Dustin Martins first 34 matches

[nut]

In Greg Williams' first 2 seasons he played with Geelong and funnily enough played 34 games. In those 34 games he was Geelong B&F winner, Leigh Matthews MVP winner.

Gary Ablett played State of Origin after 9 games with Geelong and kicked 8 goals off a half forward flank he also won the Geelong B&F in his first season and finished 2nd in his 2nd season. In his first 2 seasons with the Cats he kicked 115.95 playing wing/centre/hff.

I'll admit... I have little memory of Greg Williams first 2 seasons (thanks CUB)..... but you do realise Ablett played at Hawthorn before Geelong??

And by the way Ablett senior was the best player I have ever seen.

 

[Hawkforce]

Martin is a gun though. Should have gone number 1

Scully, Trengove and Martin are all guns. Best top 3 from a draft since 2001.

 

[nut]

Good player who will probably a great player but definitely not better than Selwood and probably not better than Judd.

He was brilliant last week against a VERY ordinary opponent.

He is not better than Selwood or Judd...... but his first 34 games he was, if he continues to improve at the rate he is than maybe one day he might be better. Please understand the OP before posting crap...

 

[nut]

I'll join in the fun.

Geelong made a prelim in '04, semi final in '05, missed finals in '06 when he was drafted and lost 3 of their first 5 games in '07.

 

[THECHIEFTON]

Martin has been tagged because richmond have nobody else worth tagging

Not sure if serious? You obviously have NFI!

 

[thecatattack]

but you do realise Ablett played at Hawthorn before Geelong??

Only 6 games. It's hardly worth mentioning.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Dont be sucked in by massive stats against 'witches hat' teams. I had egg on my face when i told colleagues to watch this kid rip freo apart at the g a few weeks ago and he had 8 kicks and 3 handballs

That's been his only game below 15 disposals; Judd had 11 (i.e. one third) from his first 33 games.

After 33 games:

Player          Age    K   H    D   M   HO  T   FF  FA  G   B
--------------------------------------------------------------
Martin, Dustin 19.98 12.2 9.4 21.5 2.8 0.2 3.3 0.9 1.2 1.0 0.4
Selwood, Joel  20.07 10.2 9.8 20.0 4.9 0.0 4.1 2.1 0.9 0.3 0.4
Ricciuto, Mark 19.09 12.6 7.0 19.7 4.1 0.0 1.6         0.5 0.3
West, Scott    19.70 12.0 6.9 19.0 2.1 0.0 1.8         0.8 0.7
Murphy, Marc   20.08 11.6 6.2 17.8 4.8 0.0 2.6 1.7 0.8 0.5 0.6
Hocking, Garry 20.94 10.0 7.2 17.2 2.8 0.0 1.8 1.5 2.5 0.7 0.4
Cotchin, Trent 20.12  9.3 8.3 17.6 4.2 0.5 2.4 1.3 0.5 0.4 0.3
Black, Simon   20.96 10.9 6.4 17.3 3.1 0.2 2.3 0.9 1.2 0.7 0.7
Judd, Chris    19.75 11.0 5.4 16.4 2.5 0.1 2.7 0.6 0.6 1.0 0.6
Voss, Michael  19.12  9.1 7.0 16.1 3.6 0.0 1.4 0.2 0.2 0.5 0.2
Bartel, Jimmy  20.62  7.5 6.9 14.4 3.4 0.0 2.8 0.7 0.6 0.3 0.3
Cousins, Ben   19.11  8.6 6.0 14.5 3.0 0.0 1.2         1.6 0.8
Hayes, Lenny   20.46  7.8 5.8 13.7 1.8 0.0 1.5 0.7 0.5 0.4 0.2

Add to that:
363 contested possessions to Judd 364
145 clearances to Judd 118
211 long kicks to Judd 175
124 one-percenters to Judd 121
Judd's PB was 26 disposals; Martin's is 35, with 5 other 26+ games

None of which proves conclusively that Martin is better than or even equal to Judd at the same stage, but the comparison is not as sacrilegious as you and others assert.

