Everyone is underestimating us

[wmvaux]

Oh shut up, no he wasn't.

Just because he got heaps of touches, doesn't mean diddly squat. He may have got it a heap of times, but he did **** all with it and statistics are not a true way of valuing how well someone has played. He was terribly out of form and in the first 8 or 9 round this year (2010) the AFC chucked the ball around with zero accountability for where it went. Just go and watch the games again and you will see how poor his disposals were. He was consistently miles behind the play and his man and ended up being forced into a back pocket against the Brisbane Lions.

2010 was a shocking year for Tyson.

Statistics do not tell the whole story. In those first 6 games we truly sucked. Lots of handballs to players under pressure and Edwards was one of the worst offenders. His only good game for the season was his last. He was no way best on ground in those other games. In fact I'd bet we had very few BOG's out of the entire squad.

Ok, well when you wonder why they aren't in the top 4 in 2011, you can look at the stats and see how many midfielders have more than 22.6 average disposals a game, because if you don't have at least 4, you won't be there. Getting the ball is the Crows problem, there ain't enough that get it enough.

The stats are via champion data, so that must be crap too

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Ok, well when you wonder why they aren't in the top 4 in 2011, you can look at the stats and see how many midfielders have more than 22.6 average disposals a game, because if you don't have at least 4, you won't be there. Getting the ball is the Crows problem, there ain't enough that get it enough.

We won't be top 4 simply because our players are young and inexperienced. You can quote stats all you like but if you didn't see the game or understand what the player did with the ball, your talking out of your arse.

The stats are via champion data, so that must be crap too

Statistics only tell A + B, what they forget to tell you is what happens with C,D, E and F. Tyson may have got the ball more than 24 times a game but if his disposal lead to a large percentage of turn over from ineffective disposal, that statistic becomes a waste of time.

You know what they say about stats? lies, lies and more lies.

 

[WALL-e]

You know what beats Champion Data.....good old fasion 'watching the game'.

 

[danger_to_walker]

Ok, well when you wonder why they aren't in the top 4 in 2011, you can look at the stats and see how many midfielders have more than 22.6 average disposals a game, because if you don't have at least 4, you won't be there. Getting the ball is the Crows problem, there ain't enough that get it enough.

The stats are via champion data, so that must be crap too

Mate, if you watched any of the Crows' games early on, you would understand that we were handballing around in circles and kicking sideways/backwards to no end. If a bloke is in the middle of those handball chains, dishing off to a teammate who is under the pump, or chip kicking sideways/backwards, he can rack up 20+ disposals with 100% efficiency according to champion data, but have absolutely zero impact on the game, ala Tyson Edwards circa 2010. If simply reading stats gave you a clear insight as to how a player has performed, Andrew Carrazzo would be a superstar.

 

[jenny61_99]

Ok, well when you wonder why they aren't in the top 4 in 2011, you can look at the stats and see how many midfielders have more than 22.6 average disposals a game, because if you don't have at least 4, you won't be there. Getting the ball is the Crows problem, there ain't enough that get it enough.

The stats are via champion data, so that must be crap too

Did you even WATCH any of our games? Goose.

 

[Tas]

EVERYONE over-rates their kids. That is your job as a supporter, nobody is paying you to be unbiased. Hell, the commentators they do pay to be unbiased are biased as hell.

It is much easier to be unbiased towards a side you do not have an emotional attachment to. Some like to over-compensate for general supporter bias, and there is nothing wrong with that.

After your 4 win in a row patch between rounds 13 and 16, ending with a solid win over Geelong, you guys had a lot of sides looking to play finals worried. When on song, the Crows have shown in the last two years that they are quite formidable, even for a bunch of "over rated kids"

But, kids are inconsistent, thats what happens when you are young. Supporters see the sparks of brilliance and can see the potential of what might be if the club can develop the player to be consistent.

Dare to dream. Life is short. Who cares if you are wrong. It is what it is about being a footy fan, the excitement, the hope, the expectation.

 

[sven_inc]

I hope you don't mind the intrusion, but in regards to Crows being underestimated, I see Kurt Tippett as a hugely crucial cog in what you guys can achieve (I'd comfortably say top 8) next year. Had a great year in 2009 but stagnated last season from what I could see.

I'm generally of the opinion that some KPFs need a year to consolidate where they're at before taking the next step to a greater and more consistent output soon after (ie Buddy in 2009). Do you guys feel that his game in 2010 was just a reflection of the Crows' down year, a step in his development, or was there more to it than that?

To take the topic of the thread a little further, I feel he is a massively underrated player for what he has produced in just a short time on the AFL scene (three years so far??). And i feel he has the physical tools and tricks to potentially be up there with the Buddys, Browns and Rooeys of the world. And IMO for the Crows to be up the top of the ladder again, he is one of, if not THE biggest pieces to the puzzle.

I'm keen to know everyones thoughts on the manchild?

Please move this to another thread if needed.

(Giggidy).

