.

 

[Xcat]

Great point - one thing that really disappointed me this year was that kick outs were invariably a bomb either to the flanks or down the middle, normally resulting in a contest where we'd break even at best. At worst, the kick would be rebounded to a loose forward inside 50.
I think we missed Josh Hunt more than I ever thought we would, and we need to improve greatly in this area next year.

Totally agree. Never thought we'd miss Hunt's kickouts but we definitely did.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Far be it for me to mix metaphors, but the optimistic part of me hopes the Cats are like this puppy here;

Huge head, big paws, but the structure that holds it all together, the body, is still too damned small. Geelong 2000-2003 looked like this puppy too.

We can grow into our bodies. And become killers again