News Gabba Upgrade & Olympics News

[western royboy]

I overheard some of Crash and Whately this morning. Crash’s observations were Labor will get turfed out in State Election and the GABBA upgrade is election poison for both major parties. I’m a long way away and I find Crash a twit but that was his view.

 

[Andyz]

But we apparently have unlimited money and resources to flatten the Gabba and rebuild it?

Aside from the fact the Gabba is becoming insignificant & already struggling to hold onto test cricket, we have to stage a world class event here & receive nearly 3b from the IOC to host it. It would be utterly embarrassing to pocket this money & present school athletics facilities to international athletes.

Frankly, I couldn't give a toss what the international media has to say. Their views on the Olympic Games are entirely irrelevant to me and how I live my life. There are only two things here that are relevant to me: the Lions and their long term future, and the way government money is spent.

That is the small picture. The international community spend billions in this country & keep our economy going. Every $ a tourist spends here generates jobs & helps more businesses survive which pay taxes that help us all.

And if the Lions are any consideration then they need a ground that will allow them to grow. They can not guarantee home finals tickets to more than 25% or so of their members now….tell me that doesn’t limit their potential? Not to mention gate receipts for big games being capped at 36,000 what an opportunity cost. Meanwhile Melbourne based clubs can collect on 100,000 spectators & put this money into training, specialists, gym equipment, coaches etc etc.
Then Imagine the economy boost in Melbourne after 3 x 100,000 Swift concerts….whilst we have…..NIL! Because an international artist like her will not bother with the tiny old Gabba.

We all want a good stadium for the Lions, but that doesn't require a complete knock down rebuild. In fact, doing that harms us because we'll be on the road for four years with no good options on where to go. That's why I prefer a renovation of the Gabba, or a new stadium somewhere else like Victoria Park where it will be cheaper to build.

I'm not against money being spent on a stadium, just not this much money spent on a stadium with entry and exit issues (as in the ground itself, not the general area), which will still have those issues after spending billions, which involves killing off a badly needed school and moving it 2km away instead of keeping it nearby where the people who need it actually live.


Why don't you define what "breathtaking amounts of money" are? Personally, I think multiple billions spent on a single stadium is also a breathtaking amount of money. At least with public transport there's a permanent use for it for the local community 365 days a year (and the traffic on Mains Rd in peak hour is frightful). Even as a Lions fan, I concede that if the government is going to spend big on one thing, public transport is more useful to people in Brisbane than a new stadium.

But as I've said before, I don't think QSAC is the best option. I just see it as a preferable option to a full knock down rebuild.

Badly needed school? Isn’t it surrounded by apartments opposite a commercial precinct? If there’s a school 1.5k away better to put all that funding into its expansion especially since Coorparoo offers an outdoors.

Qsac what a laugh, Lions would probably move back to Melbourne before moving there And if Qsac is renovated just for Olympics & then fails to be used thereafter that is the real definition of waste, a total white elephant. Coates just doesn’t understand the concept of smart investment.
Cheap = costs more in the long run.
Smart = income generating investments that have long term economic benefits for the city, state & country (and mighty lions!)

But is anyone in there able to work that out

 

[Mighty Lions]

There is a housing crisis but you can look back decades and find similar stories about it. It's hard to actually know if this is much worse than it's ever been or it's the news that gets everyone fired up so the story continues.

The money would be better spent on a hospital argument doesn't really stack up if you're aware of what Qld health is doing over the next 4-6 years. Redlands, Logan, PAH, QEII, Royal (Old cancer centre) Prince Charles, Caboolture and Ipswich all have major expansions happening or have already happened. It is around $10 billion in all of QLD for hospitals so while it may not address all problems with public health, there is something that is being done.

Tomato/Tomaato mate. Name anything that this crazy amount of $ could be spent on.....its not just The Gabba rebuild cost, it's everything to do with hosting the games.
I'm not against hosting the games but I am not as excited about it as I used to be along with plenty of others. The days of Keiren Perkins winning the 1500, Thorpie winning everything else & Cathy Freeman, Carl Lewis mania is gone for me. It's lost a lot of it's mojo.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I overheard some of Crash and Whately this morning. Crash’s observations were Labor will get turfed out in State Election and the GABBA upgrade is election poison for both major parties. I’m a long way away and I find Crash a twit but that was his view.

