McGowan3
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No doubt some of our players have been smelling themselves after our unbelievable start to the year. Some longterm contracts probably don't help. Staring reality right in the face now. Must make a stand against Magpies.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Autopsy Game is long over, Swans were putrid
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Last night was diabolical but I've never been one for trying to read into the psyche of players or coaches based on on-field performances.
Fabricating rifts between players due to contract negotiations or suggesting some sort of protest against Mills's inclusion is basically astrology for footy tragics.
Likewise continual accusations of "arrogance" don't ring true. We went into last night against a hot Port team, having lost 4 of our last 5. Nothing will convince me the players just assumed they could turn up and piss it in.
There are 101 factors that make up a professional footy team's performance. Trying to reduce it down to a silver bullet is fruitless.
Fabricating rifts between players due to contract negotiations or suggesting some sort of protest against Mills's inclusion is basically astrology for footy tragics.
Likewise continual accusations of "arrogance" don't ring true. We went into last night against a hot Port team, having lost 4 of our last 5. Nothing will convince me the players just assumed they could turn up and piss it in.
There are 101 factors that make up a professional footy team's performance. Trying to reduce it down to a silver bullet is fruitless.
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One thing that is starting to shit me, we have 3 big key forwards and not one is willing to split a pack. Every other team have guys that will launch at everything.
Not our bunch of fairies. Slightest bit of contact and they just throw their hands up. When 5"4 Evans took that uncontested grab at the top of the square while our "key forwards" just stood there was absolutely sickening
Not our bunch of fairies. Slightest bit of contact and they just throw their hands up. When 5"4 Evans took that uncontested grab at the top of the square while our "key forwards" just stood there was absolutely sickening
Chaisa
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Given the way we played that feels like an if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle kind of situation.
That said, it would be a really special turnaround if we did beat Collingwood.
It's unfathomable to become so shitful in such a quick amount of time. This current group shit me to tears, they talk so much publicly about how great they, about wanting to win multiple flags...but it's all just talk. Everytime you think the pennies finally dropped and they've finally learnt their lessons, sure enough they show their pathetically soft underbelly again....and these 'weak' performances get worse and worse every-time, less fight and pride than the last time.
There's too much talent out there to dish up that farce, they need to literally shut the **** up and actually start being the side they keep telling us they are. Premiership worthy sides just don't get flogged by 100, it's rare they get flogged by 50.
You can only hope as a fan, the midfield remembers that you actually need to try to win football and can sneak us into the top 4 and that the underbelly isn't exposed again at the wrong time. Problem is even if the first happens it's hard to see the second not happening, never going to be able to really trust this side, definitely not getting sucked into the next false dawn, they'd have to be standing on the premiership dais literally holding up the cup before you could ever truly believe in them again.
The only thing working for us is that every single other side has dished up shit that shows they're just as unworthy of a flag as we are.
None as bad as what we did last night mind you, last night was arguably the worst performance I have ever seen at AFL level, ever. Yeah some genuinely bad teams have been flogged, sure, never seen anything as remotely disgusting as last night from a top of a table team.
There's too much talent out there to dish up that farce, they need to literally shut the **** up and actually start being the side they keep telling us they are. Premiership worthy sides just don't get flogged by 100, it's rare they get flogged by 50.
You can only hope as a fan, the midfield remembers that you actually need to try to win football and can sneak us into the top 4 and that the underbelly isn't exposed again at the wrong time. Problem is even if the first happens it's hard to see the second not happening, never going to be able to really trust this side, definitely not getting sucked into the next false dawn, they'd have to be standing on the premiership dais literally holding up the cup before you could ever truly believe in them again.
The only thing working for us is that every single other side has dished up shit that shows they're just as unworthy of a flag as we are.
None as bad as what we did last night mind you, last night was arguably the worst performance I have ever seen at AFL level, ever. Yeah some genuinely bad teams have been flogged, sure, never seen anything as remotely disgusting as last night from a top of a table team.
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Considering we are top of the ladder, that performance was far worse than what wce dished up against us last year.
That literally was the worst performance of all time, all things considered
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LONG POST INCOMING
Three main thoughts I had out of last night...
