Review GBU vs Port

[George Kramer]

Young and developing side struggling toward the backend of the season when the senior players beside Laird and Walker has been sh*t or inconsistent all season, who would have thought. Beating an experience West Coast side in WA and Kennedy's final game with this young side late in the season deserve credit don't you think.

Umm, you’ve just said it yourself, our senior players except for Laird and Walker have mostly been shit or inconsistent, does that make us closer to being a shit or good side?

And young and developing is ok if you’ve got good young players to work with, we clearly have some, but we’ve also got 2 first rounders who were developing who are shit and one stuck in the SANFL who hasn’t played AFL for 2 years and is miles away from it.

 

[George Kramer]

No I'm not .....we had a s*** night .....all clubs have them & will continue to have them

List build is going well .....again, your expectation with a full rebuild, is to win most games .....I don't get how you don't have a realistic view that a young team will:

a) not develop in a linear direction
b) players will chop & change thru that development phase

I've seen far more players improve this year, than remain stagnant ......Rowe & Crouch have been a staple in the side, now being made redundant .....Murphy & Sholl likely to follow suit

Nicks has coached well this year .....he's been playing tram track footy for most of the season ......ask yourself why ? there's a good reason !

You have a habit of bullshitting about what others are thinking to try and argue your case.

I don’t expect to win most games, so why make that up?

Nicks has coached well?

 

[ABAB]

Umm, you’ve just said it yourself, our senior players except for Laird and Walker have mostly been s**t or inconsistent, does that make us closer to being a s**t or good side?

And young and developing is ok if you’ve got good young players to work with, we clearly have some, but we’ve also got 2 first rounders who were developing who are s**t and one stuck in the SANFL who hasn’t played AFL for 2 years and is miles away from it.

Nah, we are rebuilding so I mainly concentrate on the young players development whether they are 1st rounders or not they just need to force their way into the best 22 and I think you find we have more than "some" good young players as I replied to Southerntakeover. Doesn't mean the rebuild is sh*t.

 

[Redline]

Yep, 2023/1 is enough, they won't walk away from that so hang tough with it.

Realistically that could easily be a top four pick and almost certainly a top six pick. May even be pick one if Tex has a bad year next year. We would want to be certain there isn't going ti be. JHF type. I'd rather use this year's.

 

[fortunatecrow]

Set shot, RoB every day.

My four year old has a better action. But he kicks straight.



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and he would have 30s to get the ball onto his boot

 

[Magma]

it's like our recruiters got it horribly wrong the direction footy was going in and loaded up on small guys. the biggest issues that a lot of these small guys arent quick, just small. makes it kind of useless. small forwards with no line bursting pace and can barely make the distance from 35.

anyone who says we dont need rankine is kidding themselves. rachele is the only genuine small forward a the club with upside and he's been in the door 5 minutes. maybe if they make some tough decisions on players they can then get back into the top 15 of the draft. get creative, take some risks, and actually properly look at the list and its deficiencies. stop gifting blokes careers, stop having players who are past their use by date, and put some standards in for what you want the club to actually be on field.

 

[rocket18]

No I'm not .....we had a s*** night .....all clubs have them & will continue to have them

List build is going well .....again, your expectation with a full rebuild, is to win most games .....I don't get how you don't have a realistic view that a young team will:

a) not develop in a linear direction
b) players will chop & change thru that development phase

I've seen far more players improve this year, than remain stagnant ......Rowe & Crouch have been a staple in the side, now being made redundant .....Murphy & Sholl likely to follow suit

Nicks has coached well this year .....he's been playing tram track footy for most of the season ......ask yourself why ? there's a good reason !

Nicks has coached well!

Selection has been abysmal.

Gameplan is crap, including your "tram tracks" which relates to Nicks selecting spuds with woeful skills - but they try hard.

Nicks seems a good bloke but boy oh boy he can't coach, don't know how much more data people need.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Looks fake

The fact it's at the MCG should make it obvious.

 

[DJ75]

Yeah. We undid everything that the last two showdowns had been in terms of rebuilding pride and competitiveness.

Fundamentally, we're a club of effort first wimps. We let Port bully us this week, to the shame of our supporter base. And there's no reason to think next year won't be the same.

Disgusting club.

This is a sh!t take.
Go support another club.

 

[LeftyLuke]

Seeing Murray take that mark up forward makes me wonder if we are playing him at the wrong end of the ground. There's a better player there if we play him in a more suited position I believe. Playing him forward gives him the licence to go for marks and we lack that high flying tall that we haven't had since McGovern left. Fogarty is taking some good marks but a dual threat would be better. Even if he can bring the ball to ground and decrease opposition intercept marks this would be a bonus. He also does quite well in the ruck so I wonder if Murray and Thilthorpe could swap between forward and ruck. This would allow us to replace ROB.