Crash & Whately are bare faced liars as are most of the media.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Bolded: I agree that if any party comes out during an election and says an extra $3 or 4 billion ($ your post 2779) will be allocated to housing in the next few budgets that party could do it if elected or as happens break a promise.

That extra $3 to 4 billion will form part of their next budget so the media or opposing party will be saying where is this money coming from.
Will taxes increase? if not where will the cuts come from? Public Services, Police, Hospitals.
All states are trying to reduce debt and going down that sort of spending without extra taxes or cuts won't help.

Bolded: Every single Olympics generates revenue. I am sure you meant to say "a profit" not revenue.
The IOC realized many years ago that staging the Olympics came with risks, so they changed things drastically over the past 12 years.
They realized a lot of cities/states got themselves into debt and that had to change.
First to come were longer lead-in times to prepare helping both budget and construction wise.
Both Paris and LA were told back in 2017 with Tokyo being approved in 2013.

The IOC for the first time changed things dramatically for the Brisbane games.
The biggest change being 85% of venues be already existing and in use now.
These changes almost guarantee a break-even/profit should be made barring complete incompetence (Athens), viral outbreak like covid (Tokyo), another financial crisis, terrorists attacks, or WW3.

Summer games since 2000
Regarding returning a profit most Australians would have considered the Sydney games a success and not have thought it made a loss ($1.5b).
London generally considered a break-even games.
Beijing a modest $146 million loss.
Rio loss $2 billion
Tokyo $7 billion loss (costs $13 billion). Hard when no one can visit the country or purchase tickets.
Athens 2004 being the worst as it costs a huge $15 billion by the start of the games and recorded a loss of $14.5 billion.
It's like they did not collect any ticket sales or any revenue from broadcast rights. The Greek financial crisis was during this time maybe their currency collapsed? Or the games spending helped put them into the Greek financial crisis.

Agree with 90% of that, but a small clarification on the Greek financial crisis. It came to a head in the early 2010s as a knock on effect of the Global Financial Crisis, but had probably been building up to that for the last 40 years, in the main through borrowing exorbitant sums of money from other European nations they could never pay back.

As succinctly described by Clarke and Dawe

 

[Section 5]

Do these figures take into account the boost to tourism and hospitality before during and after the Games?

No

 

[Section 5]

Agree with 90% of that, but a small clarification on the Greek financial crisis. It came to a head in the early 2010s as a knock on effect of the Global Financial Crisis, but had probably been building up to that for the last 40 years, in the main through borrowing exorbitant sums of money from other European nations they could never pay back.

As succinctly described by Clarke and Dawe

That's fine i just took that take from the article and did not delve into the timeframe etc.

 

[Mighty Lions]

No

They should. The boost to condoms are always significant.

 

[wantok]

Anyone who doesn't think there is a housing crisis just needs to go to any park in Brisbane and count the tents . This is disgraceful in a successful society. A requirement of good governance is to provide this basic human requirement. That and safety and security needs are required as a solid base. You've had all heard of Mazlos Hierarchy. It's been around about 60 years.
This is why the public have turned off the Olympics spend. All the Public Service style reports and analysis provided in copious amounts in the previously constructed arguments here are respectfully just wasted words and energy.
My previous stated position on this Gabba fiasco has been to minimise damage to the Lions in this back of a coaster balls up. I have moved on from that as it now seems the rebuild is the electoral poison that was predicted many moons ago.
I hope the Gabba is given a refit but I'm all in for a Vic Park new build or a how about a genuine Ekka new build for a 50k Stadium.
Before all the negatives are raised take the time to think creatively. Machinery Hill would go. Gregory Terrace would be rerouted further East. The heritage listed stands would be incorporated. I'm sure we can get some of those creative types to create a wonderful concept picture.