 

[ringo200]

I hope you don't mind the intrusion, but in regards to Crows being underestimated, I see Kurt Tippett as a hugely crucial cog in what you guys can achieve (I'd comfortably say top 8) next year. Had a great year in 2009 but stagnated last season from what I could see.

I'm generally of the opinion that some KPFs need a year to consolidate where they're at before taking the next step to a greater and more consistent output soon after (ie Buddy in 2009). Do you guys feel that his game in 2010 was just a reflection of the Crows' down year, a step in his development, or was there more to it than that?

To take the topic of the thread a little further, I feel he is a massively underrated player for what he has produced in just a short time on the AFL scene (three years so far??). And i feel he has the physical tools and tricks to potentially be up there with the Buddys, Browns and Rooeys of the world. And IMO for the Crows to be up the top of the ladder again, he is one of, if not THE biggest pieces to the puzzle.

I'm keen to know everyones thoughts on the manchild?

Please move this to another thread if needed.

(Giggidy).

I don't think there was that much difference between his 09 and 10, he just had much higher expectations. He kicked 46 goals this year to 55 the year before and took a similar amount of marks in both seasons.

I tend to think if he picked up footy at a more normal age instead of playing basketball through his junior years maybe he would have the tools to be up there with those sorts of players but unfortunately I think his kicking is always going to hold him back. Then again who knows what sort if things he gained from his basketball days that he wouldn't of if he was playing footy.

He certainly is a crucial player for us though.

 

[wmvaux]

Did you even WATCH any of our games? Goose.

I would of watched about a dozen games, so I got a pretty good look Adelaide and I've been right about Adelaide every year for the last 5 years.

The fact is watching a game you don't always get the full picture, I was at the Grand Final and got more out of watching the replay a couple of times, stats are facts, they happened, sometimes they can be misleading, but that's what teams use as their guides and if you understand that, then you might be able to see where they need to improve, instead of calling people names when they obviously have a better understanding.

Sure a player might get cheap possessions, but the player is in the game, it's the coaches responsibility to get the players playing the way he wants and obviously Craig wasn't having much luck with that.

 

[wmvaux]

I don't think there was that much difference between his 09 and 10, he just had much higher expectations. He kicked 46 goals this year to 55 the year before and took a similar amount of marks in both seasons.

I tend to think if he picked up footy at a more normal age instead of playing basketball through his junior years maybe he would have the tools to be up there with those sorts of players but unfortunately I think his kicking is always going to hold him back. Then again who knows what sort if things he gained from his basketball days that he wouldn't of if he was playing footy.

He certainly is a crucial player for us though.

Tippet was slow out of the blocks in 2010, but picked up in the middle and towards the end of the season, he's upside was always going to be minimal and what I mean by that is the best he would do is kick about 10 goals more for the season, unfortunately he suffered because of the teams poor form, likewise with Porplyzia, the team wasn't winning enough of the ball to get down to the forwards and as I've been trying to explain, this is why the midfield is so important to Adelaide's improving in 2011, they have 2 class midfielders in Thompson and Vince, but they need another 2 to step up and be as good and be averaging around the 25 possession mark to give their capable forwards more opportunities.

 

[ringo200]

Tippet was slow out of the blocks in 2010, but picked up in the middle and towards the end of the season, he's upside was always going to be minimal and what I mean by that is the best he would do is kick about 10 goals more for the season, unfortunately he suffered because of the teams poor form, likewise with Porplyzia, the team wasn't winning enough of the ball to get down to the forwards and as I've been trying to explain, this is why the midfield is so important to Adelaide's improving in 2011, they have 2 class midfielders in Thompson and Vince, but they need another 2 to step up and be as good and be averaging around the 25 possession mark to give their capable forwards more opportunities.

I don't think anyone is arguing that we don't need a better midfield to make the top 4, pretty clearly we do. Also I think you'll find most Adelaide supporters aren't expecting us to be top 4 next year.

If Tippett ends up kicking ten more goals a season and becomes a consistent 60 goal a year forward I would be ecstatic, especially remembering the Perrie, McGregor, Gill days.

 

[crowman86]

Vader said what I didnt have the time to type out, everyone on this Crows board massively over rates our kids, you can see it when you just look at the best 22 for next year thread with the amount of sides that have Jacobs and Smack as our two rucks... and then line up with a middle of the ground of Martin Dangerfield Henderson.. The brutal truth is that half of those kids will end up playing less than 20 games and soon fade into the background. Make no mistake about it we are in for a very up and down season come 2011

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

EVERYONE over-rates their kids. That is your job as a supporter, nobody is paying you to be unbiased.

Us in particular I reckon, because our kids rarely play.

So we don't have any actual AFL performances to base our opinions on. Whereas you guys see your kids in AFL company regularly in their first and second seasons, so you know more accurately than we do what you've got on your hands.

We have to speculate and extrapolate what 3 goals in the SANFL means in the grand scheme of things. Far more guesswork and far, far more latitude for optimism compared to the reality-check other clubs get by seeing their young players in action.

