Review Game days suck - Carlton prevail

[Footy Smarts]

I agree but thats what mannagh is doing this year.

No he isn't. Mannagh this year hasn't been remotely close to Dempsey last year. You could watch Dempsey for 10 minutes and he'd make it clear he was the most talented player out there. Mannagh this year has looked a good player at the level but not a stand out.

 

[Play it Sam]

I liked Atkins, am also a fan of Zach Guthrie and what he's shown - I think at times people can confuse who's the best leader with who's the best player, but they don't necessarily overlap


In 2022, the decision we made to reduce the leadership group down to Captain Selwood with support of Dangerfield & Stewart as VCs worked with the squad we had at the time

But with a look at our current squad & a look to the future, I wouldn't have minded seeing one or two younger players added to the leadership group, if not last year then at least this season and think it's a must for next season

We need to look ahead at who our next captain is after Dangerfield, as I'm not sure that Stewart really should be seen as next cab off the rank for the captaincy. He hasn't had the best of times lately, especially with opposition teams starting to put extra time into him, add in that the team hasn't been going too well on the field & this during his run as acting captain - it's not necessarily that the captaincy is an added burden, but if having him step back a bit from that can help him focus a bit more on himself & his own return to form, then surely it's something that should be considered, even by Tom himself


IF Dangerfield does play on next season, we really need to use it as an opportunity to nurture the next gen of leaders & not just role out the same pairing again

I get what you're saying, look around for some fresh inspiration but with the proviso that those players are certain to stay in the team, one of first ten picked so to speak. Holmes, Dempsey, Miers, Kolo, Close, Atkins come to mind. Maybe Bruhn. The VFL boys are going to be trialed when they get their run, so they're out, along with the olds we lose this year.

I've seen Selwood behind play controlling the troops, an uncanny knack through extensive experience of knowing which side the opposition are going to use. We really miss that sort of Captain's leadership. Nevertheless, Sel did have his down times. With patience, I think Stewart has it in him in the absence of anyone else qualified.

 

[D BRIDGE]

The obsession with Mannagh is over the top. He had 27 and 6 in the VFL grand final last year, exceptional no doubt. He also had 13 touches and 1.0 in the first winning final, and 19 touches and 1.2 in the second final.

If you think Miers, Close, Stengle or Ollie H - or Dempsey, who is 4 years his junior and looks like becoming a genuine gun - would have been that mediocre/invisible in two consecutive winning finals - in the seconds - you’re dreaming. I would like to see Mannagh get some games but he’s so far from being the missing link or the next Stewart/Podsiadly it’s not funny.

The point was made that Dempsey was going better last year in the VFL than the guys pushing for selection this year.

I agreed with that point.

I then made a point that as good as Dempsey was in the VFL last year... Mannagh had an even better year in the VFL.

Just stating facts.

 

[Play it Sam]

No he isn't. Mannagh this year hasn't been remotely close to Dempsey last year. You could watch Dempsey for 10 minutes and he'd make it clear he was the most talented player out there. Mannagh this year has looked a good player at the level but not a stand out.

I don't know how much VFL you watch, but Mannagh is a stand out, and still working on his game. He hasn't had the break Dempsey got, they persevered with him. It's promised, the way he's going, and he can't show you anything from emergency status..

 

[D BRIDGE]

No he isn't. Mannagh this year hasn't been remotely close to Dempsey last year. You could watch Dempsey for 10 minutes and he'd make it clear he was the most talented player out there. Mannagh this year has looked a good player at the level but not a stand out.

Mannagh last year had a much bigger year than Dempsey in the VFL.

This year... well poor Mannagh has been sentenced to not step foot outside our f50 or his head will explode.

Kinda like the convicts in The Running Man.

Hopefully soon he will here those words "perimeter deactivated".

Still kicking nearly 3 a week... but was going at 25 touches and 2 goals a game last year when playing further up the ground.

We have pulled a Montreal Screwjob on him.

Poor guy woulda made 100k more playing for the next team that was gonna draft him.

 

[Footy Smarts]

I don't know how much VFL you watch, but Mannagh is a stand out, and still working on his game. He hasn't had the break Dempsey got, they persevered with him. It's promised, the way he's going, and he can't show you anything from emergency status..

Dempsey wasn't a stand out for our VFL team last year. He was the stand out by a country mile in a struggling team. Mannagh has been good but no better than 3-4 others and doesn't have the moments of utter class that Dempsey had.

And Dempsey wasn't persevered with last year. He didn't play a full game without being sub or subbed until the last round.

I'm a bit surprised Mannagh hasn't been given more games. But at the same time I don't think he's stood out at VFL level any more than Humphries, Knevitt, Hardie, Clohesy, etc.

