Politics Fascist takeover US 2025.

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I thought we were having a healthy debate. But I can see that I’m on borrowed time here. I’ve endeavoured to post rationally.

Obviously you disagree with the views I’ve posted and you’re the one with the big stick so there’s little point in me continuing to post here.
Perhaps you could tell us a little of the socialism of the Nazis?

Provide examples.

If you can’t, give me a yell, my mum is a phd in history specialising in the Nazis and the holocaust so I can give you some pointers. I had this stuff rammed into me as a young edgy 14 yo who was on the path to be a Jack van Tongeren ANM clown.

I have mein kampf on the shelf along with a bunch of other books on Adolf Hitler and if you aren’t happy with the translation, I also have it in the original German which is my wife’s mother tongue and we can really get nitty gritty.

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Although if you want to save time I can give you the gist of it now.

The Nazis called themselves national socialists because socialism was very popular amongst the working class at the time. Not unlike the German Democratic Republic and all the other Soviet states that called themselves democratic, it’s probably best if you don’t get hung up on a name or slogan.

……Otherwise you will get very confused about the Liberal party of Australia or believe with all your heart that Woolworths sell nothing but the freshest food!!! Rather than the reality which is that they got busted and fined huge amounts so many times in one year about 30 years ago, that they rebranded to the fresh food people as a textbook example of Goebbels great lie.

So there’s the name confusion sorted out for you hopefully.


Now beyond names we have actual socialist thought and policy. It will no doubt please you greatly to know that the Nazis had a socialist wing of the party - headed by Gregor Strasser who was an out and out socialist. His wing of the party advocated for socialist ideals and was a big part of the reason Adolf Hitler got into power as chancellor in 1933.

Hitler then solidified his grip on power becoming the fuhrer in August 1934.

So what happened to Gregor Strasser and the socialist wing of the party? Well the clues are in mein kampf. Hitler despised socialism and socialists. Gregor Strasser was murdered by Hitlers underlings on the night of the long knives. On this night Hitler had his budding ss take out all the useful idiots that helped him into power but had no future in his organisation and the socialist wing of the party was rounded up with the other socialists in Germany and put into concentration camps.

More here on night of the long knives:


Anyone who has studied the Nazis finds the idea of the Nazis being socialist in anything but name darkly hilarious. Hitler was all about big business, one of his first actions in power was to ban trade unions. Trade unions are the lifeblood of socialism. He had the socialists imprisoned, brutalised and worked to death as slave labour for big business.


Now getting back to what the mods are saying, you claim the Nazis were socialists, perhaps find some actual socialist policies the Nazis implemented rather than just claim it without any evidence.

Have a look at what I’ve written above, perhaps try and pick it apart, find socialists that achieved high office within the Nazis - present evidence….. at the moment all you are doing is saying “but they are” over and over again without presenting any counterpoints to highlight what you believe.

This sort of “lack of argument” leads the reader to assume that you have come to this belief based on a low information route rather than actual critical thought.

God forbid!! That wouldn’t be the case would it??
 
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I don’t think socialism is necessarily under the “progressive” umbrella but many of its stated goals are shared. I expect plenty of progressives would identify as socialists though, and few would identify as capitalists.

Capitalism isn’t necessarily conservatism. But I think there’s a large overlap between the groups.
I'd honestly say, if we have to use 'left' and 'right' (which the world seems intent on doing), that socialism and capitalism have little to do with those terms.
The Overton Window is closer to the truth - with authoritarianism and libertarianism being included; the former being the main defining trait of fascism and practical communism.

Going back to the original point: I would say that the current US administration is more authoritarian than those preceding, with Trump averaging more Executive Orders than any peacetime President since Hoover (who had a fair crisis on his hands).
Trump is also heavily focused on 'the other': non-white immigrants, transgender folk, 'DEI', etc.
He exemplifies 'the big lie' better than any other Western ruler in recent memory.

These are all key tenets of authoritarianism, whether fascist, communist or whatever. The only areas Trump could be considered libertarian are in the usual Republican ones: big business, and gun ownership.

Lastly, if you look at - what is widely considered to be - the tenets of fascism, you'll see that Trump already has a decent number ticked off, and he has only just started his second term: https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

So, I guess my point is that people have a right to be worried, and people saying "stop throwing around the word fascist/Nazi!", or "you're overreacting" aren't helping.
 
So, I guess my point is that people have a right to be worried, and people saying "stop throwing around the word fascist/Nazi!", or "you're overreacting" aren't helping.
those who ignore the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them…
 
I'd honestly say, if we have to use 'left' and 'right' (which the world seems intent on doing), that socialism and capitalism have little to do with those terms.
The Overton Window is closer to the truth - with authoritarianism and libertarianism being included; the former being the main defining trait of fascism and practical communism.

Going back to the original point: I would say that the current US administration is more authoritarian than those preceding, with Trump averaging more Executive Orders than any peacetime President since Hoover (who had a fair crisis on his hands).
Trump is also heavily focused on 'the other': non-white immigrants, transgender folk, 'DEI', etc.
He exemplifies 'the big lie' better than any other Western ruler in recent memory.

These are all key tenets of authoritarianism, whether fascist, communist or whatever. The only areas Trump could be considered libertarian are in the usual Republican ones: big business, and gun ownership.

Lastly, if you look at - what is widely considered to be - the tenets of fascism, you'll see that Trump already has a decent number ticked off, and he has only just started his second term: https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

So, I guess my point is that people have a right to be worried, and people saying "stop throwing around the word fascist/Nazi!", or "you're overreacting" aren't helping.
Where would you place Libertarianism on the “left right axis” (if we are stuck with that)?
 
Authoritarian/Libertarian is a different axis. Usually depicted as North/South on the political compass.
But just as the left/right axes aren’t straight lines but rather curves that meet each other at the extremes (at least in practice, if not philosophically - maybe mostly because they are bent up towards the authoritarian pole which becomes dominant), I think extreme libertarianism can look a lot like authoritarianism in practice, even if philosophically they are different.
 

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But just as the left/right axes aren’t straight lines but rather curves that meet each other at the extremes (at least in practice, if not philosophically - maybe mostly because they are bent up towards the authoritarian pole which becomes dominant), I think extreme libertarianism can look a lot like authoritarianism in practice, even if philosophically they are different.

Gethelred you've been summoned once more
 
But just as the left/right axes aren’t straight lines but rather curves that meet each other at the extremes (at least in practice, if not philosophically - maybe mostly because they are bent up towards the authoritarian pole which becomes dominant), I think extreme libertarianism can look a lot like authoritarianism in practice, even if philosophically they are different.

No. The 2 axis meet in the center.
 
Alright, thread has been cleaned up.

The thread topic is the fascist takeover of the US. It's not about immigration; it's not about captain blood 17's grammar.

To discuss the deeds of the president:

To discuss his government's policy positions:

From this point, off topic chat will be deleted.

Thanks all.
Australia Day weekend seems a perfect time to catch up on fashnews.

What's the latest?
 

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