News Gabba Upgrade & Olympics News

[Andyz]

Yes I agree... and it did look bloody fantastic in the mock ups with the pedestrian bridges across Main and Stanley Sts.

A stadium like that would put brisbane on the map! Every afl & cricket fan in the country would be planning a trip to see it imagine the boost to the economy. Not to mention other big events we need to attract.

Can’t work out why they struggle to make long term decisions, I feel it in the water that we’ll get a minor upgrade & have to wait years for anything decent….which if that ever happens will probably be a staged rebuild anyway & fail to achieve the above since it would likely be post Olympics. The whole country will laugh if we hold the Olympics & the Gabba isn’t rebuilt….everyone will be walking around in 10 years wondering what the hell happened back in 2024…

 

[Viceregal]

Can’t work out why they struggle to make long term decisions,

As that great humanitarian and moral philosopher Sir Humphrey Appelby once noted ... "Diplomacy is about surviving until the next century. Politics is about surviving until Friday afternoon."

 

[weevil]

Really? What's your source for this? With the large increase in population intended for the area, I would imagine a school is more important than ever.

That's how it works. If demographic changes make schools too large or too small for their catchments they replace or merge them with schools that better meet the new demands. 100-plus year-old schools have closed for these reasons.

https://education.qld.gov.au/parents/school-information/Documents/change-register.xls

We can't just magically make the current school a vertical school because half of the buildings are heritage-listed. And we can't demolish and reconstruct the ones that aren’t heritage-listed and use them as classrooms at the same time.

Build times for these sorts of site-restricted projects are several years. We can't build a school and be a school at the same time, on a dot of land the size of a postage stamp.

The community engagement found that "most community members accept that the school will move" and the school P&C proposed closing the current school and relocating.

School axed for Gabba upgrade wants new building in prime spot

The state government examined whether a replacement school could be built above Woolloongabba’s Cross River Rail station.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

So there is no argument that the school community has some fundamental religious, commitment to the current location no matter what.

That requires substation upgrades and rewiring. It doesn't require a complete knock down and rebuild to fix.

Oh, I see where you are going. Yes, technically we could fix pretty much any problem in the world...with unlimited resources, money and time. But we are in the real world here and the validation report found that the Gabba can not meet the Game's requirements without a rebuild.

My argument never was 'The school proponent's arguments would break the laws of physics'.

My argument was 'The school proponents make unrealistic proposals and claim them as "easy" solutions'.

If the problem with the power was "easily" fixed, it would already be fixed. If the problem was just the substation, they would just fix the substation. If the problem was just a box inside the Gabba, they'd just fix the box inside the Gabba.

You are right that the substations do need upgrades too, but the fundamental issues are not with the substations, they are deep within the Gabba.

Gabba boss says Olympic rebuild will solve electrical woes

A planned rebuild of Brisbane’s ageing Gabba stadium could help prevent a third repeat of an embarrassing blackout during a major sporting event.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

This is one long straw man argument. Nobody is suggesting using the exact same facility that's at QSAC right now. Everyone who has suggested this option has suggested a stand rebuild and the use of temporary stands for further capacity. This is similar to what was in the actual bid, except it was at Albion Park.

Oh my god, obviously they would upgrade it from its current state to host the games. And obviously it would still be a colossal international embarrassment and would permanently do massive damage to our reputation.

Rio

Tokyo



Paris



LA



Brisbane



Lovely view of the cemetery in the background there...

Oh look here is the international media arriving in Brisbane now:



We can try to polish that turd as hard as we like, but it's obviously nowhere near the same league. It's going to look like a toilet block in comparison.

As a point of reference, it cost the LA stadium nearly half a billion dollars just to install new seats, some corporate boxes, Wi-Fi and handrails. The amount of money required to even try to fake QSAC being an international-class venue would be phenomenal.

AND we would also have to spend breathtaking amounts of money upgrading the public transport to even get there. Even the Greens admit it would have to be a huge bus upgrade and an underground train line.

