Father-son and Academy bidding

[master bate]

What happens if you want to bid on Heeney and Moore!

Guess you bid on one first. But if Carlton bid on Heeney with 6 (and someone has to with one of the first 16 picks!) do they then get to bid on Moore once Sydney pick Heeney.

Such a crazy system.

 

[RUNVS]

1/5 of the draft will be already picked,that's bs

It also means that there will be 12 players who the expansion clubs would have picked from Victoria, Western Australia, South Australia and Tasmania that we will not pick up meaning that the depth for the other 14 clubs will be stronger.

 

[RUNVS]

When do the other 14 clubs get to establish Academies and have first refusal on the players involved. The fact that Sydney is likely to get 2 high draft picks at well below their market value does not sit well when we consider the COLA advantages they already enjoy?

Heeney I will grant you but 99.9% of AFL fans would not have heard of Hiscox before today. You can hardly claim he would be a high draft pick in the national draft.

 

[master bate]

When do the other 14 clubs get to establish Academies and have first refusal on the players involved. The fact that Sydney is likely to get 2 high draft picks at well below their market value does not sit well when we consider the COLA advantages they already enjoy?

There's a long thread on the main board so better not to start the debate again. Most non NSW/QLD fans agree with that logic. Sydney fans like to counter with arguments like they paid for it, they need NSW talent, Heeney would be nothing without them, the comp needs NSW talent and so on. Some of which are valid points but not of which justify the premiers getting top 5 talents at 15 picks under value.

 

[RUNVS]

There's a long thread on the main board so better not to start the debate again. Most non NSW/QLD fans agree with that logic. Sydney fans like to counter with arguments like they paid for it, they need NSW talent, Heeney would be nothing without them, the comp needs NSW talent and so on. Some of which are valid points but not of which justify the premiers getting top 5 talents at 15 picks under value.

Well he wouldn't. Heeney himself admitted that without the academy there is no chance he would have been an AFL player.

 

[themidlandmaster]

When do the other 14 clubs get to establish Academies and have first refusal on the players involved. The fact that Sydney is likely to get 2 high draft picks at well below their market value does not sit well when we consider the COLA advantages they already enjoy?

It used to be that every club could have an academy equivalent program; the scholarship program; Collingwood drafted Jarrod Witts as a scholarship player, and Adelaide drafted Taylor Walker as notable successes. However, the clubs were allowed to draft the players with the last selection in the draft, as they had nurtured them through the process.

The scholarships were abolished to allow GWS and Sydney to have academies instead. Depending upon how good Heeney is, I'd be amazed if Eddie didn't come out and demand a return of the program.

 

[John_Proctor]

A better bidding system to manage the 10-12 space gap with Sydney-heeney should be found but that doesn't mean the academies themselves are an issue.

Kevin Sheehan said if there is ever a day when there are 'too many' players being drafted from nsw and Queensland thanks to the academies it'll be a good problem for the whole league to have.

Hard to deny there's a go home factor in the league that needs to have some provision for balance with gws with jaskch, o'rourke and frost all wanting to come home this year and brisbane with last years 5 players heading home.

 

[dlanod]

What happens if you want to bid on Heeney and Moore!

Guess you bid on one first. But if Carlton bid on Heeney with 6 (and someone has to with one of the first 16 picks!) do they then get to bid on Moore once Sydney pick Heeney.

Such a crazy system.

Yep, they can keep bidding until there's either someone lets them win with their pick (and then it's locked in and it moves on to the next pick) or there's no one left that they want to pick.

It used to be that every club could have an academy equivalent program; the scholarship program; Collingwood drafted Jarrod Witts as a scholarship player, and Adelaide drafted Taylor Walker as notable successes. However, the clubs were allowed to draft the players with the last selection in the draft, as they had nurtured them through the process.

The scholarships were abolished to allow GWS and Sydney to have academies instead. Depending upon how good Heeney is, I'd be amazed if Eddie didn't come out and demand a return of the program.