 

[Knight Ryders]

Love Dusty and will undoubtedly be a fantastic player for years to come. Statistics are hard to compare to even when Judd was at the same age simply due to the higher possession rates but my impression is that he is at least the equal of Selwood and possibly Judd after 35 games.

Different players, but on statistics alone, Michael Barlow must have an amazing record after his first 14 (?) games.

 

[nut]

so your saying the opinion of the coaches is irrelevant?

Fyfe has only played 30 games.... his first year was no where near as good as Martins... this about the first 34 games. 34 ... not 30 ..... Step into my office...

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I'll admit... I have little memory of Greg Williams first 2 seasons (thanks CUB)..... but you do realise Ablett played at Hawthorn before Geelong??

And by the way Ablett senior was the best player I have ever seen.[/quote]

I did realise that he played at Hawthorn, 6 games for 9 goals. We can just add his first 28 games for Geelong then to take it up to 34.

34 games, 1 B&F, 1 SOO game with 8 goals, 90 goals all up.

Poor bugger, you must have really hated those games against the Cats. I worked with a few passionate Tiges supporters (is there any other type) in those days and they used to be mental all week leading up to the games. hehehe.

 

[nut]

That's been his only game below 15 disposals; Judd had 11 (i.e. one third) from his first 33 games.

After 33 games:

Player          Age    K   H    D   M   HO  T   FF  FA  G   B
--------------------------------------------------------------
Martin, Dustin 19.98 12.2 9.4 21.5 2.8 0.2 3.3 0.9 1.2 1.0 0.4
Selwood, Joel  20.07 10.2 9.8 20.0 4.9 0.0 4.1 2.1 0.9 0.3 0.4
Ricciuto, Mark 19.09 12.6 7.0 19.7 4.1 0.0 1.6         0.5 0.3
West, Scott    19.70 12.0 6.9 19.0 2.1 0.0 1.8         0.8 0.7
Murphy, Marc   20.08 11.6 6.2 17.8 4.8 0.0 2.6 1.7 0.8 0.5 0.6
Hocking, Garry 20.94 10.0 7.2 17.2 2.8 0.0 1.8 1.5 2.5 0.7 0.4
Cotchin, Trent 20.12  9.3 8.3 17.6 4.2 0.5 2.4 1.3 0.5 0.4 0.3
Black, Simon   20.96 10.9 6.4 17.3 3.1 0.2 2.3 0.9 1.2 0.7 0.7
Judd, Chris    19.75 11.0 5.4 16.4 2.5 0.1 2.7 0.6 0.6 1.0 0.6
Voss, Michael  19.12  9.1 7.0 16.1 3.6 0.0 1.4 0.2 0.2 0.5 0.2
Bartel, Jimmy  20.62  7.5 6.9 14.4 3.4 0.0 2.8 0.7 0.6 0.3 0.3
Cousins, Ben   19.11  8.6 6.0 14.5 3.0 0.0 1.2         1.6 0.8
Hayes, Lenny   20.46  7.8 5.8 13.7 1.8 0.0 1.5 0.7 0.5 0.4 0.2

Add to that:
363 contested possessions to Judd 364
145 clearances to Judd 118
211 long kicks to Judd 175
124 one-percenters to Judd 121
Judd's PB was 26 disposals; Martin's is 35, with 5 other 26+ games

None of which proves conclusively that Martin is better than or even equal to Judd at the same stage, but the comparison is not as sacrilegious as you and others assert.

[YOUTUBE]2fWr6CBARMw[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

That's been his only game below 15 disposals; Judd had 11 (i.e. one third) from his first 33 games.