AND we are pouring all the money for all those upgrades down the toilet because QSAC has been a proven white elephant for 60 years. Look at the photo, it's a billion miles from anywhere, and no one will ever use it again after the games.

Or are we happy for the Lions games, Test matches and BBL games to be permanently relocated to QSAC? Because that is the only way QSAC becomes a working stadium. Otherwise, we are spending billions on a venue for school sporting carnivals and athletics.

AND we are still going to have to spend into the billions fixing the Gabba anyway. Because it's actually the stadium that gets used, and its problems haven't just magically disappeared.

...All of this just follows this pattern of these stupendously open-ended, unlimited-budget, "easy" solutions, but only when it suits keeping the school open.

If it involves keeping the school open, trivial things like money seem to be of zero consequence, it doesn't seem to matter how large the cost or how little the returns. But if it's a solution that involves the school closing then all of a sudden it's "Goodness gracious, we are very concerned about spending that sort of money".

Shouldn't we be applying the same standards to both sides of the argument?

Ultimately if it's "easy" to have the games at QSAC, isn't it easy for a handful of kids to go to a school that is a little bit further away? Couldn't the kids just walk to the old school site like they used to and then add a seven-minute bus ride to the new school?

There is no doubt whatsoever that the Gabba rebuild is really hard. But if I look at all the other options with the same glasses on, they look just as hard but more expensive.

You haven't demonstrated how most of the assumptions are erroneous.

I'm following the expert advice, if someone is disagreeing with that, they'll need to produce the evidence.

My preference is for a new stadium at Victoria Park.

I agree, it would be great if they could do it at Victoria Park, it would seem to solve so many problems. But they said they looked at all the other inner city options and they were more expensive than a Gabba rebuild.

But hey, if Quirk's panel come back saying they have found a way to make things work at VP or somewhere else in the inner city then great. If they can find a solution that balances all the issues and comes up with a reasonable, sensible compromise then let's go.

 

[Mighty Lions]

A stadium like that would put brisbane on the map! Every afl & cricket fan in the country would be planning a trip to see it imagine the boost to the economy. Not to mention other big events we need to attract.

Can’t work out why they struggle to make long term decisions, I feel it in the water that we’ll get a minor upgrade & have to wait years for anything decent….which if that ever happens will probably be a staged rebuild anyway & fail to achieve the above since it would likely be post Olympics. The whole country will laugh if we hold the Olympics & the Gabba isn’t rebuilt….everyone will be walking around in 10 years wondering what the hell happened back in 2024…

Most people would agree that spending over $3 billion (probably closer to 4 ) on a stadium while we have a housing crisis and significant problems with our hospitals would be self indulgent and morally wrong right now.
A re-fit (not using the word facelift any more) and/or renovation incorporating the new cross-river rail project & increased seating capacity is much more appropriate in my opinion and a fraction of the cost of a re-build.

 

[Grasshopper17]

LA

Great post! Question about LA. I could be wrong but that looks like the Rose Bowl to me? Are they really going to have the ceremonies and the athletics there? I had assumed they would have them at the new fancy stadium with the roof etc.

 

[Black Panther]

That is the LA Coliseum which hosted the 1984 Games and will host the Track & Field in 2028. Ceremonies are proposed to be held at the "newish" SoFi Stadium (home of the NFL Rams/Chargers)

 

[Section 5]

Most people would agree that spending over $3 billion (probably closer to 4 ) on a stadium while we have a housing crisis and significant problems with our hospitals would be self indulgent and morally wrong right now.
A re-fit (not using the word facelift any more) and/or renovation incorporating the new cross-river rail project & increased seating capacity is much more appropriate in my opinion and a fraction of the cost of a re-build.

Mighty Lions it has been mentioned may times - No Olympics No extra billions available to worthy causes like hospitals & housing.
No Olympics and the State/Federal budget will be business as usual.
These worthy causes will get the usual small % increases each year not a mass investment of extra billions on top.