The problem with the NSW scholarship scheme was that everyone just picked the top prospects. There was no state-wide concerted effort to increase AFL participation, which is what the AFL hoped would happen. And you're late on the Eddie thing - he's already had plenty of whinges through the year, until the AFL made it clear that any change to the bidding system would also affect father/son, i.e. Moore.

 

[eastfreo75]

It also means that there will be 12 players who the expansion clubs would have picked from Victoria, Western Australia, South Australia and Tasmania that we will not pick up meaning that the depth for the other 14 clubs will be stronger.

1/5 of the draft, other teams can't pick. Each player a bargain to the club.

 

[RUNVS]

1/5 of the draft, other teams can't pick. Each player a bargain to the club.

The fact that the academies have mean't that 20% of drafted players are coming from NSW and QLD is brilliant news for the AFL.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

When do the other 14 clubs get to establish Academies and have first refusal on the players involved. The fact that Sydney is likely to get 2 high draft picks at well below their market value does not sit well when we consider the COLA advantages they already enjoy?

Sydney are only getting 1 players below value this year. It is the one next year that will cause Eddie's head to explode. Callum Mills (Academy tied) is a top 1-3 selection and Josh Dunkley (top 10 selection) are tied to the Swans. Mills is better than Heeney.

 

[SimonH]

When do the other 14 clubs get to establish Academies and have first refusal on the players involved. The fact that Sydney is likely to get 2 high draft picks at well below their market value does not sit well when we consider the COLA advantages they already enjoy?

It's not hard to make the argument that, with not far off 50% of the Australian population between them, NSW and Qld form a significant part of the long-term (financial, if nothing else) future of the code that justifies special rules to increase participation rates and encourage potentially elite young kids to take up Aussie rules. And unlike father/sons (a category in which Vic teams have had the vast ascendancy) the Syd/Qld clubs actually do something to develop these kids (generally) rather than just hanging around waiting for ex-players to procreate.

My issue is that the AFL needs to find a way to increase identification of 'local club: local players' without compromising the draft. If there's nothing signifying a tie to a club's local area (apart from where HQ happens to be located... and that's movable), and all clubs being made of players drafted from all over Australia, what is there to distinguish one generic frachise-holder from another? That in turn leads to weaker support by fans, who over the decades become aware that there is now little or nothing differentiating their beloved footy team from all of its opponents. We can't go back to abolishing the draft and establishing geographic drafting zones; but the problem is that 14 of the clubs are encouraged to be passive and do nothing to work and develop their local area. Let's bear in mind that 90%+ of kids who are playing at even a pretty good standard as 16-17 year olds are never going to be invited to the 'draft combine' or taken in the ND. The answer should be that each club has a defined 'rookie zone' including their immediate local area (and divvying up all country areas)—and every year each club is able to nominate up to 3 players who hail from that club's rookie zone and who have missed out on the ND—the club can then 'zone selection' rookie them as of right (notionally the club's final picks at the end of the RD get used, just like for Sydney 'zone selections' from prior years).

It's too expensive to pay & develop a kid who's never going to go close to making it, just as a local area PR exercise, and so zone selections will only be activated for those players who the club sees something in. Despite the theoretical limit of 3, most years you'd expect a club would nominate a maximum of one 'zone selection' rookie.

The whole thing promotes a sense of connection between the club and the local community it represents, gives the clubs a reason to engage with local clubs & their development programs without breaking the 'no contracts/ direct training of under 18s' rule, and it doesn't compromise the draft as a pathway for sharing out identified elite talent fairly—only kids who have nominated for, but been overlooked in, the ND qualify.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

The fact that the academies have mean't that 20% of drafted players are coming from NSW and QLD is brilliant news for the AFL.

Sure. It's good news for the talent pool across the board. However this is a separate point and doesn't address the innate inequality unaddressed which can be classified into three groups.