The Big Three (at hurting team unity)
There is just this toxicity, for lack of better words, around the quote-unquote stars of the team.
All throughout the off-season I said I wanted us to lean into the hype more. Be less closed off to external attention and instead learn to embrace it. Try and make as many of our players "stars" as possible, so that if they are lucky enough to get to a grand final, they will be more comfortable in that spotlight than ever before. I still think that's the name of the game in the 2020s. Look at the sheer FIGJAM oozing out of Brisbane and Hawthorn and the Bulldogs as they've stormed home. The more big-headed Hawthorn have become, and the more they've embraced the "Write us off at your peril" narrative of their season's arc, the better they have actually played.
We had a bit of that going on earlier in the season. The problem is that it was SO focused on only three players: Heeney, Warner and Gulden. Even though they were far from the only three deserving of the star treatment (#JusticeForRowbottom), the whole "big three" hype just became so completely inescapable that I find it hard to believe it wouldn't have penetrated through the media wall and gotten into the four walls of the club. Especially when every Swan who was interviewed was asked about the "big three."
What I think it has done has had a detrimental effect on the rest of our players, and even the "big three" themselves. Feels like so many have dropped away now and think they can just leave it to the "big three" because they're soooo dominant and soooo spectacular. But then the "big three" have also dropped away, because they were only ever as good as everyone else made them look.
In that sense, the real team aspect of our performances has all but evaporated. We just look to get it to Gulden as much as possible, even if he's not the right option, because duhhh he's our best kick. Warner is allowed to just burn teammates regularly and everyone else has to accept that, because duhhh he's the tackle-breaker.
And it's not even just them. Blakey is our excitement machine off half back, so it seems like no one else is willing to take any risks off half back, because they can just leave that to Blakey. Rowbottom is our best tackler by a mile, so everyone's like oh just leave the defensive stuff and pressure efforts to Rowbottom.
We look like a team of individuals - many of whom have become convinced they can be carried by a few; and a few who are finding out the hard way they need the many to carry them.
Horse's Limit (...does exist)
There are probably 17 clubs in the competition that would love to have Horse's record and the "problems" that come with it. And what those problems are have been well-documented.
That said, watching Horse's interviews in recent weeks has conjured certain images to me.
Antony and Cleopatra after the Battle of Actium. Hitler in the Führerbunker. Davy Crockett at the Alamo.
A once-powerful leader who has, finally, run out of answers; who has no way out.
Horse's admission that they've tried many different things to fix the first quarters and none have worked is startling. That's the kind of helplessness that has usually preluded a coach's sacking.
Will Horse be sacked? Almost certainly not. Will he find the answers though? I don't know. But he'd want to, and quickly, because we are literally pissing away such a strong, dominant opportunity at a flag tilt. How bad a shape does a club have to be in to do this?
Well, I'll tell you how...
Port Adelaide in 2014. At round 14, they were a game clear on top of the ladder after going 11-2. They then went 3-6 and failed to make a grand final, and it preluded a five-year run without Port even being in the top four.
Fremantle in 2015. At round 14, they were two games clear on top of the ladder after going 12-1. They then went a very average 5-4, failed to make a grand final, and it preluded their drop down the ladder the following year, finishing 16th and ending up with a six-year abyss of no-finals.
North Melbourne in 2016. At round 12, they were a game clear on top of the ladder after going 10-2. They then went 2-9 for the rest of the season and were bundled out in the first week of finals. It preluded their descent into an eight-year abyss of no-finals that they are still in.
Melbourne in 2022. At round 10, they were two games clear on top of the ladder after going an absurd 10-0. They then went 6-7 for the rest of the season, lost in straight sets, and haven't won a final since. They're now 12th and look done as a team.
Having such huge winning streaks and domination over the competition is an impressive thing, but with the benefit of hindsight, we can see that choking away that stronghold on the competition is a concerning thing that suggests there's something more sinister happening with a team's culture that is only exposed in the years following.
So this is why Parker starting as sub, Warner Jr. being scapegoated as sub, Ladhams being played in the same team as Grundy & McLean, the selection of Francis, Wicks etc. just doesn't concern me.