Also, worthy causes don't generate revenue however staging the Olympics does.

 

[Viceregal]

Mighty Lions it has been mentioned may times - No Olympics No extra billions available to worthy causes like hospitals & housing.
No Olympics and the State/Federal budget will be business as usual.
These worthy causes will get the usual small % increases each year not a mass investment of extra billions on top.

Also, worthy causes don't generate revenue however staging the Olympics does.

nods ... the concept that if we pull out of the Games the money the various revenue streams were providing explicitly because of the Games will still be available for user discretion is a brain puzzler...

IF we do the games ( )
THEN we get this dedicated money ( )
ELSE do not get that dedicated money ( )

 

[Section 5]

The next two Olympics.
Paris 2024 games latest cost assessed Aus$13.7 billion. IOC approved Paris in 2017 so missed the world inflation issues.
LA games latest costs assessment AUS$10.6 billion. IOC approved LA the same time as Paris so also missed the bad inflation years.

The so-called staggering amount of money of $7 billion being spent on Brisbane for an Olympics 8.5 years away is very misleading.
This is easily manageable with the long lead in time for budgeting.
The problems are mostly political which means the various media get involved quoting all sorts of so-called big issues.
The Palecek Government handled this badly, mostly because she was off her game and knew she was leaving. So, big damage done.

Taking some figures from the 2023/4 Queensland State budget and not going into a lot of detail just the briefest summary.

Total Brisbane games budget $7 billion, less $2.098 billion already budgeted for in the next 4 years with $4.902 billion to be budgeted in the last 4 years as construction picks up.

Future budgets will get adjusted yearly for the next 7-8 years in regard to the Olympics.

 

[Dalions]

nods ... the concept that if we pull out of the Games the money the various revenue streams were providing explicitly because of the Games will still be available for user discretion is a brain puzzler...

IF we do the games ( )
THEN we get this dedicated money ( )
ELSE do not get that dedicated money ( )

You mean, the money tree will just disappear?

 

[Dalions]

Most people would agree that spending over $3 billion (probably closer to 4 ) on a stadium while we have a housing crisis and significant problems with our hospitals would be self indulgent and morally wrong right now.
A re-fit (not using the word facelift any more) and/or renovation incorporating the new cross-river rail project & increased seating capacity is much more appropriate in my opinion and a fraction of the cost of a re-build.

Just like Footy clubs do not like to use the word Re-Build.
Facelift, Re-fit, Renovation, Re-Plumb, Re-wire, all just sounds like Political speak for the word Re-Build.
Politically, not wanting to use that term to mitigate the backlash that has already been associated with it, in this case.

 

[M Malice]

Mighty Lions it has been mentioned may times - No Olympics No extra billions available to worthy causes like hospitals & housing.
No Olympics and the State/Federal budget will be business as usual.
These worthy causes will get the usual small % increases each year not a mass investment of extra billions on top.

Also, worthy causes don't generate revenue however staging the Olympics does.

nods ... the concept that if we pull out of the Games the money the various revenue streams were providing explicitly because of the Games will still be available for user discretion is a brain puzzler...

IF we do the games ( )
THEN we get this dedicated money ( )
ELSE do not get that dedicated money ( )

Yes, delusional to think if we were do to an Aldi Olympics that the "saved" money would magically, drastically improve Education, Health and Housing issues, all that talk is political, opportunistic dog whistling.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Mighty Lions it has been mentioned may times - No Olympics No extra billions available to worthy causes like hospitals & housing.
No Olympics and the State/Federal budget will be business as usual.
These worthy causes will get the usual small % increases each year not a mass investment of extra billions on top.

Also, worthy causes don't generate revenue however staging the Olympics does.

