Franks for the memories. Things don't always go well with COLA

[Procrastinator35]

Assuming he does go (As seems likely) then we had better get at least the equivalent compensation to that which the Cats got for Ablett....Else, I for one, will be mightily PISSED- OFF!!!

Sure Ablett is the best midfielder, but Buddy is the number 1 forward in the comp....They are way harder to replace & find than mid-fielders!!!

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Apologies for taking so long to reply GH.
While highly unlikely a switch to union would be possible for Buddy as a Wesley College student he would have played rugby union as one of the winter sports, he's big he likes to run and carry the ball rugby style and his current social running mates are union players, at 27 if he was tempted to try a switch it would be now or never.

Buddy would not get a spot in ANY Super Rugby or NRL team. He would be an absolute turnstile in defence - would have woeful ball handling, his kicking game wouldn't transfer over at all and getting hit in any Rugby code tackling would fatigue him in no time. Even if he had some potential - he'd take about two seasons of lower grades to bring his skills up to par - by that time he'd be 30 - and what team wants a 30 year old okayish outside back at over $1M a season.

Unless he was good enough to be an instant Wallaby (and he wouldn't be) then the ARU won't spend the money.

 

[Off The Couch]

Assuming he does go (As seems likely) then we had better get at least the equivalent compensation to that which the Cats got for Ablett....Else, I for one, will be mightily PISSED- OFF!!!

Sure Ablett is the best midfielder, but Buddy is the number 1 forward in the comp....They are way harder to replace & find than mid-fielders!!!

It would have been better if they had taken him in their inaugural start up, as it stands now its pick 19 and that's only if there are no changes between now and the end of the season where we could end up with nothing more than a spare million.

Free agency is great if your a middle of the road player, I don't think they envisaged franchisees throwing around massive, unfair amounts when they first floated thoughts of free agency and therein lies the problem

 

[hardway]

It would have been better if they had taken him in their inaugural start up, as it stands now its pick 19 and that's only if there are no changes between now and the end of the season where we could end up with nothing more than a spare million.

Free agency is great if your a middle of the road player, I don't think they envisaged franchisees throwing around massive, unfair amounts when they first floated thoughts of free agency and therein lies the problem

GWS, Swans and gold coast should not be able to sign free agents. Level the salary caps then have free agency!

 

[Gene Simmons]

Firstly, i'll start by saying that I'll be devastated if Buddy left the Hawks..and can't imagine us without him.

Yes we do have some great talent, and a plethora of goal kickers at our disposal but you just don't cover a player like Buddy... But anyway..

The way Buddy is going lately got me thinking today, at the moment he is playing in one of best kicking efficiency teams with great support around him and he is struggling... looks slow/sluggish, can't seem to handle the ball cleanly.. Ok..contestant marking has never been his thing but he is struggling even taking any mark lately... Is he playing injured? Surely would have been rested in the past 3 rounds if he was..

I know some will say that he is playing the team game..as long as we are winning... and that's fair enough but do you think he is doing enough on the field to earn a few $hundred thousand more than our next best player on the list?

 

[A Diakos]

^^^^^^^^
no he isn't at the moment but he will come good when (hopefully) he signs on...im hoping that he rethinks his stance and signs on before round 22....today he was very hard done by the umpires as well, the amount of holding that wasn't paid against him is ridiculous....let's not suffer from amnesia re his abilities, we need to make him understand a mill a year is good money (he is worth it) on a long term deal...more importantly the "Buddie brand" and his earn potential from merchandise and sponsorhsip will be tenfold at hawthorn, especially if he finishes up a 1 club multiple premiership player wearing #23 at Hawthorn....do not underestimate the damage to your brand Buddie and the massive $$ you will lose in sponsorship merchandising and other marketing activities if you leave Bud!

 

[Makedonija]

The last few years it was his kicking that was the problem. Now it is his contested marking that is a serious problem. Beats me how a 6 foot 5 bloke is incapable of taking an overhead mark. In this department he is incredibly soft and almost afraid to go up for the mark. It's very frustrating to watch.

C'mon Buddy, pull your finger out before the finals hit!

 

[Wurundjeri]

Winning GF's should be the raison d'etre for every club but it's clear to see that success on the field is not a guarantee for success off the field - see HFC circa 82 - 94. While Buddy may not be worth the extra 300K/400K over and above our other top liners you must weigh up what he brings to the club off the field. It's enormous!