On SM-A525F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[briztoon]

The cynicism in me says thats poppycock Section. (no disrespect) It may have been that way back in the 70's, 80'S & 90's but in this modern age all decisions are based on either what gets them votes in the next election or which is the right palm to grease. If fixing the housing crisis gets them re-elected, it will have $ allocated to it. Albo lost a huge amount of support with his Voice Campaign (costing over $400 Million) while we have ambulance ramping all over the country. He wont make that same mistake again I believe.
Worthy causes may not generate revenue but they do sometimes generate votes which in todays Pollies eyes is much more important.

P.S. Not all Olympics generate revenue, in fact, plenty have generated significant debt as well. The 1984 LA summer Olympics were the last one to return a profit....I guess the prize we get is improved/modern infrastructure but is that specific infrastructure what we desperately need or are there other infrastructures needed more urgently?

Either you are not understanding, or refusing to acknowledge the point multiple posters have made to you in regards to where the funding for the Olympics is coming from.

And that point is, the funding for the Olympics is not coming out the Government revenue pot, that pays for our hospitals, government housing, etc.

So if the governments save any money by cheapiing out on the Olympics, the money “saved” can’t be redirected to worthy causes.

Ambulance ramping can be eliminated by building more hospitals, hiring more overseas doctors and nurses (we don’t produce enough of our own btw), but that comes at a cost, higher taxes (Australia is one of the lowest taxed western countries btw), and pulling all funding from community and professional sports and athletes. As well as the Arts, and any non essential services.


Not sure why it’s the Governments job to make housing more affordable.

Can’t afford house, buy a town house or apartment.

Australian cities are unsustainable because we’re so opposed to decentralising our cities, and our population growth keeps going out, rather than up.

 

[M Malice]

Reading this thread it seems that everyone is of the opinion that Brisbane is or will be soon in need of a new Oval stadium or at the absolute least a massive/significant upgrade of the Gabba which if the job is to be done properly probably would cost in the range of a Billion dollars.

IIRC the IOC are putting in a Billion dollars towards the Olympics, I wonder if that was promised on the proviso that we built a new main stadium.

 

[Dalions]

IIRC the IOC are putting in a Billion dollars towards the Olympics, I wonder if that was promised on the proviso that we built a new main stadium.

I thought I had heard that the IOC were putting in $2billion.
Could well be wrong though.

 

[briztoon]

There is a housing crisis but you can look back decades and find similar stories about it. It's hard to actually know if this is much worse than it's ever been or it's the news that gets everyone fired up so the story continues.

The money would be better spent on a hospital argument doesn't really stack up if you're aware of what Qld health is doing over the next 4-6 years. Redlands, Logan, PAH, QEII, Royal (Old cancer centre) Prince Charles, Caboolture and Ipswich all have major expansions happening or have already happened. It is around $10 billion in all of QLD for hospitals so while it may not address all problems with public health, there is something that is being done.

I believe there’s a pretty easy way to work this out.

What was the average income at a specific period of time, and what was the average house price at the same time. Divide the average house price by the average income.

Another example, in 1982 my parents bought a block of land in Mansfield for less than my dad’s yearly income, as a master plumber working for the BCC.

Today, the same block of land is worth close to $1m, let’s say $900k. Best I can find from a google search, is that a city council plumber earns between $90k to $100k.

So in the space of 40 years, we’ve gone from a block of land in a good suburb being less than a tradies yearly income, to the same block of land being worth 9 to 10 times the same tradies income.

A basic rule of thumb when borrowing money from the bank, banks typically will only lend you 6 times your gross income at a maximum. And that’s if you have a very good deposit behind you.

Most young working couples would be flat out buying a house in a decent suburb these days, in the current market.

Same street as my parents house.

 

[briztoon]

Anyone who doesn't think there is a housing crisis just needs to go to any park in Brisbane and count the tents . This is disgraceful in a successful society. A requirement of good governance is to provide this basic human requirement. That and safety and security needs are required as a solid base. You've had all heard of Mazlos Hierarchy. It's been around about 60 years.
This is why the public have turned off the Olympics spend. All the Public Service style reports and analysis provided in copious amounts in the previously constructed arguments here are respectfully just wasted words and energy.
My previous stated position on this Gabba fiasco has been to minimise damage to the Lions in this back of a coaster balls up. I have moved on from that as it now seems the rebuild is the electoral poison that was predicted many moons ago.
I hope the Gabba is given a refit but I'm all in for a Vic Park new build or a how about a genuine Ekka new build for a 50k Stadium.
Before all the negatives are raised take the time to think creatively. Machinery Hill would go. Gregory Terrace would be rerouted further East. The heritage listed stands would be incorporated. I'm sure we can get some of those creative types to create a wonderful concept picture.