 

[crowman86]

Give it a rest Carl :/

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Give it a rest Carl :/

I'll rest when I see em play

 

[Tas]

Us in particular I reckon, because our kids rarely play.

So we don't have any actual AFL performances to base our opinions on. Whereas you guys see your kids in AFL company regularly in their first and second seasons, so you know more accurately than we do what you've got on your hands.

We have to speculate and extrapolate what 3 goals in the SANFL means in the grand scheme of things. Far more guesswork and far, far more latitude for optimism compared to the reality-check other clubs get by seeing their young players in action.

Neil is old school, I think he wants to be sure the kids are ready and will follow the structures. I don't think he is deliberately holding anyone back, guys like Otten and Danger who adjusted quickly went into the side straight away.

But I understand what you mean about the ones that haven't shown their wares at AFL level.

 

[Crow-mo]

You know what beats Champion Data.....good old fasion 'watching the game'.

i can appreciate what you're getting at, but if that were strictly true champion data wouldn't exist and clubs wouldnt pay a kings ransom to them.

but they do

 

[WALL-e]

i can appreciate what you're getting at, but if that were strictly true champion data wouldn't exist and clubs wouldnt pay a kings ransom to them.

but they do

I'm not having a go at Champion Data, it serves a good purpose.

But anyone who says Edwards was in our top 4 players for 2010 is on crack, and the good shit.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

i can appreciate what you're getting at, but if that were strictly true champion data wouldn't exist and clubs wouldnt pay a kings ransom to them.

but they do

Yeah but Champion Data stats only become a true way of measurement someone effectiveness when you have someone with the ability to correctly analysis them. Sadly for WMVAUX he/she isn't one of them.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Out : Goodwin Edwards McLeod
In : Martin Otten and Knights...

That's fine by me.

I think we are already forgetting how good those 3 blokes were. We will miss all 3 of them, lets not kid ourselves. When Otten played so well a year ago he did have Bock, Rutten, Mcleod and Goody next to him. Now he will only have Rutten....

 

[J-Ro-20]

I think your right mate.

If Taylor Walker stays we will probably have the best forward line duo (in Tippett & Walker) than we have ever had.

Modra & Hodges dont come close & the Modra & Robran duo dont really compare either.

If Tippett can improve his kicking, and Walker can improve his marking then look out competition!!!

 

[Tex200]

I think we are already forgetting how good those 3 blokes were. We will miss all 3 of them, lets not kid ourselves. When Otten played so well a year ago he did have Bock, Rutten, Mcleod and Goody next to him. Now he will only have Rutten....

Ah...Stiffy, Mick Doughty and Scott Stevens say hi. Not all the same quality of course but significant players with experience. And not forgetting Bock missed a large chunk of that season anyway.

I dont for a minute disrespect the players you mention nor play down their rightful status....but as I recall the players who propelled us to the semi final in 2009 were Vince, McKay, Knights, Porplyzia, Tippett, Otten with Vince, McKay and Tippett in particular almost dragging us over the line that fateful night.

All these guys either did not play in 2010 or went backwards in their development.

Edit....Tippett still had a solid season 2010

 

[Thylacinus]

My reasoning in tipping the Crows to be top four or thereabouts is not based on proven individual talent, but on the type of team that I see being built. In other words it is the collective potential pool of talent that gets my juices going.

It is true that not all are proven. This is where talent spotting comes in. Within watching Kane Johnson play 2-3 SANFL and/or pre-season games I could see he was going to make it. He was not a regular member of the side for another year or two, but I could see he had the goods.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not claiming to be Matt Rendell, although I was one of the first to get on his bandwagon because I could see in going for Danger rather than the safe and popularist selection in Ebert we had the person who could and would have the guts to build a very good to /elite team, not just a good team.

Time will tell and I could be wrong. I have been, like all of us, wrong before. There are also those things of time and chance that are beyond our control. But I am spotting a cleverly assembled list of goers of good character with athletic ability and a fair bit of footy smarts that collectively has the potential to mould very quickly into a top four (or thereabouts) side. A side that has a reasonably good blend of youthful enthusiasim and hunger, experience and know how. A well managed and coached side and club that oozes professionalism. One that may be a bit slower to learn some things than we would like, but will evaluate and change and grow where need be...and put in place proper structures to facilitate the change rather than just engage in knee jerk reactions.

There you go, my neck is on the line. Top four or thereabouts for next year, and once you are playing finals with a team on the rise anything can happen. I for one won't totally rule out a grandfinal appearance!

Not knowing all about the future (although we do have access to some things) or controlling it is one thing that keeps us on our toes and makes life exhilarating. Looking forward with you all to the 2011 season.

 

[BACCS]

snip...

All boards overrate their list Vader, that is why we are followers of our team. No need to drag on with a boring post putting everyone down who dares to dream. Seriously, get a grip.

 

[BACCS]

Most relevant thing from your post. Therefore......all this deserves is a MEH.

Couldn't agree more. Vader is just sounding like an old grumpy man in this thread so far.