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

he hates the media so why would he go to gws where he would have to be the Face of the club and afl in the media i reckon no amount of money could sway him on how much he dislikes the media probably more so after that story hs did on the girl incident

 

[grizzlym]

GWS, Swans and gold coast should not be able to sign free agents. Level the salary caps then have free agency!

Agree with this idea. When the basis of pure free agency compensation is 'freeing up the salary cap', and one of the mechanisms of restricted free agency is 'matching a proposed salary' then how can you hand some clubs massive advantages? It's inequitable.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Just guessing....But it looks to me as though his old thumb injury from 2011 has flared again....If so then it certainly explains his aversion to marking over-head....Last thing you want is for it to get worst or be punched!....Had his right thumb strapped today & on the left he was sporting a 'Michael Jackson' Glove????

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

was strapped last week too not sure if before that too but good chance

 

[wallyt99]

Out: Franklin
In: Grimley

 

[A Diakos]

Winning GF's should be the raison d'etre for every club but it's clear to see that success on the field is not a guarantee for success off the field - see HFC circa 82 - 94. While Buddy may not be worth the extra 300K/400K over and above our other top liners you must weigh up what he brings to the club off the field. It's enormous!

1996 was a result of gross board mismanagement and negligence....fat cats becoming complacent after the great 82-94 era and bringing our club to its knees, we are now a powerhouse club and if we are managed correctly with the foundations we have, we should and can only get bigger and better as a club

 

[Rushed_Behind]

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2013-06-02/hawk-offer-only-one-fielded-for-franklin

Last line is interesting. Never heard pickering say he had a gut feeling ablett would stay

 

[TAITA]

Agree with this idea. When the basis of pure free agency compensation is 'freeing up the salary cap', and one of the mechanisms of restricted free agency is 'matching a proposed salary' then how can you hand some clubs massive advantages? It's inequitable.

Disagree entirely - free agents put the "cat amongst the pigeons" that will allow us to break up 3 years of the most talented recruits being shared by 2 clubs.

Whilst their focus is on marketing and 'growing the brand' we can swoop and make football decisions.

 

[grizzlym]

Disagree entirely - free agents put the "cat amongst the pigeons" that will allow us to break up 3 years of the most talented recruits being shared by 2 clubs.

Whilst their focus is on marketing and 'growing the brand' we can swoop and make football decisions.

You're seeing a potential opportunity. I'm merely highlighting the fundamental inequity of the ground rules.

 

[TAITA]

You're seeing a potential opportunity. I'm merely highlighting the fundamental inequity of the ground rules.

Always looking for potential opportunities mate - it's what sets the front runners apart from the pack.

Long ago I worked out the rules are farked.

 

[hardway]

Disagree entirely - free agents put the "cat amongst the pigeons" that will allow us to break up 3 years of the most talented recruits being shared by 2 clubs.

Whilst their focus is on marketing and 'growing the brand' we can swoop and make football decisions.

The competition is still 5 years away from having an oppurtunity at signing restricted free agents from GWS and Gold Coast.

 

[LuvMyHawks]

As Maclure said;


"AFL is not about football, it is all about MONEY!!" He is spot on..

 

[Argy]

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2013-06-02/hawk-offer-only-one-fielded-for-franklin

Last line is interesting. Never heard pickering say he had a gut feeling ablett would stay

Pickering also said he hasn't got the so called $9m offer from GWS.

After seeing Sheedy on Before the Game on Saturday I suspect he could be the "impeccable source" behind the rumour. He said himself on the same show that he hates hawthorn. What better way to get publicity for GWS and reek havoc with his old enemy?

 

[Davo23]

Out: Franklin
In: Grimley

Okay, so what about the "we've won 5 games without Cyril, trade him to the Darwin Tomatoes!" post.

Out: Cyril
In: any player

 

[Guardian Hawk]

I have an unpopular opinion to add. I beleive the sentiment that we will be better off without Buddy is largely misguided and hopeful. If we were able to trade him for market value then sure but we are not. We are most likely to receive pick 16-19. Whilst people mention an anomoly like Fyfe, this is a speculative pick and history suggests this player is unlikely to even play 50 games, let alone be a midfield star that will provide more than Buddy. Even if we were to get someone like Isaac Smith (our last pick in this region), that would hold less value than Franklin IMO.

The second thing I've read on here is getting young stars like Lachie Whitfield and other mids from GWS - but losing Franklin does little to help us achieve that. Sure, it adds to cap burden for GWS and room for Hawthorn but these guys aren't free agents for many years. We will have to trade for them and offer more than 17 other clubs (in a trade not money) and that is assuming they want to leave in the first place. Either way, losing Franklin does not advantage us in this respect.