The cynicism in me says thats poppycock Section. (no disrespect) It may have been that way back in the 70's, 80'S & 90's but in this modern age all decisions are based on either what gets them votes in the next election or which is the right palm to grease. If fixing the housing crisis gets them re-elected, it will have $ allocated to it. Albo lost a huge amount of support with his Voice Campaign (costing over $400 Million) while we have ambulance ramping all over the country. He wont make that same mistake again I believe.
Worthy causes may not generate revenue but they do sometimes generate votes which in todays Pollies eyes is much more important.

P.S. Not all Olympics generate revenue, in fact, plenty have generated significant debt as well. The 1984 LA summer Olympics were the last one to return a profit....I guess the prize we get is improved/modern infrastructure but is that specific infrastructure what we desperately need or are there other infrastructures needed more urgently?

 

[Bjo187]

The next two Olympics.
Paris 2024 games latest cost assessed Aus$13.7 billion. IOC approved Paris in 2017 so missed the world inflation issues.
LA games latest costs assessment AUS$10.6 billion. IOC approved LA the same time as Paris so also missed the bad inflation years.

My goodness, how easy would it have been to come out selling it as 'we have gotten the games and are going to deliver them at nearly half the cost of this year's Paris Olympics, with great legacy benefits for the city'.

It was sold so incompetently to the public, what did they expect.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

That's how it works. If demographic changes make schools too large or too small for their catchments they replace or merge them with schools that better meet the new demands. 100-plus year-old schools have closed for these reasons.

Of course. However, if the school is too small for the catchment area, does it make sense to remove the school completely from that same catchment area and make everyone either drive or take the bus? (And let's be honest, given Australia's car culture, most of them will be driving, thus making peak hour traffic worse).

I would suggest this doesn't make sense. What would make sense is either expanding the existing school, or if that's impossible, acquiring another block in the area to fit in a new school campus. The government refused to do either of these things. Why wouldn't the local community be annoyed about that?

We can't just magically make the current school a vertical school because half of the buildings are heritage-listed.

Did you look this up before writing your comment? Because it's wrong. The heritage register says only two buildings are heritage listed, Block A and the former gymnasium, plus the former parade ground which is an open space. There are more than four buildings at this school.



I see multiple spaces where taller buildings can be constructed.

And we can't demolish and reconstruct the ones that aren’t heritage-listed and use them as classrooms at the same time.

A solution has already been proposed that covers this: acquire commercial properties on the other side of Wellington Rd, replace them with school buildings and build an overpass footbridge to connect the two sites.

Build times for these sorts of site-restricted projects are several years. We can't build a school and be a school at the same time, on a dot of land the size of a postage stamp.

This kind of exaggeration isn't helping anyone. Buildings have been built in small patches of land before.

The community engagement found that "most community members accept that the school will move" and the school P&C proposed closing the current school and relocating.

Have you worked in any institution that performs community engagement? I have. Community engagement can deliver whatever your bosses want it to deliver, if they selectively focus on the responses that align with their plan and ignore the ones that don't.

Where did the P&C propose relocating to, Coorparoo?

So there is no argument that the school community has some fundamental religious, commitment to the current location no matter what.

Okay, then the government should provide an adequate solution that isn't 2km away. Their problem is they want to give a rapidly growing community an inconvenient solution that leaves them worse off, and expect the community to just accept it because the little people must get out of the way when there's lots of money to be made.

Oh, I see where you are going. Yes, technically we could fix pretty much any problem in the world...with unlimited resources, money and time. But we are in the real world here and the validation report found that the Gabba can not meet the Game's requirements without a rebuild.

But we apparently have unlimited money and resources to flatten the Gabba and rebuild it?

My argument never was 'The school proponent's arguments would break the laws of physics'.

My argument was 'The school proponents make unrealistic proposals and claim them as "easy" solutions'.

Problem is, you haven't proved that, and your arguments have relied on flawed assumptions that could have been corrected with a google search.

If the problem with the power was "easily" fixed, it would already be fixed.

