List Mgmt. FA & trade wash up, what list spots & draft picks do we have?

[jackcass]

My pants are well and truly on. We recruited Dunn for gods sake!

Time will tell how that will work out. Could be a Wakelin like deal and we get some good footy out of him, or it could be a Simon Buckley type deal and we get FA. I'm prepared to wait and see which before I condemn or ridicule the trade.

 

[left at home]

Blair.

great move, he can tackle who ever the opposition ruck taps it to. locks it in the center square.
new game plan

 

[TradeDraft]

Who's our back up ruck?

• Cox
• White
• Keeffe

 

[Maggie5]

great move, he can tackle who ever the opposition ruck taps it to. locks it in the center square.
new game plan

Kick goals as well

 

[left at home]

Kick goals as well

if we are lucky

 

[Maggie5]

Yes but crisp was only 21 and Varcoe 26.wells will be 32 Mayne 29 and Dunn 30 next year.

I think that is what is bugging me more, their age and contract length in the case of Mayne.

 

[Chameleon75]

Blair.

You jest but I recall tony shaw playing crosisca in the ruck against north for a quarter, theory was we would have more run in the middle and rove the opposition ruck. Needless to say it didn't go as planned.

 

[Maggie5]

You jest but I recall tony shaw playing crosisca in the ruck against north for a quarter, theory was we would have more run in the middle and rove the opposition ruck. Needless to say it didn't go as planned.

I remember that, still love Tony though.

 

[Seedsfan]

We should at least rookie list Tyler Keitel

 

[Quicky]

The reason we failed to get compo is because of Wells and Mayne.

"Only clubs that end up with a net loss of players to F/A are eligible for compensation."

(Anybody who listened to trade radio over the past few weeks will have heard that line repeated a hundred gazillion times )

It's poor planning. In getting Wells and Mayne, we should have planned to retain Brown. We got nothing from losing him. His wage doesn't seem like it was an issue going off the newspaper articles. Now we are deficient in the position he plays. I know he enacted his free agent rights, but I still feel it was within our ability to keep him had we chosen to.

 

[TheWoodsOf72]

I cannot see a united team coming out of all this continued upheaval. We are throwing players around like dealing a pack of cards. Even if some of these new entrants have better skills it still does not make a happy united group of fellows, but then again they are expected to be all professionals and self motivating. In detail, I fail to see how we will get our run out of the back line and our game plan still stinks. We are long way off from being united like the Bulldogs.

 

[Quicky]

I think you severely over-rate the players we let go. They are only worth what clubs are prepared to pay, and the fact is there was little to no interest in them. That in itself tells you where they are in their careers. Is it better to keep them rather than trade them for pittance? No way! The just clog a spot on your list which could go to an unknown who may turn out to be a 200 game player. There is also an issue with attitude. Why would u want to keep a player who you are trying to get rid of and a player who knows where they are on the pecking order and so wants to seek other opportunities.

The pies did what needed to be done. We needed to get rid of players who weren't getting better. They get worse and drag the rest down with them. Better for morale to not have these guys at the club.

Our second best pick in the draft is 44. I don't think the odds of pick 44, or the later picks we now need to fill our list with, are likely to be better footballers than Cloke, Brown, Witts or Williams.

 

[jmac70]

Time will tell how that will work out. Could be a Wakelin like deal and we get some good footy out of him, or it could be a Simon Buckley type deal and we get FA. I'm prepared to wait and see which before I condemn or ridicule the trade.

I'm not comfident.
At 32 Wells is too old to figure in our next premiership, Mayne is a defensive forward who doesn't hit the scoreboard. Dunn is a VFL backman. WHE is a decent pick up. We have lost lots of experience for no gain. Our backline looks very vulnerable and our forward line is impotent. Our new Football Manager is on the verge of a lengthy suspension. These are darks times. Things are going to get pretty bad before they can start to get better.

 

[Chameleon75]

I remember that, still love Tony though.

He was an innovator. Just not successful.

 

[TheWoodsOf72]

I'm not comfident.
At 32 Wells is too old to figure in our next premiership, Mayne is a defensive forward who doesn't hit the scoreboard. Dunn is a VFL backman. WHE is a decent pick up. We have lost lots of experience for no gain. Our backline looks very vulnerable and our forward line is impotent. Our new Football Manager is on the verge of a lengthy suspension. These are darks times. Things are going to get pretty bad before they can start to get better.

i remember think that in 2013, three years on not much has improved.

 

[Quicky]

I must say I am excited by Wells. With him in our side we have a much better midfield and will cause headaches. WHE will also add a bit to the half forward line. Our forward line and midfields should be better than last year. I think our defence is light on, as are our key position stocks.

 

[BPikkers]

Our second best pick in the draft is 44. I don't think the odds of pick 44, or the later picks we now need to fill our list with, are likely to be better footballers than Cloke, Brown, Witts or Williams.

Why not? Even the guys you are saying we should have kept we're either rookies or selected well down in the draft.
There have been many great players who were selected after pick 44 as well as rookies who became fantastic 200 game players. Without even thinking about it, there was this kid named Dane Sean who was selected at 58. The list would be pages long. And to be honest, they wouldn't have to do a great deal to be better than the ones we moved on.

 

[OniAu]

We got rid of a lot of dead wood , filled some much needed spots onfield.

Mayne - adds that forward pressure we so badly need
Wells - HBF/Winger , basically some more outside class and elite kicking
Dunn - In comparison to the form of Frost and Brown this year , I think Dunn isn't a major bust as a replacement.
WHE - Speed/X Factor , goal kicker - makes it a potent looking attack if he lives up to potential

Delistsings/Departures of what we lost , id say our biggest loss is the one we had no control of in Marsh , that does hurt and probably compounds the Brown/Frost leaving factor. Witts to some extent also if Grundy goes down

I'm disappointed mostly in the picks we got for Cloke, Williams and Witts.