They're all individual selections that are window-dressings to a much greater issue, which is that this team is clearly just ****ed right now, and Horse is responsible for that. Clearly Horse has managed this season horribly. Either from a player management perspective, burning the playing group out by the halfway point of a 25-round season. Or from a team morale perspective, failing to mentally ground a playing group that was almost four games clear on top of the ladder. Or from an on-field strategic perspective, having seemingly no solutions for a game plan that it appears everyone is now able to easily nullify.
If Horse doesn't correct course on this broader issue then any selection or non-selection or mis-use of a player won't make a blip of difference.
Am I any better?
...is the question I asked myself as I sat there pondering my criticisms of Horse. No, I am not. That is the most frustrating thing. I have literally no idea where the answers lie and where the solution comes from.
I feel like we're hamstrung somewhat by a huge portion of our list that might as well have an 'OUT OF ORDER' sign on their foreheads. Konstanty, Sheldrick, Vickery, Edwards, Hamling, Cleary, Kirk, Magor, Mitchell, Arnold, Snell, McAndrew all feel like they are in another realm, like the idea of them playing in an AFL game feels simply delusional and otherworldly. Horse has shown almost no inclination to give any of these guys a go this year, and whilst that is understandable, I really don't know what it will take for Horse to turn towards them. Give one of them a go. It feels like they serve no purpose on the list but to take up spots and fill our VFL side.
I can't remember a year where we've had such a lack of "squad mentality", and again, that's understandable when you're 13-1. But not when you're 1-4 over the last five weeks and look like absolute dogshit with a group of players who truly look like they couldn't give a crap and have forgotten how to play footy.
I also can't imagine that that lack of "squad mentality" is conducive to squad harmony when it feels like there are very clear lines between the haves and have-nots.
Maybe we need to tell Gulden, Warner, Blakey etc. that their All Australian spots are at risk (which they should be - shouldn't be giving out awards like that based on half seasons.) The individual accolades seems to be all they are after anyway. It sure as heck ain't doing what's best for the team.
After that? I'm stumped...
Three main thoughts I had out of last night...
The Big Three (at hurting team unity)
There is just this toxicity, for lack of better words, around the quote-unquote stars of the team.
All throughout the off-season I said I wanted us to lean into the hype more. Be less closed off to external attention and instead learn to embrace it. Try and make as many of our players "stars" as possible, so that if they are lucky enough to get to a grand final, they will be more comfortable in that spotlight than ever before. I still think that's the name of the game in the 2020s. Look at the sheer FIGJAM oozing out of Brisbane and Hawthorn and the Bulldogs as they've stormed home. The more big-headed Hawthorn have become, and the more they've embraced the "Write us off at your peril" narrative of their season's arc, the better they have actually played.
We had a bit of that going on earlier in the season. The problem is that it was SO focused on only three players: Heeney, Warner and Gulden. Even though they were far from the only three deserving of the star treatment (#JusticeForRowbottom), the whole "big three" hype just became so completely inescapable that I find it hard to believe it wouldn't have penetrated through the media wall and gotten into the four walls of the club. Especially when every Swan who was interviewed was asked about the "big three."
What I think it has done has had a detrimental effect on the rest of our players, and even the "big three" themselves. Feels like so many have dropped away now and think they can just leave it to the "big three" because they're soooo dominant and soooo spectacular. But then the "big three" have also dropped away, because they were only ever as good as everyone else made them look.
In that sense, the real team aspect of our performances has all but evaporated. We just look to get it to Gulden as much as possible, even if he's not the right option, because duhhh he's our best kick. Warner is allowed to just burn teammates regularly and everyone else has to accept that, because duhhh he's the tackle-breaker.
And it's not even just them. Blakey is our excitement machine off half back, so it seems like no one else is willing to take any risks off half back, because they can just leave that to Blakey. Rowbottom is our best tackler by a mile, so everyone's like oh just leave the defensive stuff and pressure efforts to Rowbottom.
We look like a team of individuals - many of whom have become convinced they can be carried by a few; and a few who are finding out the hard way they need the many to carry them.
Horse's Limit (...does exist)
There are probably 17 clubs in the competition that would love to have Horse's record and the "problems" that come with it. And what those problems are have been well-documented.
That said, watching Horse's interviews in recent weeks has conjured certain images to me.