After 33 games:

Player          Age    K   H    D   M   HO  T   FF  FA  G   B
--------------------------------------------------------------
Martin, Dustin 19.98 12.2 9.4 21.5 2.8 0.2 3.3 0.9 1.2 1.0 0.4
Selwood, Joel  20.07 10.2 9.8 20.0 4.9 0.0 4.1 2.1 0.9 0.3 0.4
Ricciuto, Mark 19.09 12.6 7.0 19.7 4.1 0.0 1.6         0.5 0.3
West, Scott    19.70 12.0 6.9 19.0 2.1 0.0 1.8         0.8 0.7
Murphy, Marc   20.08 11.6 6.2 17.8 4.8 0.0 2.6 1.7 0.8 0.5 0.6
Hocking, Garry 20.94 10.0 7.2 17.2 2.8 0.0 1.8 1.5 2.5 0.7 0.4
Cotchin, Trent 20.12  9.3 8.3 17.6 4.2 0.5 2.4 1.3 0.5 0.4 0.3
Black, Simon   20.96 10.9 6.4 17.3 3.1 0.2 2.3 0.9 1.2 0.7 0.7
Judd, Chris    19.75 11.0 5.4 16.4 2.5 0.1 2.7 0.6 0.6 1.0 0.6
Voss, Michael  19.12  9.1 7.0 16.1 3.6 0.0 1.4 0.2 0.2 0.5 0.2
Bartel, Jimmy  20.62  7.5 6.9 14.4 3.4 0.0 2.8 0.7 0.6 0.3 0.3
Cousins, Ben   19.11  8.6 6.0 14.5 3.0 0.0 1.2         1.6 0.8
Hayes, Lenny   20.46  7.8 5.8 13.7 1.8 0.0 1.5 0.7 0.5 0.4 0.2

Add to that:
363 contested possessions to Judd 364
145 clearances to Judd 118
211 long kicks to Judd 175
124 one-percenters to Judd 121
Judd's PB was 26 disposals; Martin's is 35, with 5 other 26+ games

None of which proves conclusively that Martin is better than or even equal to Judd at the same stage, but the comparison is not as sacrilegious as you and others assert.

You forgot Diesel, Ron. 987 @ 29.03 per game when they were probably all meaningful. I know he was more mature but the OP didn't give any parameters except for first 34 games and within the last 30 years which Diesel falls into.

 

[Ron The Bear]

You forgot Diesel, Ron. 987 @ 29.03 per game when they were probably all meaningful. I know he was more mature but the OP didn't give any parameters except for first 34 games and within the last 30 years which Diesel falls into.

Yep, I set the cutoff at 21yo. Williams was nearly 22 by his 33rd game, i.e. two years older than Martin. There were a handful of players with averages a tick above Martin's but we're getting back to Robert Harvey, Wayne Campbell etc. in the late 80's/early 90's (so I probably shouldn't have left Hocking on the list).

 

[nut]

I'll admit... I have little memory of Greg Williams first 2 seasons (thanks CUB)..... but you do realise Ablett played at Hawthorn before Geelong??

And by the way Ablett senior was the best player I have ever seen.[/quote]

I did realise that he played at Hawthorn, 6 games for 9 goals. We can just add his first 28 games for Geelong then to take it up to 34.

34 games, 1 B&F, 1 SOO game with 8 goals, 90 goals all up.

Poor bugger, you must have really hated those games against the Cats. I worked with a few passionate Tiges supporters (is there any other type) in those days and they used to be mental all week leading up to the games. hehehe.

I thinks unfair to compare any player to God..... I'll retract and say the last 25 years ..... No one will beat Ablett senior.

 

[Barnzy]

That's been his only game below 15 disposals; Judd had 11 (i.e. one third) from his first 33 games.

