Traded Dylan Shiel [traded with future 2nd to Essendon for #9 and future 1st round pick]

[Bunk Moreland]

Shiel for Pick 9 is perfect - nothing more, nothing less. As has been widely stated, he is not an elite midfielder.

Essendon would be negligent to cough up 2 first rounders.

I personally think 9 is about right.

2x first rounders is crazy overs and they won’t get that. Shiel isn’t Dangerfield or Martin.

As usual with these things, that’s where the clubs will start, a billion words will be written, there’ll be endless shrieking that Dodo is impossible to deal with, then in the end they’ll meet in the middle and a deal will be done, just as it was always going to be.

I’d personally be very, very surprised if Dodo gave up our 2019 first pick. The Bulldogs insisting on it last year, then us now needing it for Shiel would have taught him that. Surrendering it can cost you big time next year. Everything else will be on the table.

 

[citizen-erased]

We're not going to try and stiff arm them, why would we? we don't really have anything to gain by digging in here. My opinion of his worth hasn't changed since he nominated us, I place him at a decent first rounder + a sweetener.

My proposition is 9 and 34 for Shiel and 51.

dont mind that.
Also dont mind sending our 1st next year if a 2nd comes back.
If GWS are feeling generous, i'd give Finlayson a home too.

 

[citizen-erased]

Really surprised this is not called out more often. The insurance payouts to Essendon players involved in the drugs scandal coincided with contract extensions.

For the integrity of the salary cap, Insurance payouts to players who continued at the club surely should have been included in the cap. It was negotiated settlement with each player to remain at Essendon.

From The Age at the time
"Fairfax Media understands the Heppell camp met the Bombers earlier in the week but has not yet decided how big a claim it could seek for loss of earnings and reputation and health-and-safety breaches as a result of the 2012 injecting program.

There are reports Heppell could launch a case for more than $1 million, taking into account this would have been the first year of a lucrative five-year contract. But the Bombers insisted on Friday there had been no discussions about legal action with any of the players, let alone possible pay outs, and they were expecting an amicable outcome."

Heppell and others were able to receive substantial compensation outside the cap, which can only result in additional cap space for traded-in talent. Last year that was Devon Smith, Adam Saad and Jake Stringer, when Essendon outbid rival suitors to become the chosen destination. Now using the additional cap space for Dylan Shiel. Who next?

Massive advantage, and one can only wonder why?

(expects the usual Essendon posters to come deflecting and mocking)

whilst i won't deny that could have happened, and i wouldn't know if it did or did not, i don't think we paid Smith, Stringer or Saad that much in the end.

Smith was looking for midfield time. It was between the Dons and Geelong, the cats had just brought Ablett in (along with 2 selwoods, duncan, menegola and danger). So his opps were already limited.
Stringer clubs were dodging. we were the only ones to really show much interest (again Geelong did as well, but geography probably played a part).
As for Saad, it was Carlton or Essendon. We had Hartley, who he is good mates with.

Don't think we broke the bank for those 3. And we haven't paid a whole lot for Shiel either.
Wouldn't surprise me if we still had cap space to spare.
Especially if the likes of Hooker, Hurley and Heppell were able to negotiate salary through compensation

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Really surprised this is not called out more often. The insurance payouts to Essendon players involved in the drugs scandal coincided with contract extensions.

For the integrity of the salary cap, Insurance payouts to players who continued at the club surely should have been included in the cap. It was negotiated settlement with each player to remain at Essendon.

From The Age at the time
"Fairfax Media understands the Heppell camp met the Bombers earlier in the week but has not yet decided how big a claim it could seek for loss of earnings and reputation and health-and-safety breaches as a result of the 2012 injecting program.

There are reports Heppell could launch a case for more than $1 million, taking into account this would have been the first year of a lucrative five-year contract. But the Bombers insisted on Friday there had been no discussions about legal action with any of the players, let alone possible pay outs, and they were expecting an amicable outcome."

Heppell and others were able to receive substantial compensation outside the cap, which can only result in additional cap space for traded-in talent. Last year that was Devon Smith, Adam Saad and Jake Stringer, when Essendon outbid rival suitors to become the chosen destination. Now using the additional cap space for Dylan Shiel. Who next?

Massive advantage, and one can only wonder why?

(expects the usual Essendon posters to come deflecting and mocking)

You call it deflecting and mocking, it’s just tiring as it’s been trodden over so many times.

It wasn’t a loophole for us to pay more because the players could get whatever they were offered contract-wise at any club, and then get their settlement on top in any case.

Ryder left Essendon for more money and still got his settlement.

Carlisle left Essendon for more money and still got his settlement.