If we are bringing in someone like Brennan Cox

36

Brennan Cox

Age

25

Ht

195cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

5.3

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

182.8

3star

D

12.3

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.0

2star

MG

182.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

that may free up Murray. I would also like to see us try Himmelberg down back as he seems surplus to our needs up forward. I also wonder what's happening with Frampton. Would we be better trading Doedee who has more value than Frampton and playing Frampton in Doedee's spot along with Worrell as our interceptors? I guess it depends if they club thinks Frampton can do as good a job as Doedee or not. Framptons disposal out of the back half is pretty good most of the time.

 

[CrowBloke]

3) So his performances against Collingwood, Sydney and Carlton (Rounds 18-20) were s**t?
1) You don’t need to drop Walker to play Gollant. We have McHenry, Murphy and Rowe. Take your pick of any of these to drop.
2) Walker actually provides leadership out there and is obvious each game. Our actual leaders - O’Brien, Keays and Smith - don’t provide any sort of leadership on the field.

1) Agree totally (but Nicks selected his try-hard scrappers week after week )

2) Yes, leadership, forward line organisation, 2.70 goals/game in 2022, plus goal assists, all of that
HOWEVER
3) sorry, but this is a false conclusion. I don't think 1970crow said or implied that; I'm pretty sure he wanted Tex rested for the WCE game which makes sense to me.

Tex has played 1 good game the last handful. In a supposedly developing list, it’s not good enough.

Nah, mate, just the last couple. Very few played well last night.

I’d have extended him for sure, but he’d have known he might be playing 2s or getting multi-week freshen ups and he’d have been on modest coin.

I like your (? --- I think so, not sure) idea of playing him 3 out of 4 , or 4 out of 5 games to keep him fresh eg rest him against WCE for sure.
He's too valuable overall to be playing SANFL; one of very few true on-ground leaders.

Extending him when we did was stupidity.

Hindsight is always 20-20. At the time, it made sense. Still does, to me.
Provided he has a strong pre-season, we'll need Tex in 2023 to kick another 40+ goals in 18 or so games. He still has presence and attracts oppo's best defender.

 

[ABAB]

it's like our recruiters got it horribly wrong the direction footy was going in and loaded up on small guys. the biggest issues that a lot of these small guys arent quick, just small. makes it kind of useless. small forwards with no line bursting pace and can barely make the distance from 35.

anyone who says we dont need rankine is kidding themselves. rachele is the only genuine small forward a the club with upside and he's been in the door 5 minutes. maybe if they make some tough decisions on players they can then get back into the top 15 of the draft. get creative, take some risks, and actually properly look at the list and its deficiencies. stop gifting blokes careers, stop having players who are past their use by date, and put some standards in for what you want the club to actually be on field.

Jones has elite pace but rarely use it effectively and worked with the small guys we drafted last year in Rachele, Soligo and Taylor.

 

[LeftyLuke]

God only knows what the dogs can see if the rumours are true..

Depth I guess.

 

[bootrossbootross]

We looked awful after half time, Ports pressure was very good and we just couldn't get any momentum.

I don't think we should read too much into tonight's performance, Port just wanted it more, this is like their grand final every year.

I still think we have made progress this year and we are heading in the right direction. We still have quite a bit of dead wood we need to move on, but the core is there of a good side. We just need to add more classy players this off season, and we need to do whatever we can to keep our first pick and draft the best mid available.

this is the kind of take that has led to sustained mediocrity as the main demonstrated value of the AFC.

 

[Southerntakeover]

This is a sh!t take.
Go support another club.

Always love it when people try to pose as the most loyal idiot. The club won't give you a treat if you praise its failure.

Port took our milk money. You liked that? And this is being a supporter in your view? Just pretending the most abject humiliations are good?

 

[bootrossbootross]

Hamish Ogilvie has a lot to answer for.


We are in this position from him making
Gallucci
Jones
McHenry
McCasey

First round draft picks.

None of these guys had outstanding attributes in their draft bios and I suspect that all the phantom draft experts only included some of these guys in first round prediction calculations as they get wind we are into them.

Doubt any other club makes these guys first round draftees.





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This.
The fact the recruitment team are still there is a blight on the club and will continue to eat it until they are gone. The club will never have a chance at success until this occurs.

 

[bootrossbootross]

It doesn’t excuse your original statement, Chayce was rated as a first rounder and so was McAsey, taking them where we did wasn’t a reach. Both had attributes that could translate to an elite player at AFL level, but it hasn’t worked out.

You are defending the recruiting of the last 4-5 years?

 

[bootrossbootross]

Nah. The output from the youngsters (25 and below) this year vs last is far greater. Clear transition, particularly in the second half of the year, from old fellas carrying the young guys to young guys dragging the old fellas along.

We had 4 guys over 25 (5 with McAdam but he's not really experienced) playing in the last month of the year (smith and O'brien being mostly useless) and looked much better than last year for all but the second half tonight. Schoenberg and Butts were just about the only young guys pulling their weight this time last year.