Who are you quoting when you use those quotation marks? Because it certainly isn't me.

I can't say I've seen insides of the local power infrastructure, so I can't speak with certainty about it. What I can say is that your conclusion isn't always a good one to make, because it assumes those responsible for fixing things always have the time, opportunity and funding to be able to make a permanent fix. I've definitely seen components before that are subject to temporary fix after temporary fix because it doesn't fit with the organisation's schedule or funding arrangements to make the permanent fix. That doesn't mean it can't happen without complete destruction and rebuilding from scratch.

If the problem was just the substation, they would just fix the substation. If the problem was just a box inside the Gabba, they'd just fix the box inside the Gabba.

Are you trained in electrical engineering? Have you studied plans of the internal electrical setup and observed the condition that it's in? Because if not, and you haven't read a report from those who have, you're guessing.

Gabba boss says Olympic rebuild will solve electrical woes

A planned rebuild of Brisbane’s ageing Gabba stadium could help prevent a third repeat of an embarrassing blackout during a major sporting event.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

I don't see anything in there saying the issues cannot be fixed without a knock down and rebuild of the stadium. It only says it "could be addressed with an upgrade".

And even if it did say a knock down rebuild was absolutely necessary, nobody from Energex is quoted in this article at all to give an independent opinion on what is necessary. The onlyquotws are from the Gabba's general manager, who is presumably a public servant employed by Stadiums Queensland, and a government MP. A public servant speaking publicly can be subject to pressure to follow the government line if they want to stay in their role, and a government MP will always speak in favour of the government's plan.

Oh my god, obviously they would upgrade it from its current state to host the games. And obviously it would still be a colossal international embarrassment and would permanently do massive damage to our reputation.

Frankly, I couldn't give a toss what the international media has to say. Their views on the Olympic Games are entirely irrelevant to me and how I live my life. There are only two things here that are relevant to me: the Lions and their long term future, and the way government money is spent.

We all want a good stadium for the Lions, but that doesn't require a complete knock down rebuild. In fact, doing that harms us because we'll be on the road for four years with no good options on where to go. That's why I prefer a renovation of the Gabba, or a new stadium somewhere else like Victoria Park where it will be cheaper to build.

I'm not against money being spent on a stadium, just not this much money spent on a stadium with entry and exit issues (as in the ground itself, not the general area), which will still have those issues after spending billions, which involves killing off a badly needed school and moving it 2km away instead of keeping it nearby where the people who need it actually live.

AND we would also have to spend breathtaking amounts of money upgrading the public transport to even get there.

Why don't you define what "breathtaking amounts of money" are? Personally, I think multiple billions spent on a single stadium is also a breathtaking amount of money. At least with public transport there's a permanent use for it for the local community 365 days a year (and the traffic on Mains Rd in peak hour is frightful). Even as a Lions fan, I concede that if the government is going to spend big on one thing, public transport is more useful to people in Brisbane than a new stadium.

But as I've said before, I don't think QSAC is the best option. I just see it as a preferable option to a full knock down rebuild.

Even the Greens admit it would have to be a huge bus upgrade and an underground train line.

Where did they say this? I googled and the only thing I found was Jonathan Sriranganathan saying on reddit that an underground train is an example of transport that could be built. Since then he released a policy for trams along Kessels Rd rather than underground rail. I don't call that an admission.

AND we are pouring all the money for all those upgrades down the toilet because QSAC has been a proven white elephant for 60 years. Look at the photo, it's a billion miles from anywhere, and no one will ever use it again after the games.

Au contraire, Brisbane Roar are perfectly happy to move to QSAC.

Roar open to Brisbane stadium move

Brisbane Roar are considering a move back to Brisbane full-time, with no stadium deal currently in place for next season.

www.austadiums.com

Brisbane Roar Considers Permanent Move to QSAC After Pitch Woes at Ballymore

Brisbane Roar transitions to QSAC for training due to Ballymore pitch's poor condition, a possible long-term switch if improvement doesn't occur.

www.westislandblog.com

And once again, why do you have to use gross exaggerations? It isn't helping anyone. QSAC has enough space to build things around it and is near one of Brisbane's busiest road intersections.