Antony and Cleopatra after the Battle of Actium. Hitler in the Führerbunker. Davy Crockett at the Alamo.
A once-powerful leader who has, finally, run out of answers; who has no way out.
Horse's admission that they've tried many different things to fix the first quarters and none have worked is startling. That's the kind of helplessness that has usually preluded a coach's sacking.
Will Horse be sacked? Almost certainly not. Will he find the answers though? I don't know. But he'd want to, and quickly, because we are literally pissing away such a strong, dominant opportunity at a flag tilt. How bad a shape does a club have to be in to do this?
Well, I'll tell you how...
Port Adelaide in 2014. At round 14, they were a game clear on top of the ladder after going 11-2. They then went 3-6 and failed to make a grand final, and it preluded a five-year run without Port even being in the top four.
Fremantle in 2015. At round 14, they were two games clear on top of the ladder after going 12-1. They then went a very average 5-4, failed to make a grand final, and it preluded their drop down the ladder the following year, finishing 16th and ending up with a six-year abyss of no-finals.
North Melbourne in 2016. At round 12, they were a game clear on top of the ladder after going 10-2. They then went 2-9 for the rest of the season and were bundled out in the first week of finals. It preluded their descent into an eight-year abyss of no-finals that they are still in.
Melbourne in 2022. At round 10, they were two games clear on top of the ladder after going an absurd 10-0. They then went 6-7 for the rest of the season, lost in straight sets, and haven't won a final since. They're now 12th and look done as a team.
Having such huge winning streaks and domination over the competition is an impressive thing, but with the benefit of hindsight, we can see that choking away that stronghold on the competition is a concerning thing that suggests there's something more sinister happening with a team's culture that is only exposed in the years following.
So this is why Parker starting as sub, Warner Jr. being scapegoated as sub, Ladhams being played in the same team as Grundy & McLean, the selection of Francis, Wicks etc. just doesn't concern me.
They're all individual selections that are window-dressings to a much greater issue, which is that this team is clearly just ****ed right now, and Horse is responsible for that. Clearly Horse has managed this season horribly. Either from a player management perspective, burning the playing group out by the halfway point of a 25-round season. Or from a team morale perspective, failing to mentally ground a playing group that was almost four games clear on top of the ladder. Or from an on-field strategic perspective, having seemingly no solutions for a game plan that it appears everyone is now able to easily nullify.
If Horse doesn't correct course on this broader issue then any selection or non-selection or mis-use of a player won't make a blip of difference.
Am I any better?
...is the question I asked myself as I sat there pondering my criticisms of Horse. No, I am not. That is the most frustrating thing. I have literally no idea where the answers lie and where the solution comes from.
I feel like we're hamstrung somewhat by a huge portion of our list that might as well have an 'OUT OF ORDER' sign on their foreheads. Konstanty, Sheldrick, Vickery, Edwards, Hamling, Cleary, Kirk, Magor, Mitchell, Arnold, Snell, McAndrew all feel like they are in another realm, like the idea of them playing in an AFL game feels simply delusional and otherworldly. Horse has shown almost no inclination to give any of these guys a go this year, and whilst that is understandable, I really don't know what it will take for Horse to turn towards them. Give one of them a go. It feels like they serve no purpose on the list but to take up spots and fill our VFL side.
I can't remember a year where we've had such a lack of "squad mentality", and again, that's understandable when you're 13-1. But not when you're 1-4 over the last five weeks and look like absolute dogshit with a group of players who truly look like they couldn't give a crap and have forgotten how to play footy.
I also can't imagine that that lack of "squad mentality" is conducive to squad harmony when it feels like there are very clear lines between the haves and have-nots.
Maybe we need to tell Gulden, Warner, Blakey etc. that their All Australian spots are at risk (which they should be - shouldn't be giving out awards like that based on half seasons.) The individual accolades seems to be all they are after anyway. It sure as heck ain't doing what's best for the team.
After that? I'm stumped...
Awesome post Caesar88
It's been fairly fragile for a few weeks to be fair ive had my doubts.
I just hope we have a 7 week dead cat bounce. I fear we dont.
Young brigade look baked and Heeney and Chad are thinking about surfing in Bali already.
