Roast Geelong can't develop young players

[Kobe Gryant]

Not really, treloar cost us two first rounders, adams cost us heath Shaw, crisp was traded for Dayne beams who was a best and fairest winner and all Australian before joining Brisbane, and he only left cause his dad was literally dying and we weren’t going to stop him from going under those circumstances. Cameron had played one game in three years at Sydney, they clearly didn’t rate him, and he’s from WA not Victoria. Framptons the same, was at multiple clubs and wasn’t rated by either prior to getting to Collingwood. Mcstay was a free agent so it’s not the same as a trade. Hill tried to get to Essendon at least 12 months before he joined Collingwood. WHE is probably the only one there that you could make a case for.

Jeremy Cameron has also gone on record saying he was in talks with Collingwood but didn’t want to live in the city so that rules us and the other 8 Melbourne clubs out, and just leaves you.

Old mate is right, you have a monopoly, and other Victorian clubs can’t offer the lifestyle that you can.

That's a lot of words to completely miss the point. Players move clubs, plain and simple.

If you can't handle that, then you might as well give up sport all together.

The "bUt tHis wAs dIfFfEreNT" routine is the same stuff that Norf supporters have whinged about with JHF.

It's just childish, and a little sad.

 

[PhatBoy]

They know you are right, but if they admit it they can’t pretend they are great at developing kids. Not gonna lie most Victorian clubs would envy what Geelong is able to do with their recruitment and the lifestyle they offer.

Don’t say ‘not gonna lie’ if you’re going to pretend to be someone else, and don’t forget when Ollie Henry left your club

 

[Jock1eyemcpie]

That's a lot of words to completely miss the point. Players move clubs, plain and simple.

If you can't handle that, then you might as well give up sport all together.

The "bUt tHis wAs dIfFfEreNT" routine is the same stuff that Norf supporters have whinged about with JHF.

It's just childish, and a little sad.

JHF leaving after picking up his 10k bonus to go number 1 was a shit go, and clearly a lot of other people feel the same, otherwise Hinkley wouldn’t have whinged that he was getting booed by opposition supporters that weren’t north Melbourne.

 

[PhatBoy]

I remember when players leave my club and when we were the reigning premiers is all I’m saying.

 

[mcgarnacle]

What you say is partially true mcgarnacle: but I'll put it to you that GWS, Sydney, Collingwood, Carlton, etc need to evaluate themselves once they have played the likes of Geelong and at present I don't think for a moment Sydney is any better side than Geelong, so they themselves will have alot to prove. Also the Brisbane Lions win at the MCG against the Demons the week prior to Geelong comfortably beating them in the wet last weekend was one of their 'very best away wins EVER' since Chris Fagan took over the reins and to be sure it was their 'best-ever non finals win at the MCG' especially with their backs to the wall and Chris Fagan said as much at press conference after the Demons game.

He seriously couldn't wipe the smile off his face, it's the happiest I've ever seen him as he truly thought the club had turned the corner in a big way but alas a determined and committed Geelong came out and beat them. Still reckon the Brisbane Lions are going to win a lot more games than they lose for the rest of the year and good luck to any clubs that still are required to play them up at the Gabba this season.

I didn't write that Geelong aren't up to those sides, though. I wrote we should evaluate Geelong once they've played some other contending teams, based on current ladder position. You would probably agree that the cats haven't played many premiership contenders in their 6-game sample so far. I selected those other teams + Collingwood because they're currently also in the top 4 and the pies are current premiers.

That goes for the other teams too, as it seems most of the top 4 have already gone through North, West Coast, Adelaide, etc. Sydney played Melbourne and Collingwood (who were still settling into the season so I'm not taking anything out of that match) in the first two rounds, but have had it fairly 'easy' since, despite the blip to Richmond.

The big guns will play each over the next month, and by round 11, we should see where Geelong, and all these other teams are at.

 

[Bunnings]

Holmes must have signed with the cats cos no other club would want a player from Geelongs poor development system

 

[FootyLad0]

Holmes must have signed with the cats cos no other club would want a player from Geelongs poor development system

You nailed it!

What a shit player right?! Those $1M+ per year offers were clearly with Monopoly money…

 

[Mr Meow]

Brown & Hopper isn't a bad name for an old English pub or a law firm.

Holmes, Bowes, Bruhn, O.Henry and Clark will drive the regeneration of a list more effectively, though.

 

[Mr Meow]

pathetic view? just because I don't rate some Geelong kids? riiigghht.

Would Dempsey and Conway count as "young" players?

Maybe Max Holmes (21), receiving coaches votes in 6 of 8 games from the backline and featuring in a number of rolling AA sides.

Perhaps Ollie Henry (21), top 10 in the league for combined goals/assists from a forward pocket?

Is this the reason for the myopic focus on Jhye Clark?

 

[PhatBoy]

View attachment 1983331
Would Dempsey and Conway count as "young" players?

Maybe Max Holmes (21), receiving coaches votes in 6 of 8 games from the backline and featuring in a number of rolling AA sides.