Don't think theres any argument what so ever to say we regressed, we are clearly better placed now than last year.

EDIT: For reference we had 10 players over 25 when we beat Melbourne last year.

I think the win/loss, and when and against whom the wins came make a fairly compelling, consistent argument. And the constant lack of hand/foot/decision making skills displayed every game by most of the players might also make such an argument.
They are a side that has one mode - ugly, and sometimes it works, but it is not leading to a premiership in the next 10 years with the current best 12 talent levels on the list.
The real question is how to make a side around the 4-5 talented youngsters we have.

 

[George Kramer]

It doesn’t excuse your original statement, Chayce was rated as a first rounder and so was McAsey, taking them where we did wasn’t a reach. Both had attributes that could translate to an elite player at AFL level, but it hasn’t worked out.

Yeah, we are the unlucky club that was forced to pick them

 

[bootrossbootross]

No the reality is that our ‘team defensive’ stuff is so bad that we allow so many inside 50’s. It’s the whole team outside the D50 that lacks the frenetic pressure that makes teams cough the ball up. We have huge pressure around the stoppages and centre clearances, but once it gets out of there we’re slow as fu(k

We’re never going to win a game consistently conceding 60+ inside 50’s

But once it goes inside 50 we have two absolutely plonker KPD’s who don’t know what to do with themselves if the ball goes to ground (or out the back) once they attempted their singular objective to spoil the ball like some defender transported from the 70’s

Both our KPD’s in Butts and Murray are not, I repeat they are NOT, modern KPD’s in that they have other weapons to their game other than mind-numbing spoiling…

We can manage one of those, because there will always be a straight-up modern KPF to defend, but we can’t keep two on our books.

Meanwhile we have a 201cm defender racking up 32 possessions in the SANFL???

Bizarre.

The hate for Frampton is strange imho, to me he mirrors an early Matt Robran in development. He is athletic, can run, has foot and hand skills and has shown enough to surely sit at CHB for half a year and truly develop. God forbid we actually get an attacking CHB that shows some run and flair.
I get he has had a few shockers but give him some time under Burgess and a coaching staff that support him and we will see. Same goes for Himmelburg over ROB.

 

[LeftyLuke]

The hate for Frampton is strange imho, to me he mirrors an early Matt Robran in development. He is athletic, can run, has foot and hand skills and has shown enough to surely sit at CHB for half a year and truly develop. God forbid we actually get an attacking CHB that shows some run and flair.
I get he has had a few shockers but give him some time under Burgess and a coaching staff that support him and we will see. Same goes for Himmelburg over ROB.

I think Frampton is as good as Doedee. Both not good at defending but both good at intercepting and Frampton probably has him on foot skill.

 

[bootrossbootross]

Nicks is a self promoter but many of us can actually analyse the games and list accurately so know Nicks is a bull sh artist in pressers.

TLDR: Harsh.

What do you expect him to say? Perhaps a few angry or pointed press conferences might make for good off field fodder for the press and emotional supporters, but they are unlikely to add value to the way forward.

Surely what actually matters is what he says behind closed doors to his players, his staff and those above him - I have yet to see any knowledge of that appear on a forum.

He would be well aware of the calibre of the list at his disposal and the gameplan and way they play appear to me to be a direct reflection on that list capability. I'm not defending team selection or tactics, but the list he has it what he has, and I'm just not sure what he could do differently regarding his public persona, or why he would need to change anything it at all.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

That means

Rowe
Murphy
Keays
Mchenry

OUT.. and forever

And

Newchurch
Rachele
Rankine
Taylor
Pedlar
Cook
Nankervis

IN

The talent to replace the hopeless, talentless spuds is there.. the courage to do so in the selection committee and coaches box is the problem.

Mainly because they strangely reward effort and training capacity over actual skill and ability.

Until this changes we will continue to be a bottom 8 side.

Keays I think still has a role to play & playing injured in the last part of season... but the rest I agree with.

But we really need to bring in small forwards with skills, including the ability to kick goals more often than missing.

We need to prioritise talent with skills over honest triers who have no further upside.

 

[bootrossbootross]

So when we win against a good side in a high pressure game it means nothing?

Bloody hell there are some whingers on this board. We obviously still have a long way to go, but there have been some positive signs this year. Some people only ever focus on the negative.

How many fingers needed to name those wins in a time of the year when it mattered over the last 5 years?

 

[rabidcrow]

The mark he took makes you want to see it but I think we're too top heavy up forward with TT/Fog/Tex along with Gollant pushing for a spot.

Would love to have one of our big defenders willing to take the game on in the back half and take the intercept marks that other teams bigs to that eat us up. Our in recent years have been too defensive minded with no counter punch, haven't had anyone that's done it for us since Bock really.

Worrell can get there I think. Could be a good rebounding intercept defender


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