Pressure is our kytptonite sadly and has been for a decade..
If Horse has no idea how to fix this then it's time he listens to his other coaches or he steps aside.
It's been fairly fragile for a few weeks to be fair ive had my doubts.
I just hope we have a 7 week dead cat bounce. I fear we dont.
Young brigade look baked and Heeney and Chad are thinking about surfing in Bali already.
Pressure is our kytptonite sadly and has been for a decade..
If Horse has no idea how to fix this then it's time he listens to his other coaches or he steps aside.
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I think there has been a little arrogance creep in, and it isn't just the players.
They are mostly only little things. But I just get a sense the club got ahead of itself this year.
The biggest one for me is how they continue to treat Parker.
Coming back from the broken arm, a couple of weeks in the reserves made sense. But it went on and on and on, and is arguably still going. It reeks to me of the club thinking 'we are so good, we can afford to sit Luke Parker until we need him'.
It just seems off to me. I don't understand what their thinking is. No one can convince me that we are a better team having a Wicks or an injured Hayward running/limping around in the forward line than Luke Parker.
The rest of it is just little things. Some of the contract stuff. Gulden talking about he wants to play 100% playing time. Heeney sending out thank-you videos after a 1 week suspension.
Some of the other team selection. We lose Rampe, and then play the Bulldogs with all their tall forwards and we don't bring in Hamling or Francis to help. The coaches might say it was just a mistake, or they might not, but to me it was just arrogance to think we could cover them all without bringing another key defender in.
It's just little things like this that we keep getting wrong.
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I said it earlier in the season, our mids will not be able to protect our defenders every game. Our situation is that our mids have been worked out and it has exposed the back men. Without the mids scoring the forwards are exposed as average at best.
Fox, Heeney and Heeney’s missus walking through security in front of me at Adelaide airport. Took every fibre of my being not to shake my head with disappointment. Glad they are able to spend the day in Adelaide. Not like recovery should be a priority at all.
JackHiscoxWasFast
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Is Fox still confused ? Thought Heeneys missus was his when BT asked him earlier in the season.
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2 weeks ago our last 3 games all looked very winnable, such is the atrocity of our form, I literally don't know where our next win comes, and we need 2 of the ****ers.
I thought maybe pencil in Essendon as they're usually pathetic this time of year, but even on the eve of September they're not capitulating as meekly as us.
Maybe Adelaide game, if they treat the Showdown as their GF and don't bring their best 22 to our last game... they'd take pleasure in knocking us sown a peg though.
Collingwood looked very gettable 48 hours ago, but 100 point results don't often get turned around in a week. Fair to say we have the biggest gap between our best and worse but almost impossible to go from that effort shown last night to one good enough for a win in the space of 6 days.
I thought maybe pencil in Essendon as they're usually pathetic this time of year, but even on the eve of September they're not capitulating as meekly as us.
Maybe Adelaide game, if they treat the Showdown as their GF and don't bring their best 22 to our last game... they'd take pleasure in knocking us sown a peg though.
Collingwood looked very gettable 48 hours ago, but 100 point results don't often get turned around in a week. Fair to say we have the biggest gap between our best and worse but almost impossible to go from that effort shown last night to one good enough for a win in the space of 6 days.
JackHiscoxWasFast
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Yet the purveyors of probability, the bookmakers, see it very differently.
So you're saying there's hope!
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No sightings of the rest of the team?
Don't tell me they all wernt marched back to Sydney on the first possible flight
Just the two of them so far. Down the Virgin Australia end so should spot any others that come through.
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Club is taking the actual piss if players were given an extra day today
Ladhams just strolling into the Virgin lounge. Likely they were all supposed to be on the early morning flight but like the last 9 or so weeks they didn't turn up on time.
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I remember in the Hayward radio interview. He said they had training Monday morning. So he was able to take a later Sunday flight.
I don't think it is an issue. Maybe it is better for recovery not to be rushing to the airport the next morning.
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That’s funny. Aaron Francis was just in front of me. I wanted to say to him that I thought his second half was ok. But I couldn’t bring myself to do it as the need to also say that the club as a whole could do with someone coming into the place and explaining what the word unacceptable actually means
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What do they need to recover from
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