Perhaps Ollie Henry (21), top 10 in the league for combined goals/assists from a forward pocket?

Is this the reason for the myopic focus on Jhye Clark?

Interested to see where Meteoric Rise sits on the Ollie Henry situation. He’s now I think one goal off averaging two per game since he arrived at Geelong, has kicked multiple goals in 6 of 8 games this season, and ironically one of the ones he missed out on was against North, and he’s now bagged multiples in 20 of his 30 games at Geelong. Not bad for a 21-year-old who’s future prospects look mixed

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Interested to see where Meteoric Rise sits on the Ollie Henry situation. He’s now I think one goal off averaging two per game since he arrived at Geelong, has kicked multiple goals in 6 of 8 games this season, and ironically one of the ones he missed out on was against North, and he’s now bagged multiples in 20 of his 30 games at Geelong. Not bad for a 21-year-old who’s future prospects look mixed

He's going well in his role especially for his age. I don't see him as any sort of special player or one with unlimited upside at this stage but happy to be proven wrong if he starts looking like going to another level. His player rating is getting up to a tidy level around 9 on average in 2024, see if he maintains that all season. His ratings of 13.4 and 14.9 the last 2 games against good opposition can't be denied.

I am starting to wonder if we are going to see the rise of the stand rule forward like Fritsch and Henry. Mid-sized guys who don't win lot of contested footy but kick plenty of goals from chest marks and in Henry's case at least supply more pressure than a resting ruck or key forward would. This sort of player didn't really exist or thrive to any great extent prior to the stand rule, probably Jack Gunston the best of them in the past generation, but he was 193cm, so a bit bigger.

Gunston in his 4th year in the system was playing in a Premiership team, but by then he was rating around 12 on average. These were some key stats in 2013 v Oli Henry this year, Guston on the left:


Player ratings: 11.9 v 9.0
Time on Ground: 83% v 89%
Disposals: 15.4 v 9.3
Efficiency: 75% v 66%
Inside 50: 1.9 v 1.9
Rebound 50: 0.6 v 0.0
Metres Gained: 254 v 164
Disposals per turnover: 6.8 v 3.2
Contested possession: 5.6 v 4.4
Intercepts: 1.7 v 0.4
Ground ball gets: 3.9 v 2.5
Marks: 5.6 v 3.6
Contested Marks: 0.8 v 0.6
Marks on lead: 1.3 v 0.6
Goals + Assists: 2.5 v 3.2(This was Gunston's lowest figure between his 3rd and 6th years he went 2.8, 2.5, 3.4, 3.2)
Score Involvement: 6.5 v 5.6
Score Involvement %: 22.4 v 22.6
Score Launch: 0.8 v 0.3
Offensive 1 v 1 contests: 2.8 v 1.9
Offensive 1 v 1 win %: 37 v 20
Tackles: 2.5 v 1.4
Pressure acts: 12.9 v 12.8
Spoils: 0.6 v 1.1
1%ers: 1.2 v 2.0


So we can see in this 4th year comparison Gunston is quite a lot stronger than Henry overall, though Henry is getting more goals + assists to this point in the season.

It will be interesting to see if Henry goes more the way of Fritsch who has achieved a max player rating around 10.0 season average, or if he rises to the heights of a Gunston who was returning ratings typically around 12 & 13 in his prime years, sort of like the forward line version of a Nick Vlastuin or Tom Stewart type and level of player.

 

[Mr Meow]

He's going well in his role especially for his age. I don't see him as any sort of special player or one with unlimited upside at this stage but happy to be proven wrong if he starts looking like going to another level. His player rating is getting up to a tidy level around 9 on average in 2024, see if he maintains that all season. His ratings of 13.4 and 14.9 the last 2 games against good opposition can't be denied.

I am starting to wonder if we are going to see the rise of the stand rule forward like Fritsch and Henry. Mid-sized guys who don't win lot of contested footy but kick plenty of goals from chest marks and in Henry's case at least supply more pressure than a resting ruck or key forward would. This sort of player didn't really exist or thrive to any great extent prior to the stand rule, probably Jack Gunston the best of them in the past generation, but he was 193cm, so a bit bigger.

Gunston in his 4th year in the system was playing in a Premiership team, but by then he was rating around 12 on average. These were some key stats in 2013 v Oli Henry this year, Guston on the left:


Player ratings: 11.9 v 9.0
Time on Ground: 83% v 89%
Disposals: 15.4 v 9.3
Efficiency: 75% v 66%
Inside 50: 1.9 v 1.9
Rebound 50: 0.6 v 0.0
Metres Gained: 254 v 164
Disposals per turnover: 6.8 v 3.2
Contested possession: 5.6 v 4.4
Intercepts: 1.7 v 0.4
Ground ball gets: 3.9 v 2.5
Marks: 5.6 v 3.6
Contested Marks: 0.8 v 0.6
Marks on lead: 1.3 v 0.6
Goals + Assists: 2.5 v 3.2(This was Gunston's lowest figure between his 3rd and 6th years he went 2.8, 2.5, 3.4, 3.2)
Score Involvement: 6.5 v 5.6
Score Involvement %: 22.4 v 22.6
Score Launch: 0.8 v 0.3
Offensive 1 v 1 contests: 2.8 v 1.9
Offensive 1 v 1 win %: 37 v 20
Tackles: 2.5 v 1.4
Pressure acts: 12.9 v 12.8
Spoils: 0.6 v 1.1
1%ers: 1.2 v 2.0


So we can see in this 4th year comparison Gunston is quite a lot stronger than Henry overall, though Henry is getting more goals + assists to this point in the season.