After 33 games:

Player          Age    K   H    D   M   HO  T   FF  FA  G   B
--------------------------------------------------------------
Martin, Dustin 19.98 12.2 9.4 21.5 2.8 0.2 3.3 0.9 1.2 1.0 0.4
Selwood, Joel  20.07 10.2 9.8 20.0 4.9 0.0 4.1 2.1 0.9 0.3 0.4
Ricciuto, Mark 19.09 12.6 7.0 19.7 4.1 0.0 1.6         0.5 0.3
West, Scott    19.70 12.0 6.9 19.0 2.1 0.0 1.8         0.8 0.7
Murphy, Marc   20.08 11.6 6.2 17.8 4.8 0.0 2.6 1.7 0.8 0.5 0.6
Hocking, Garry 20.94 10.0 7.2 17.2 2.8 0.0 1.8 1.5 2.5 0.7 0.4
Cotchin, Trent 20.12  9.3 8.3 17.6 4.2 0.5 2.4 1.3 0.5 0.4 0.3
Black, Simon   20.96 10.9 6.4 17.3 3.1 0.2 2.3 0.9 1.2 0.7 0.7
Judd, Chris    19.75 11.0 5.4 16.4 2.5 0.1 2.7 0.6 0.6 1.0 0.6
Voss, Michael  19.12  9.1 7.0 16.1 3.6 0.0 1.4 0.2 0.2 0.5 0.2
Bartel, Jimmy  20.62  7.5 6.9 14.4 3.4 0.0 2.8 0.7 0.6 0.3 0.3
Cousins, Ben   19.11  8.6 6.0 14.5 3.0 0.0 1.2         1.6 0.8
Hayes, Lenny   20.46  7.8 5.8 13.7 1.8 0.0 1.5 0.7 0.5 0.4 0.2

Add to that:
363 contested possessions to Judd 364
145 clearances to Judd 118
211 long kicks to Judd 175
124 one-percenters to Judd 121
Judd's PB was 26 disposals; Martin's is 35, with 5 other 26+ games

None of which proves conclusively that Martin is better than or even equal to Judd at the same stage, but the comparison is not as sacrilegious as you and others assert.

 

[Leslie_Chow]

Like someone else has mentioned, imagine when Barlow reaches 34 matches.

Averaging 28 touches and a goal a game, after 14 games

Barlow Martin
11.4 Kicks Per Game 12.2
16.2 Handballs Per Game 9.4
27.6 Disposals Per Game 21.6
5.3 Marks Per Game 2.8
1.1 Goals Per Game 1.0
0.4 Behinds Per Game 0.4
5.0 Tackles Per Game 3.3
0.3 Hitouts Per Game 0.2
1.2 Frees For Per Game 0.9
0.6 Frees Against Per Game

 

[MightyTiger]

How do you know Fyfe hasn't? Maybe he's just too good?

Surely if Fyfe is getting votes from the coaches of the AFL to such a degree they rate his impact?

I am not saying he is clear cut better than Martin, but it is debatable whether Martin is even the best second year player this year. To compare him to Judd and Selwood is laughable.

Are you trying to say that Stephen Hill tags himself out of games?

 

[Silvagnis]

Gary Ablett v Shaun Grigg in their second season

Player Statistics Comparison
	
Gary Ablett 	Name 	Shaun Grigg
22 	Games 	               20
8.6 	Kicks Per Game 	        8.2
6.3 	Handballs Per Game 	7.5
14.9 	Disposals Per Game 	15.7
2.8 	Marks Per Game 	        4.0
1.2 	Goals Per Game 	        0.2
0.9 	Behinds Per Game        0.2
3.5 	Tackles Per Game 	2.1
0 	Hitouts Per Game 	0
1.0 	Frees For Per Game 	0.6
0.5 	Frees Against Per Game 	0.8

I guess that means Grigg is going to be better than Ablett if he keeps improving.



"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Early form doesn't mean they'll stay the best player in their draft and keep improving to become the next Judd.

A case in point is Deledio who won the rising star award.

FINAL VOTING:

Brett Deledio (Rich) 43
Ryan Griffen (Dogs) 34
David Mundy (Freo) 19
Brock McLean (Melb) 15
Jed Adcock (Bris) 14
Jordan Lewis (Haw) 3
Justin Sherman (Bris) 2
Adam Selwood (WCE) 2
Lance Franklin (Haw) 1
Kepler Bradley (Ess) 1
Will Minson (Dogs) 1.