 

[Quicky]

Why not? Even the guys you are saying we should have kept we're either rookies or selected well down in the draft.
There have been many great players who were selected after pick 44 as well as rookies who became fantastic 200 game players. Without even thinking about it, there was this kid named Dane Sean who was selected at 58. The list would be pages long. And to be honest, they wouldn't have to do a great deal to be better than the ones we moved on.

Brown top 10 pick. Cloke would have been if not f/s. Chances are you won't get Dane Swan with pick 44. I think you undervalue the guys we lost, what they've already given us in their careers, and could have in the future. I hope you're right and we pull a few out of the hat with our late selections. But I just don't feel those odds are great.

 

[Ugene41]

Brown top 10 pick. Cloke would have been if not f/s. Chances are you won't get Dane Swan with pick 44. I think you undervalue the guys we lost, what they've already given us in their careers, and could have in the future. I hope you're right and we pull a few out of the hat with our late selections. But I just don't feel those odds are great.

Agree we should've retained Cloke and Brown. Although we replaced Brown with Dunn who was also originally a first round pick (pick 14). If we look at original draft positions, we actually brought in more first round talent even if Wells was a pick 2 14 years ago haha. We now have the following players all originally drafted in the first round:

FB: [ ], Dunn, Scharenberg
HB: Aish, Reid, Varcoe
C: Sidebottom, Adams, Wells
HF: WHE, [ ], DeGoey
FF: Broomhead, Moore, Elliott
RR: Grundy, Pendles, Treloar

 

[Tassiepies83]

We have gone backwards, great job Hine. We now only have 1 KPP under 25 that's fantastic list management right there

Let's not burn him at the stake just yet lol! If we don't get one at pick 28 in the draft I'll give you the matches to light him up!

 

[NoobPie]

I think you severely over-rate the players we let go. They are only worth what clubs are prepared to pay, and the fact is there was little to no interest in them. That in itself tells you where they are in their careers. Is it better to keep them rather than trade them for pittance? No way! The just clog a spot on your list which could go to an unknown who may turn out to be a 200 game player. There is also an issue with attitude. Why would u want to keep a player who you are trying to get rid of and a player who knows where they are on the pecking order and so wants to seek other opportunities.

The pies did what needed to be done. We needed to get rid of players who weren't getting better. They get worse and drag the rest down with them. Better for morale to not have these guys at the club.

Undeniably

There is a massive amount of negativity on this forum.

There are a lot of people, from a base of amateur football and sen listening, who are apparently more in the know than messers allan, Buckley, Hines, Harvey etc

These people are, of course, desparate and stupid. Sad fukkers with an average age of 48 who assert a know all negative position in a desperate attempt to feel superior to compensate for there general failings in the game of life. How tragic

Collingwood have done very well out of this trade / fta period.

We have lost no one from our best 22 and have added up to 4
We have replaced liabilities with the ball in hand with good to brilliant ball users
We have largely replaced slow lumberers with fast and agile

The only real loss is witts, who we did ok out of. He was always going to move given grundy

we'll get a mature rookie ruck as back up for grundy (and I wouldn't be surprised if cox could lay first ruck as adequate insurance by next year) and then I'm quite comfortable with where we are at.

We've lost nothing accept we'll be quicker with better ball use. We have a large quality cohort of 20 to 24's on steep probabilistic improvement curves

Negative fools are like cancers on these kind of forums

We will be fine

 

[Tassiepies83]

So the wrap up is:

Cloke gone. He left and is playing for mimimal salary. We recieved a pittance in return. FAIL. Would have been better retaining.

Brown gone. Exercised his free agent rights to play at another club for minimal salary. His wage was so little we failed to obtain compo. FAIL. Would have been better off retaining.

Witts gone. We received 46 and 62. Past trades for comparably aged and talented rucks valued him at 18-35. The team that ultimately dealt for him has 2 second rounders they aren't likely to use. FAIL. Should have held firm or retained.

Frost gone. The way the deal works out astonishingly we may actually have paid to trade him out! I'm not too fussed to lose Frost, however the return was terrible. FAIL. Should have held firm for Close or Freeman to sure up a developing key forward.

Williams gone. A return of pick 105 is insulting. FAIL. Given his talent would have been better off retaining as depth.

We have bled key forwards, key backs, and a ruck for no return. We only managed to bring in one undersized tall back who's best is gone past him. We didn't even try for someone like Stewart who went for a pick in the 70's. It's perplexing. Our tall stocks are now awful.

We did get Wells who is an excellent addition. WHE is also a good get but probably should have tried to include some of GWS key position depth players as insurance. Mayne and Dunn are both very underwhelming selections.

To add insult to injury, we failed to obtain a first round selection such is the poor return we received on our players. So while we will have a lot of salary cap next year, we are poorly placed with our picks to deal on any trades. We would be hoping for a free agent perhaps, but all the good ones are midfielders an area we are actually okay in.

I can't say I'm very proud of my club tonight. I'm terribly disappointed in fact.

Mate sorry your delusional and I'll informed, it's borderline nonsense.

 

[sr36]

Stayed pretty much the same in terms of draft picks. Got rid of the guys who can't kick. Improved our senior team. Big tick from me. Not sure what the angst is about.

 

[Tassiepies83]

Brown top 10 pick. Cloke would have been if not f/s. Chances are you won't get Dane Swan with pick 44. I think you undervalue the guys we lost, what they've already given us in their careers, and could have in the future. I hope you're right and we pull a few out of the hat with our late selections. But I just don't feel those odds are great.

Seriously though we have a better chance at getting players that are younger and give us more than the players that have gone out.