Or are we happy for the Lions games, Test matches and BBL games to be permanently relocated to QSAC? Because that is the only way QSAC becomes a working stadium. Otherwise, we are spending billions on a venue for school sporting carnivals and athletics.

Once again, flawed assumption that could have been disproved with a simple google search.

AND we are still going to have to spend into the billions fixing the Gabba anyway. Because it's actually the stadium that gets used, and its problems haven't just magically disappeared.

Where's the quote that says that will cost billions?

...All of this just follows this pattern of these stupendously open-ended, unlimited-budget, "easy" solutions, but only when it suits keeping the school open.

Not so long back, you complained that people don't want to "have a mature, nuanced, fact-based, in-good-faith discussion about the practicalities of a very complex multilayered issue. It's deciding at the start that you know the answer and trying to push your answer onto everyone else."

How is the repeated use of silly exaggerations and straw man arguments not doing the exact same thing you previously complained about?

I'll address the rest in another comment.

 

[Elixuh]

Weevil v Johnny Bananas is like watching Keating v Downer. People can make up their minds as to who is who

 

[Grasshopper17]

Weevil v Johnny Bananas is like watching Keating v Downer. People can make up their minds as to who is who

One thing is for sure... Whoever is being done is being done slowly... Very slowly

 

[M Malice]

The to and froing about East Brisbane State School is fatuous, the school is closing and moving Olympics or no Olympics, the process is well underway.

 

[M Malice]

Weevil v Johnny Bananas is like watching Keating v Downer. People can make up their minds as to who is who

 

[Viceregal]

 

[Andyz]

That's how it works. If demographic changes make schools too large or too small for their catchments they replace or merge them with schools that better meet the new demands. 100-plus year-old schools have closed for these reasons.

https://education.qld.gov.au/parents/school-information/Documents/change-register.xls

We can't just magically make the current school a vertical school because half of the buildings are heritage-listed. And we can't demolish and reconstruct the ones that aren’t heritage-listed and use them as classrooms at the same time.

Build times for these sorts of site-restricted projects are several years. We can't build a school and be a school at the same time, on a dot of land the size of a postage stamp.

The community engagement found that "most community members accept that the school will move" and the school P&C proposed closing the current school and relocating.

School axed for Gabba upgrade wants new building in prime spot

The state government examined whether a replacement school could be built above Woolloongabba’s Cross River Rail station.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

So there is no argument that the school community has some fundamental religious, commitment to the current location no matter what.



Oh, I see where you are going. Yes, technically we could fix pretty much any problem in the world...with unlimited resources, money and time. But we are in the real world here and the validation report found that the Gabba can not meet the Game's requirements without a rebuild.

My argument never was 'The school proponent's arguments would break the laws of physics'.

My argument was 'The school proponents make unrealistic proposals and claim them as "easy" solutions'.

If the problem with the power was "easily" fixed, it would already be fixed. If the problem was just the substation, they would just fix the substation. If the problem was just a box inside the Gabba, they'd just fix the box inside the Gabba.

You are right that the substations do need upgrades too, but the fundamental issues are not with the substations, they are deep within the Gabba.

Gabba boss says Olympic rebuild will solve electrical woes

A planned rebuild of Brisbane’s ageing Gabba stadium could help prevent a third repeat of an embarrassing blackout during a major sporting event.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

Oh my god, obviously they would upgrade it from its current state to host the games. And obviously it would still be a colossal international embarrassment and would permanently do massive damage to our reputation.

Rio

Tokyo



Paris



LA



Brisbane



Lovely view of the cemetery in the background there...