Deledio was supposed to be the next Judd for Richmond.

 

[electricfeel]

Why are Richmond fans so quick to rubbish Fyfe?

All I see are meaningless stats thrown everywhere. "This guy had this many more possessions than that guy after 34 games! Therefore this guy is better than that guy!" Very ACA/Today Tonight-esque.

 

[nut]

Gary Ablett v Shaun Grigg in their second season

Player Statistics Comparison
	
Gary Ablett 	Name 	Shaun Grigg
22 	Games 	               20
8.6 	Kicks Per Game 	        8.2
6.3 	Handballs Per Game 	7.5
14.9 	Disposals Per Game 	15.7
2.8 	Marks Per Game 	        4.0
1.2 	Goals Per Game 	        0.2
0.9 	Behinds Per Game        0.2
3.5 	Tackles Per Game 	2.1
0 	Hitouts Per Game 	0
1.0 	Frees For Per Game 	0.6
0.5 	Frees Against Per Game 	0.8

I guess that means Grigg is going to be better than Ablett if he keeps improving.



"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Early form doesn't mean they'll stay the best player in their draft and keep improving to become the next Judd.

A case in point is Deledio who won the rising star award.

FINAL VOTING:

Brett Deledio (Rich) 43
Ryan Griffen (Dogs) 34
David Mundy (Freo) 19
Brock McLean (Melb) 15
Jed Adcock (Bris) 14
Jordan Lewis (Haw) 3
Justin Sherman (Bris) 2
Adam Selwood (WCE) 2
Lance Franklin (Haw) 1
Kepler Bradley (Ess) 1
Will Minson (Dogs) 1.

Deledio was supposed to be the next Judd for Richmond.

???????

 

[nut]

Why are Richmond fans so quick to rubbish Fyfe?

All I see are meaningless stats thrown everywhere. "This guy had this many more possessions than that guy after 34 games! Therefore this guy is better than that guy!" Very ACA/Today Tonight-esque.

Fyfe doesn't qualify... he hasn't played 34 games yet... CAn you please find where I rubbished Fyfe?

 

[Bazzar]

FINAL VOTING:

Brett Deledio (Rich) 43
Ryan Griffen (Dogs) 34
David Mundy (Freo) 19
Brock McLean (Melb) 15
Jed Adcock (Bris) 14
Jordan Lewis (Haw) 3
Justin Sherman (Bris) 2
Adam Selwood (WCE) 2
Lance Franklin (Haw) 1
Kepler Bradley (Ess) 1
Will Minson (Dogs) 1.

???????

He is just trying to tell us how good Brock McLean is.

 

[electricfeel]

It's moreso picking and choosing what you like when it comes to pumping up Dustin's tyres in regards to Fyfe. Apparently Fyfe being equal 7th in the AFLCA votes, voted by coaches, means nothing, yet the same coaches who decide to put a tagger on Martin every now and then is regarded more highly. What difference does it make?

 

[Ron The Bear]

I guess that means Grigg is going to be better than Ablett if he keeps improving.

You're comparing an outside mid to a small forward, and then with the benefit of hindsight that Grigg is not Ablett.

The thread is about the beginning to Martin's career. For some, it's beyond the pale to concede that a Richmond player is tracking well.

 

[nut]

It's moreso picking and choosing what you like when it comes to pumping up Dustin's tyres in regards to Fyfe. Apparently Fyfe being equal 7th in the AFLCA votes, voted by coaches, means nothing, yet the same coaches who decide to put a tagger on Martin every now and then is regarded more highly. What difference does it make?

Yes Fyfe is having a great second year.... but over the first 2 seasons Martin has been better....

anhow here is a nice puff piece...... straight to the pool room.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...t-leigh-matthews/story-e6frf9jf-1226080216059