The final component is the ability to recruit young midfield guns with the cap space. Whilst this is true, how many young midfield guns do you see looking to leave each year? Hardly any. Clubs don't want them to go and pay them accordingly. More space does not mean better returns. Just look at all the average clubs who simply have to pay their average players more. Despite the fact they have more space, they can only bring in rejects and C-Graders most of the time (Dawes, Byrnes, Pederson, etc). That is because clubs (like ours - Brown, Murphy, Gilham, Young) allow themselves to be outbidded (or make a trade) for peroipheral players such as these. It almost never happens for genuine young talent. Besides, many Hawthron players have taken cuts to accommodate out talent laden squad, including Buddy. If we are to lose a chunk of that it is very possible that we will end up needing to pay our existing players closer to their worth.

Now, don't get me wrong - we WILL survive without Buddy!! Just don't beleive for a second it is in our best interests to lose him. As such (and this is the reason I am posting now rather than post season), I beleive as a supporter group we should do what we can to keep him. Bronx cheers, people getting stuck in at the game and Hawthorn supporting radio callers essentialy saying 'good riddance - we don't need him' (as some do on here) is not going to help this. Whilst the money is obviously a big lure, being a one club player with his mates and a large adoring supporter group must also play a role in the decision. So, while a decision is yet to be made, I beleive it is worth us supporters getting behind him, bringing signs and generaly being as loud as we can about wanting him to stay (ala Essendon fans with Hird). We can save the indifference, good riddance or moving on for when he has left. Why not do what we can while we can for the benefit of out club and one of our most exciting favourite sons.

TLDR: Let's really get behind Buddy for the rest of the year as supporters (as an encouragement to stay) because whilst we'll be fine without him, losing Buddy will NOT be better for the team.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

One more thing to add (didn't want to make the last post any bigger);

Some also point to the game on the weekend as an indicator that Buddy is overratted and him leaving will be seamless for our forwardline (in fact they say it would even be beneficial as we waste forward entries on a player that can't mark the ball). Aside from the fact Buddy has been brilliant for years and was heavily infringed upon on the weekend, people underestimate the influence his presence created on the weekend. Time and time again he absorbed the attention of their best defender (Frawley) plus an extra man (usually Pederson). This allowed our other forwards (Roughead, Grimley, etc) to be free and really hurt Melbourne. It also meant that the likes of Roughie and Grimmers had 3rd tall type opponents rather than an All Austrlian in Frawley. Beyond that, Franklin still brough the ball down to Breust, Burgoyne, Puopolo and even Roughead who dined out - scoring multiple goals directly off Franklin crumbs despite Franklin being held and competing 2 on 1. That is a huge win. Almost as as addendum, Franklin did still have 5 shots at goal and kick 2. Whilst we still have a very capable forward line without him, replacing him with someone outside the 22 will obviously not improve the side. Some have spoken of O'Brien but at the moment he is just a tall draftee that has shown nothing yet. He still has a way to get past the draft average of 20 something games let alone replace Franklin. At the moment he looks raw and is still learning his craft at the Box Hill development squad.

 

[Halcon]

One more thing to add (didn't want to make the last post any bigger);

Some also point to the game on the weekend as an indicator that Buddy is overratted and him leaving will be seamless for our forwardline (in fact they say it would even be beneficial as we waste forward entries on a player that can't mark the ball). Aside from the fact Buddy has been brilliant for years and was heavily infringed upon on the weekend, people underestimate the influence his presence created on the weekend. Time and time again he absorbed the attention of their best defender (Frawley) plus an extra man (usually Pederson). This allowed our other forwards (Roughead, Grimley, etc) to be free and really hurt Melbourne. It also meant that the likes of Roughie and Grimmers had 3rd tall type opponents rather than an All Austrlian in Frawley. Beyond that, Franklin still brough the ball down to Breust, Burgoyne, Puopolo and even Roughead who dined out - scoring multiple goals directly off Franklin crumbs despite Franklin being held and competing 2 on 1. That is a huge win. Almost as as addendum, Franklin did still have 5 shots at goal and kick 2. Whilst we still have a very capable forward line without him, replacing him with someone outside the 22 will obviously not improve the side. Some have spoken of O'Brien but at the moment he is just a tall draftee that has shown nothing yet. He still has a way to get past the draft average of 20 something games let alone replace Franklin. At the moment he looks raw and is still learning his craft at the Box Hill development squad.

I think this is often overlooked/down-played.