Oh look here is the international media arriving in Brisbane now:



We can try to polish that turd as hard as we like, but it's obviously nowhere near the same league. It's going to look like a toilet block in comparison.

As a point of reference, it cost the LA stadium nearly half a billion dollars just to install new seats, some corporate boxes, Wi-Fi and handrails. The amount of money required to even try to fake QSAC being an international-class venue would be phenomenal.

AND we would also have to spend breathtaking amounts of money upgrading the public transport to even get there. Even the Greens admit it would have to be a huge bus upgrade and an underground train line.

AND we are pouring all the money for all those upgrades down the toilet because QSAC has been a proven white elephant for 60 years. Look at the photo, it's a billion miles from anywhere, and no one will ever use it again after the games.

Or are we happy for the Lions games, Test matches and BBL games to be permanently relocated to QSAC? Because that is the only way QSAC becomes a working stadium. Otherwise, we are spending billions on a venue for school sporting carnivals and athletics.

AND we are still going to have to spend into the billions fixing the Gabba anyway. Because it's actually the stadium that gets used, and its problems haven't just magically disappeared.

...All of this just follows this pattern of these stupendously open-ended, unlimited-budget, "easy" solutions, but only when it suits keeping the school open.

If it involves keeping the school open, trivial things like money seem to be of zero consequence, it doesn't seem to matter how large the cost or how little the returns. But if it's a solution that involves the school closing then all of a sudden it's "Goodness gracious, we are very concerned about spending that sort of money".

Shouldn't we be applying the same standards to both sides of the argument?

Ultimately if it's "easy" to have the games at QSAC, isn't it easy for a handful of kids to go to a school that is a little bit further away? Couldn't the kids just walk to the old school site like they used to and then add a seven-minute bus ride to the new school?

There is no doubt whatsoever that the Gabba rebuild is really hard. But if I look at all the other options with the same glasses on, they look just as hard but more expensive.



I'm following the expert advice, if someone is disagreeing with that, they'll need to produce the evidence.


I agree, it would be great if they could do it at Victoria Park, it would seem to solve so many problems. But they said they looked at all the other inner city options and they were more expensive than a Gabba rebuild.

But hey, if Quirk's panel come back saying they have found a way to make things work at VP or somewhere else in the inner city then great. If they can find a solution that balances all the issues and comes up with a reasonable, sensible compromise then let's go.

Please run for premier!!

 

[Nunez]

Please run for premier!!

Don't give weevil any ideas.

 

[Section 5]

The cynicism in me says thats poppycock Section. (no disrespect) It may have been that way back in the 70's, 80'S & 90's but in this modern age all decisions are based on either what gets them votes in the next election or which is the right palm to grease. If fixing the housing crisis gets them re-elected, it will have $ allocated to it. Albo lost a huge amount of support with his Voice Campaign (costing over $400 Million) while we have ambulance ramping all over the country. He wont make that same mistake again I believe.
Worthy causes may not generate revenue but they do sometimes generate votes which in todays Pollies eyes is much more important.

P.S. Not all Olympics generate revenue, in fact, plenty have generated significant debt as well. The 1984 LA summer Olympics were the last one to return a profit....I guess the prize we get is improved/modern infrastructure but is that specific infrastructure what we desperately need or are there other infrastructures needed more urgently?

Bolded: I agree that if any party comes out during an election and says an extra $3 or 4 billion ($ your post 2779) will be allocated to housing in the next few budgets that party could do it if elected or as happens break a promise.

That extra $3 to 4 billion will form part of their next budget so the media or opposing party will be saying where is this money coming from.
Will taxes increase? if not where will the cuts come from? Public Services, Police, Hospitals.
All states are trying to reduce debt and going down that sort of spending without extra taxes or cuts won't help.

Bolded: Every single Olympics generates revenue. I am sure you meant to say "a profit" not revenue.
The IOC realized many years ago that staging the Olympics came with risks, so they changed things drastically over the past 12 years.
They realized a lot of cities/states got themselves into debt and that had to change.
First to come were longer lead-in times to prepare helping both budget and construction wise.
Both Paris and LA were told back in 2017 with Tokyo being approved in 2013.