It will be interesting to see if Henry goes more the way of Fritsch who has achieved a max player rating around 10.0 season average, or if he rises to the heights of a Gunston who was returning ratings typically around 12 & 13 in his prime years, sort of like the forward line version of a Nick Vlastuin or Tom Stewart type and level of player.

Gunston was a gun(ston). If the AA side went for third tall forwards more than once every 10 years he'd surely have made the team more than once. He was a big reason things didn't take a big hit up forward once Franklin left. Not that he was a superstar in that mould, but a player like him is still incredibly valuable. With Hawkins huge decline, Henry is already extremely important for Geelong. And he's a few years off his prime, at least.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Gunston was a gun(ston). If the AA side went for third tall forwards more than once every 10 years he'd surely have made the team more than once. He was a big reason things didn't take a big hit up forward once Franklin left. Not that he was a superstar in that mould, but a player like him is still incredibly valuable. With Hawkins huge decline, Henry is already extremely important for Geelong. And he's a few years off his prime, at least.

If Gunston played for a team other than Hawthorn or Richmond he would have more than one AA selection. If he played for Geelong he would have about 6.

His ratings would place him in the top few forwards in about 6 separate seasons and the top couple of non-key permanent forwards in about half of those. He is an exceptional player of this genre, but as you say, short of superstar status. Henry looks to be tracking a bit below that level at the same stage of his career.

 

[Mr Meow]

His ratings would place him in the top few forwards in about 6 separate seasons and the top couple of non-key permanent forwards in about half of those. He is an exceptional player of this genre, but as you say, short of superstar status. Henry looks to be tracking a bit below that level at the same stage of his career.

I removed the part that would derail this discussion and amounts to a giant whinge, but agree with your second paragraph. I think slowly there has been a greater appreciation of players beyond the obvious superstar midfielders/key forwards/key defenders. Third tall forwards or defenders, creative flankers, hard running wingmen - if you have an assembly of players strong in these areas it can make as vital a difference as having two A grade midfielders or the Coleman medallist.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Is this the reason for the myopic focus on Jhye Clark?

As I've said elsewhere, the fact that a 19 year old who missed most of his first season through injury is literally all that the trolls can shoot at, is proof that youth development and regeneration are going extremely well down at the Cattery.

 

[STPer18]

View attachment 1983331
Would Dempsey and Conway count as "young" players?

Maybe Max Holmes (21), receiving coaches votes in 6 of 8 games from the backline and featuring in a number of rolling AA sides.

Perhaps Ollie Henry (21), top 10 in the league for combined goals/assists from a forward pocket?

Is this the reason for the myopic focus on Jhye Clark?

Geelong are the only team with two players in the top ten - no, top six who meet eligibility for the rising star? One of which is a rookie pick taken straight out of school footy?

Dare I say, elite development!

 

[MisterMarcus]

Geelong are the only team with two players in the top ten - no, top six who meet eligibility for the rising star? One of which is a rookie pick taken straight out of school footy?

Dare I say, elite development!

"But but but....they don't count because they weren't drafted between Pick 10 and 20 on a rainy day beginning with a T......"

 

[STPer18]

"But but but....they don't count because they weren't drafted between Pick 10 and 20 on a rainy day beginning with a T......"

Darn it, I knew there had to be a catch somewhere.

 

[CharacterFirst]

If Gunston played for a team other than Hawthorn or Richmond he would have more than one AA selection. If he played for Geelong he would have about 6.

If he played for Richmond he might have 1/2 a dozen Norm Smiths.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

If he played for Richmond he might have 1/2 a dozen Norm Smiths.

Bit tough when the GOAT is 3 from 3.

 

[FootyLad0]

Bit tough when the GOAT is 3 from 3.

Gary Ablett isn't 3 from 3?...unless you mean someone else who isn't the GOAT?

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

Warrants further discussion.... older players struggling and kids not good enough to pick up the slack. Were we tricked early by their easy draw?

 

[Philhawk]

 

[Daka]

Won't be too long & the Cats will be out of the 8 imo.

Their performance against was where they were truly at.

 

[FootyLad0]

Warrants further discussion.... older players struggling and kids not good enough to pick up the slack. Were we tricked early by their easy draw?

Wouldn’t that be because we are blooding young kids? Young kids aren’t gonna be world beaters overnight