Hibberd left Essendon for more money and still got his settlement.

Melksham left Essendon for more money and still got his settlement.

Say Heppell did get a $1m settlement (which is ridiculously inflated).

He could stay at Essendon for $200k a year and he’d still get his $1m.

He could stay at Essendon for $700k a year and he’d still get his $1m.

He could go elsewhere for $900k a year and he’d still get his $1m.

One wasn’t larger or smaller depending on the other.

If anything, the effect is the reverse: a higher settlement could be negotiated due to a higher salary, as its proof of higher earning capacity.

 

[Zach Package]

Heppell and others were able to receive substantial compensation outside the cap, which can only result in additional cap space for traded-in talent. Last year that was Devon Smith, Adam Saad and Jake Stringer, when Essendon outbid rival suitors to become the chosen destination. Now using the additional cap space for Dylan Shiel. Who next?

Massive advantage, and one can only wonder why?

How much of an advantage do you think it really is?

Heppell signed his deal before he got banned in 2015, 5 years, how ever many dollars, still earning exactly as much as he was before. Hooker and Hurley re signed after but are both earning in excess of 800k each, market rate more or less. There's only 3 others left on the list.

What you're essentially saying is that by paying Tom Bellchambers, Travis Colyer and David Myers compensation money outside the cap we've been able to lure Dylan Shiel to Essendon by offering him less money than everyone else was.

I don't think you truly appreciate how stupid this sounds

 

[DERO]

Really surprised this is not called out more often. The insurance payouts to Essendon players involved in the drugs scandal coincided with contract extensions.

For the integrity of the salary cap, Insurance payouts to players who continued at the club surely should have been included in the cap. It was negotiated settlement with each player to remain at Essendon.

From The Age at the time
"Fairfax Media understands the Heppell camp met the Bombers earlier in the week but has not yet decided how big a claim it could seek for loss of earnings and reputation and health-and-safety breaches as a result of the 2012 injecting program.

There are reports Heppell could launch a case for more than $1 million, taking into account this would have been the first year of a lucrative five-year contract. But the Bombers insisted on Friday there had been no discussions about legal action with any of the players, let alone possible pay outs, and they were expecting an amicable outcome."

Heppell and others were able to receive substantial compensation outside the cap, which can only result in additional cap space for traded-in talent. Last year that was Devon Smith, Adam Saad and Jake Stringer, when Essendon outbid rival suitors to become the chosen destination. Now using the additional cap space for Dylan Shiel. Who next?

Massive advantage, and one can only wonder why?

(expects the usual Essendon posters to come deflecting and mocking)

Dodoro is a fricking genius!

 

[GroggSquad]

im surprised people don't rate him elite. He had a down year, but he was covering a lot of injuries at GWS.
At their best, he was an AA mid in 2017. Even when they had everyone back, he was the one teams tagged during the finals.

Im stoked with this. Essentially getting the 2nd player i'd pick from their list after Kelly...maybe 3rd after Greene.

I am reluctant to heap shit on one of my own, but Shiel was basically the "Shane Edwards" of last years AA side. Secured a surprise bench spot ahead of Mitch Duncan, who the majority believed had a much better year. Even Oliver, who missed out on last year's 40-man squad, was more deserving.

Almost all clubs would take Kelly, Coniglio, Whitfield, Greene & Cameron before Shiel at least. Ward is also a better midfielder, but age admittedly is not on his side. You should be stoked though. It is an incredible coup for the club and certainly puts you into next year's contender conversation.

I just think he can be deceiving. The 2 or 3 "Judd-like" things he does a game seem to distract people from the turnover kicks and his tendency to go missing for large periods.

 

[fridgeman]

When people are talking about future firsts they need to take into account the range it could be in and with Essendon it could be anywhere from 8-18 and the Giants are the ones taking the risk
I think as well if the Smith trade was easy so will this one and I think the important thing is the use of 2nd and 3rd round picks to the Giants in moving up the draft so I could see second round picks being involved

 

[Ron]

Dodoro is a fricking genius!

But for all that he still cant draft a decent player.

 

[Bombermania]

But for all that he still cant draft a decent player.

Hepp, Parish, Francis, Merrett, Fantasia

Agree can't find a decent player......

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Who said that?

Snake Baker on the North board. They sanctioned the poster who pushed back.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Whatever dude. Apart from the your "facts" having SFA to do with what I was talking about when you jumped in howling in protest, you're making a lot of sense.....

Facts are facts, big guy.

There are two contracted players, both nominating clubs. What's the standard?

 

[Ron]

Hepp, Parish, Francis, Merrett, Fantasia

Agree can't find a decent player......