The IOC for the first time changed things dramatically for the Brisbane games.
The biggest change being 85% of venues be already existing and in use now.
These changes almost guarantee a break-even/profit should be made barring complete incompetence (Athens), viral outbreak like covid (Tokyo), another financial crisis, terrorists attacks, or WW3.

Summer games since 2000
Regarding returning a profit most Australians would have considered the Sydney games a success and not have thought it made a loss ($1.5b).
London generally considered a break-even games.
Beijing a modest $146 million loss.
Rio loss $2 billion
Tokyo $7 billion loss (costs $13 billion). Hard when no one can visit the country or purchase tickets.
Athens 2004 being the worst as it costs a huge $15 billion by the start of the games and recorded a loss of $14.5 billion.
It's like they did not collect any ticket sales or any revenue from broadcast rights. The Greek financial crisis was during this time maybe their currency collapsed? Or the games spending helped put them into the Greek financial crisis.

 

[Dalions]

Bolded: I agree that if any party comes out during an election and says an extra $3 or 4 billion ($ your post 2779) will be allocated to housing in the next few budgets that party could do it if elected or as happens break a promise.

That extra $3 to 4 billion will form part of their next budget so the media or opposing party will be saying where is this money coming from.
Will taxes increase? if not where will the cuts come from? Public Services, Police, Hospitals.
All states are trying to reduce debt and going down that sort of spending without extra taxes or cuts won't help.

Bolded: Every single Olympics generates revenue. I am sure you meant to say "a profit" not revenue.
The IOC realized many years ago that staging the Olympics came with risks, so they changed things drastically over the past 12 years.
They realized a lot of cities/states got themselves into debt and that had to change.
First to come were longer lead-in times to prepare helping both budget and construction wise.
Both Paris and LA were told back in 2017 with Tokyo being approved in 2013.

The IOC for the first time changed things dramatically for the Brisbane games.
The biggest change being 85% of venues be already existing and in use now.
These changes almost guarantee a break-even/profit should be made barring complete incompetence (Athens), viral outbreak like covid (Tokyo), another financial crisis, terrorists attacks, or WW3.

Summer games since 2000
Regarding returning a profit most Australians would have considered the Sydney games a success and not have thought it made a loss ($1.5b).
London generally considered a break-even games.
Beijing a modest $146 million loss.
Rio loss $2 billion
Tokyo $7 billion loss (costs $13 billion). Hard when no one can visit the country or purchase tickets.
Athens 2004 being the worst as it costs a huge $15 billion by the start of the games and recorded a loss of $14.5 billion.
It's like they did not collect any ticket sales or any revenue from broadcast rights. The Greek financial crisis was during this time maybe their currency collapsed? Or the games spending helped put them into the Greek financial crisis.

Do these figures take into account the boost to tourism and hospitality before during and after the Games?

 

[Schache_off]

Most people would agree that spending over $3 billion (probably closer to 4 ) on a stadium while we have a housing crisis and significant problems with our hospitals would be self indulgent and morally wrong right now.
A re-fit (not using the word facelift any more) and/or renovation incorporating the new cross-river rail project & increased seating capacity is much more appropriate in my opinion and a fraction of the cost of a re-build.

There is a housing crisis but you can look back decades and find similar stories about it. It's hard to actually know if this is much worse than it's ever been or it's the news that gets everyone fired up so the story continues.

The money would be better spent on a hospital argument doesn't really stack up if you're aware of what Qld health is doing over the next 4-6 years. Redlands, Logan, PAH, QEII, Royal (Old cancer centre) Prince Charles, Caboolture and Ipswich all have major expansions happening or have already happened. It is around $10 billion in all of QLD for hospitals so while it may not address all problems with public health, there is something that is being done.