On SM-A525F using BigFooty.com mobile app

And you believe either of those options will be cheaper than a Gabba rebuild?

 

[Section 5]

Reading this thread it seems that everyone is of the opinion that Brisbane is or will be soon in need of a new Oval stadium or at the absolute least a massive/significant upgrade of the Gabba which if the job is to be done properly probably would cost in the range of a Billion dollars.

IIRC the IOC are putting in a Billion dollars towards the Olympics, I wonder if that was promised on the proviso that we built a new main stadium.

I thought I had heard that the IOC were putting in $2billion.
Could well be wrong though.

It is a guaranteed $2.7 billion Australian dollars when i last checked but the amount mentioned is in American dollars.
So, it could fluctuate a far bit over time.
Depending how successful the games are it could be more.
No proviso on building a new stadium.
Mostly that any new venues will have a lasting legacy.

 

[M Malice]

It is a guaranteed $2.7 billion Australian dollars when i last checked but the amount mentioned is in American dollars.
So, it could fluctuate a far bit over time.
Depending how successful the games are it could be more.

The selling of Brisbane hosting the Olympics has been atrocious by the powers that be, the people I have spoken to in the off line world have no idea that the IOC were putting in that much money.

That money is gone for good if we don't host the Olympics, it doesn't get diverted to Health etc. We simply must take advantage of this once in a generation opportunity to get a new state of the art stadium.

 

[Dalions]

It is a guaranteed $2.7 billion Australian dollars when i last checked but the amount mentioned is in American dollars.
So, it could fluctuate a far bit over time.
Depending how successful the games are it could be more.
No proviso on building a new stadium.
Mostly that any new venues will have a lasting legacy.

Interesting that it is the same figure as the re-build of the Gabba.

 

[wantok]

And you believe either of those options will be cheaper than a Gabba rebuild?

Yes

On SM-A525F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Dalions]

The selling of Brisbane hosting the Olympics has been atrocious by the powers that be, the people I have spoken to in the off line world have no idea that the IOC were putting in that much money.

That money is gone for good if we don't host the Olympics, it doesn't get diverted to Health etc. We simply must take advantage of this once in a generation opportunity to get a new state of the art stadium.

Would be absolute madness not to.

Federal Government are stumping up the $2bil for the Roma St pool and 50% of the rest of the facilities costs.

IOC are basically paying for the Stadium so it would be crazy not to take advantage of it.
Typically the stadiums are the centre piece of an Olympic Games.

 

[Grasshopper17]

It is a guaranteed $2.7 billion Australian dollars when i last checked but the amount mentioned is in American dollars.
So, it could fluctuate a far bit over time.
Depending how successful the games are it could be more.
No proviso on building a new stadium.
Mostly that any new venues will have a lasting legacy.

Current exchange rate $0.65 so on that basis that $2.7b is now more than $3bn.

We're gonna have enough left over for a massive p155 up when the Gabba's finished!

 

[Dalions]

Current exchange rate $0.65 so on that basis that $2.7b is now more than $3bn.

We're gonna have enough left over for a massive p155 up when the Gabba's finished!

300k wouldn’t get too far

 

[Grasshopper17]

300k wouldn’t get too far

That's $300 million!

 

[Dalions]

That's $300 million!

I’ve already started drinking

 

[Dalions]

That's $300 million!

Johnny Bananas will be happy when they spend that $300mil on building a new 10 story Vertical School on the 800m2 of land that is left of the old School site.

 

[Section 5]

Current exchange rate $0.65 so on that basis that $2.7b is now more than $3bn.

We're gonna have enough left over for a massive p155 up when the Gabba's finished!

No, from memory it was $1.6 billion American which at the time converted to that $2.7 billion
Looking at the conversation rate now it is less being $2.5 billion Australian.