 

[Play it Sam]

Mannagh last year had a much bigger year than Dempsey in the VFL.

This year... well poor Mannagh has been sentenced to not step foot outside our f50 or his head will explode.

Kinda like the convicts in The Running Man.

Hopefully soon he will here those words "perimeter deactivated".

Still kicking nearly 3 a week... but was going at 25 touches and 2 goals a game last year when playing further up the ground.

We have pulled a Montreal Screwjob on him.

Poor guy woulda made 100k more playing for the next team that was gonna draft him.

Funny, you made me laugh.
But...patience. He isn't going anywhere else just yet,
We can be confusing sometimes, but aren't totally mad.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Funny, you made me laugh.
But...patience. He isn't going anywhere else just yet,
We can be confusing sometimes, but aren't totally mad.

He's not going anywhere. All of these names are likely to be off the list in a few months.

• Hawkins
• Touhy
• Duncan
• Bews
• Rohan
• Parfitt
• Foster
• Hardie
• Murdoch
• Willis (?)
• Stengle (?)
• Jeka (?)

Even if we buy the talk that Smith & Oliver are coming, that's two guys.

It's two guys coming in, likely with a bunch of kids as the other reinforcements to compensate for all that experience and depth.

If we don't go for Oliver & Smith, then it's just going to be a bunch of kids.

Even if the MC hated Mannagh - which they don't - he's going to be in the best 25 just by virtue of what's going off the list.

In particular if Stengle goes, there's 23 games right there with his name on them.

I just can't see where he'd be better off when you take all of that into consideration.

 

[Play it Sam]

I'm a bit surprised Mannagh hasn't been given more games. But at the same time I don't think he's stood out at VFL level any more than Humphries, Knevitt, Hardie, Clohesy, etc.

Look, there's a future for all of them. But of those 3-4 you speak of, the MC has seen fit to elevate only Mannagh (twice) and Humphries as emergencies. For what it's worth, but you could say encouragement/communication.
The comparison to other players is difficult, too many factors.

 

[PzBlinky]

Without Stengle we would have dropped a few of those games early in the year and some of our close losses would not have been close. He has been our only reliable forward. Hard to compare him with Holmes. Both have been very good. Stengle wins in pure skill and for his ability to turn half chances into goals, Holmes wins in athleticism and ability to break lines. Goals are gold so I would always choose a good forward over a midfielder or backman.

Agree. The obvious focus is on fixing the midfield but without Stengle, Hawkins on the cusp of retiring, and Neale still very raw, we risk becoming a "mini-Melbourne" - having a solid group of mids delivering to a forward line without the talent to kick a winning score.

EDIT: typo

 

[juzcat]

Which I agree with you. They haven't recruit him to play in 3 years time, they have recruit him to play now.. And they haven't yet done that for him. Yes I'd say 80% on here thinks Mannagh should be playing and I'm one of them. But if they don't play him rite now we scratch our heads in asking why recruit Mannagh.

And honestly if I was Mannagh at season's end I'd be asking the coaches where do I fit in your plans going forward? And if they don't know I'd be asking for a trade, as there would be plenty of clubs that are contending would want him. And we would be lucky to get his value back

Will be smashed for this but Mannagh over Close?

Sent from my SM-S928B using Tapatalk

 

[Gavin Excell]

Stanley not looking so bad now is he.

Always always play a ruck in the first ruck role.

Yes he is actually
Stanley isn't the future

 

[JackFlash]

Essendon are not that good

I know, but we are the new Roos.

 

[joe444]

Which I agree with you. They haven't recruit him to play in 3 years time, they have recruit him to play now.. And they haven't yet done that for him. Yes I'd say 80% on here thinks Mannagh should be playing and I'm one of them. But if they don't play him rite now we scratch our heads in asking why recruit Mannagh.

Amen, and the same goes for Hardie.

Even if we recruited them with the intent of using them as insurance when the midfield looks thin, what precisely do they think is happening now?

Even if we recruited them as insurance but on the caveat that they had to be playing well in the VFL, what precisely do they think is happening now?

Or if the mindset is that we should preference youth first, what more do they want Clohesy to do?

Hardie v Giants in the game before the bye: 37 possessions, 10 marks, not selected again.

It's not making sense.

 

[cats_09]

I know, but we are the new Roos.

I know you so want that to be true as you clearly get more joy from Geelong losing than winning

But it ain't even close to accurate

 

[small 4wards]

Agree. The obvious focus is on fixing the midfield but without Stengle, Hawkins on the cusp of retiring, and Neale still very raw, we risk becoming a "mini-Melbourne" - having a solid group of mids delivering to a forward line without the talent to kick a winning score.