1. Existing AFL teams in northern states. Brisbane and Sydney with access to the draft unrestricted, access to academy players and access to Father son selections.
2. Expansion AFL teams in northern states. GWS and GC with access to the draft unrestricted, access to their academy players and no access to Father son.
3. Existing AFL teams in SA, WA and Vic. With access to the draft unrestricted and access to Father Son selections*.

*Differ depending on the age of the club and the conditions imposed upon them by the AFL.

 

[eastfreo75]

Sure. It's good news for the talent pool across the board. However this is a separate point and doesn't address the innate inequality unaddressed which can be classified into three groups.

1. Existing AFL teams in northern states. Brisbane and Sydney with access to the draft unrestricted, access to academy players and access to Father son selections.
2. Expansion AFL teams in northern states. GWS and GC with access to the draft unrestricted, access to their academy players and no access to Father son.
3. Existing AFL teams in SA, WA and Vic. With access to the draft unrestricted and access to Father Son selections*.

*Differ depending on the age of the club and the conditions imposed upon them by the AFL.

That's the point. While its promoting the AFL and increasing the player pool. Cola Swans will have three top 10 picks in the next two drafts. In the two next drafts all of their picks could be f/s or academy players all at a discount.

 

[loki04]

When do the other 14 clubs get to establish Academies and have first refusal on the players involved. The fact that Sydney is likely to get 2 high draft picks at well below their market value does not sit well when we consider the COLA advantages they already enjoy?

What do you think Eddie has been ranting about for the past 6 months.

 

[Frez87]

Can't wait to see Heeney at the Swans

 

[The King!]

Heeney I will grant you but 99.9% of AFL fans would not have heard of Hiscox before today. You can hardly claim he would be a high draft pick in the national draft.

Hiscox was looked over by every club last year so people can just stfu i reckon

 

[The King!]

That's the point. While its promoting the AFL and increasing the player pool. Cola Swans will have three top 10 picks in the next two drafts. In the two next drafts all of their picks could be f/s or academy players all at a discount.

That would of otherwise not existed sook

 

[Demonheart]

And you're late on the Eddie thing - he's already had plenty of whinges through the year, until the AFL made it clear that any change to the bidding system would also affect father/son, i.e. Moore.

That was actually very funny at the time

 

[eastfreo75]

That would of otherwise not existed sook

U r ok with Swans getting a leg up all the time?

 

[Membling]

U r ok with Swans getting a leg up all the time?

I feel I speak for the entire supporter base when I say that, we as a supporter base, have absolutely no control over what the AFL do in regards to CoLA or the academies.

As it is within the rules, any club who did not take advantage of any boons given to them would be a seen as incompetent.

So to answer your question, I am neither happy or unhappy with the current situation. I am getting more and more annoyed with opposition supporters having a go at things we have no control over.

Go vent at the AFL.

 

[HPKS]

Can't wait to see Heeney at the Swans

And Mills n Dunkley getting drafted next year. What a fantastic development for our Sydney club

 

[Defacto]

Hiscox was looked over by every club last year so people can just stfu i reckon

who's cox?

 

[eastfreo75]

I feel I speak for the entire supporter base when I say that, we as a supporter base, have absolutely no control over what the AFL do in regards to CoLA or the academies.

As it is within the rules, any club who did not take advantage of any boons given to them would be a seen as incompetent.

So to answer your question, I am neither happy or unhappy with the current situation. I am getting more and more annoyed with opposition supporters having a go at things we have no control over.

Go vent at the AFL.

That's fair enough. But still why other supporters can't we vent on Bigfooty about AFL decisions?

 

[Kummerspeck]

When do the other 14 clubs get to establish Academies and have first refusal on the players involved.

I'm all for the other clubs establishing academies where the population and participation rate of football is like Sydney's or Brisbane's. You find an area that large where football is coming up last or second last by a decent stretch and make it your own. Hell you can even wait for six years before you produce a drafted player too. What a game changer.