Fantasia is a good get. Merrett is ok if an opponent isn't within 50m of him.
The other three are role players/wont make it players.
For all the high draft picks this isn't a very good return.

 

[Keystone agony]

Fantasia is a good get. Merrett is ok if an opponent isn't within 50m of him.
The other three are role players/wont make it players.
For all the high draft picks this isn't a very good return.

Heppell wont make it? He already has

Tippa, Zaharakis, Mckenna

 

[Keystone agony]

How many have avg over 70% disposal efficiency as an inside midfidlder who kicks more than handballs for the past 2 years?

 

[Bombermania]

Heppell wont make it? He already has

Tippa, Zaharakis, Mckenna

I knew there were more but felt like going easy on him. some just can't be helped lol

 

[blitzer]

I think the trade will end up being a bit more than pick 9 but I don't think it will be two firsts without something significant coming back our way. GWS are in a position where they probably only want to use really high draft picks so I could see them trying to get the two firsts out of us by giving us multiple second rounders back in return. We'll see.

I'm confident the deal will get done. We have the currency and GWS are quite a reasonable club to deal with and they have plenty of currency themselves to help make an equitable deal.

 

[Bombermania]

Fantasia is a good get. Merrett is ok if an opponent isn't within 50m of him.
The other three are role players/wont make it players.
For all the high draft picks this isn't a very good return.

Fantasia can play up forward or in the middle, Francis can play basically anywhere, can take a great mark, kick a big goal and tackle like a beast, Parish is developing into a good mid then there is Hepp, he can play centre, back or go forward to take a strong mark and kick a goal.

They don't sound like role players.

 

[Michael Quinn]

Fantasia is a good get. Merrett is ok if an opponent isn't within 50m of him.
The other three are role players/wont make it players.
For all the high draft picks this isn't a very good return.

Actually, Merrett is devastating if he doesn't have an opponent within 50m. There is a reason he gets tagged heavily. He also improved greatly dealing with a tag by the end of the year, although it's still a legit question mark. But he's much better than 'ok.'

Yeah, Francis might just be a role player... It's becoming one of the most important roles in the game though, and he's friggin awesome at it.

We may lack a few things, but we don't lack young talent.

 

[Bombermania]

I think the trade will end up being a bit more than pick 9 but I don't think it will be two firsts without something significant coming back our way. GWS are in a position where they probably only want to use really high draft picks so I could see them trying to get the two firsts out of us by giving us multiple second rounders back in return. We'll see.

I'm confident the deal will get done. We have the currency and GWS are quite a reasonable club to deal with and they have plenty of currency themselves to help make an equitable deal.

Wayne Campbell basically admitted today on NAB Trade Radio that the Giants have salary cap issues so they will probably want picks, because as he said they do have plenty of talent on the list.

 

[eth-dog]

But for all that he still cant draft a decent player.

Pretty sure he's drafted the most AA representatives other than Stephen Wells on current lists. Could be wrong though.

 

[Gavin Excell]

The Herald Sun can confirm the Bombers’ bid was the lowest of the four offers made to the 25-year-old, believed to be below $1 million a season.

The six-year deal is believed to be more than $2 million less than what Shiel could’ve earned elsewhere.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...s/news-story/600718846726bb182602c485e6a0ddd2

Is this a case of kudos to Essendon that the player seems them as being a destination where he will gladly take a lot less

Or

More damning on Carlton, Hawthorn and St Kilda?

 

[HeHateMe]

Perfect fit for essendon to complement what they already have. I go to a few essendon games a year so will be nice to see Shiel playing more often.

Glad all the ho ha has settled down. Always the same few intellectuals. Hey Lance.

 

[HeHateMe]

Why doesn't Dodoro just sit at 9? GWS can't just say no deal and walk away. They have to get Shiel off their list.

Conners got all 4 clubs to put forward there best offer to satisfy GWS and Essendons was the highest. Very smart move by the club to pay in draft picks not salary for this one.

It will be more then pick 9. I suspect dons 1st and 2nd that values shiel at pick 4.
Some rumours are 2 Firsts but surely not!

 

[hk89]

How many have avg over 70% disposal efficiency as an inside midfidlder who kicks more than handballs for the past 2 years?

Not many I'd guess, partly because it is hard to find pure inside mids that do kick more than they handball. Most of the ones that do are not purely inside. Tom Mitchell actually got close this year, but still handballed a bit more than he kicked (16 kicks 19 handballs at 72%). Players like Josh Kelly do it, but I'd consider them not purely inside (in fact Tom Mitchell got outside a lot more this year than last year, and his kick to handball ratio benefited greatly). Pendlebury does it in good years, but not the last two (gets the efficiency but not the K/H ratio).