EDIT: typo

Dempsey, Cameron, Miers
O. Henry, Neale, Close

Bruhn and Holmes have both showed potential as goal scorers and while they're a way off, having midfielders as a goal scoring threat helps create space in the forward line. Post Cameron it's a bit worrying but I'd say that's not until ~2027 at least by which hopefully Neale, Dempsey etc have stabilised themselves at an afl level

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I know, but we are the new Roos.

We've won as many games this year as North has wom cumulatively since this time in 2021. Our two recent losses were against the two best in the league.

Maybe calm down

 

[cats_09]

Amen, and the same goes for Hardie.

Even if we recruited them with the intent of using them as insurance when the midfield looks thin, what precisely do they think is happening now?

Even if we recruited them as insurance but on the caveat that they had to be playing well in the VFL, what precisely do they think is happening now?

Or if the mindset is that we should preference youth first, what more do they want Clohesy to do?

Hardie v Giants in the game before the bye: 37 possessions, 10 marks, not selected again.

It's not making sense.

Maybe he's not actually that impactful - stats tell part of the story, not the full story and having watched that VFL game, I wasn't that surprised he wasn't selected the next week

He's a nice VFL player, but there's definitely others I would select ahead of him

 

[BORIS332]

These guys are going fairly well but Dempsey absolutely took the piss last year in the VFL and looked our best player by a mile. They're not remotely comparable.

"Not remotely comparable" The below looks pretty comparable to me...

 

[Catsace]

I disagree. He was given the opportunity early and squandered it. If he’d played the team first game he’d possibly still be in the side. He didn’t so has been sent to Siberia for a while. That’s good coaching.


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Jimmy Bartlel had a bit of that treatment for some of the early part of the 2004 season, was in the ressies for several weeks although hopefully Mannagh if he gets a gig now can be even 33% as good as Jimmy turned out to be.

 

[JackFlash]

I know you so want that to be true as you clearly get more joy from Geelong losing than winning

But it ain't even close to accurate

It is very accurate, the Roos are actually better. I get no joy from Geelong losing, but they have failed in preparing for the future. Most Geelong fans are delusional anyway and are expecting it all to fit into place and all will be well again, it won't. Not this time.

 

[Pollywaffle]

Does he have the tools to be a long term ruckman?
I note his brother has been a spare parts sort of player until this season where his ruck work has gone up a level

How often do we see that over the journey. A promising player spins his wheels for a season or two then suddenly finds another gear. Maturity? Confidence? Being played in the wrong position/way?

 

[cats_09]

It is very accurate, the Roos are actually better. I get no joy from Geelong losing, but they have failed in preparing for the future. Most Geelong fans are delusional anyway and are expecting it all to fit into place and all will be well again, it won't. Not this time.

If you want to be taken seriously, try actually showing up & posting something joyful when we're winning - not just waiting for a loss to stick the boot in

 

[PzBlinky]

Dempsey, Cameron, Miers
O. Henry, Neale, Close

Bruhn and Holmes have both showed potential as goal scorers and while they're a way off, having midfielders as a goal scoring threat helps create space in the forward line. Post Cameron it's a bit worrying but I'd say that's not until ~2027 at least by which hopefully Neale, Dempsey etc have stabilised themselves at an afl level

I'll give you Max, but Bruhn's kicked 3 goals from 11 games this year, so I'm not sure he'll be a big goal-kicker (though he has improved in other ways this year).

Henry has been reasonably consistent but needs a way to get into games when things aren't going our way. Close has kicked 16 goals to Stengle's 28.

I hope the penny's dropped with Cameron, though - and with this whole "utility player" approach. We don't need him on the wing or in the back 50. We need him up forward kicking goals. Would rather have someone like Knevitt there instead (who incidentally has kicked 6 goals - sure, in the VFL, but hasn't had the chance to prove otherwise).

Hopefully Dempsey can replace the X factor that Stengle does if he leaves, but that's not fair to him considering he's played the grand sum of 20 games, and to be honest, we need as much of that this year (and next, with Neale also raw) as we can get. Unless they chain Cameron to the F50, Stengle is basically our #1 avenue to goals.

 

[Mattttty]

I don’t think that’s quite right PO. Stengle is one of if not the best player in his spot in the league at the moment. Holmes is very important to our future & we’re sadly lacking in midfield talent & speed, but he’s not at the same comparative level yet.

50 goal a season pure small forward, that’s rare air.

Hopefully this year’s Stengle situation is similar to Holmes last year - people turning on them a bit assuming they are leaving until they sign on.

I hope so anyway, following the Cats these many years I always love a bit of flash in our team, he’s one of the finer talents we’ve ever had come to KP in that role.

I'm very much hoping he stays, but if Stengle is going to leave, how is it likely that plays out? Does it sometimes get announced during the season and then the player plays out the season with us and switches to them when the year is done? Or are there other scenarios?