No Oppo Supporters General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome** Part 2

[Ned Ryerson]

Love this whole 'educate your daughters' commentary being trotted out. How about educating your ****ing sons to not be deceptive campaigners and share naked photos of someone without their knowledge and consent?

Let's flip the scenario here. Let's say a bunch of mates get drunk and stupid and in the process are naked. One bloke takes photos of a less than equipped bloke and proceeds to text them to other mates and acquaintances making fun of this bloke. This then spreads to social media. The bloke is made a fool of in a very public manner. Are we to say that he only has himself to blame? Should we have educated him about the risks of one of your mates being a campaigner? Be bloody reasonable.

In this day and age of smartphones - everyone has the right to not have sordid photos of themselves mass distributed without their consent.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

What's with people not taking responsibility for their own actions these days? All parties are at fault. To point the finger and say one is more guilty than the other is ridiculous.


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Being naked in a private setting isn't a crime - sharing naked photos of someone without their consent is. Not sure how all parties share fault or guilt here.

 

[MacMace]

Alot of assumption going on here, why say crap like this, you lose you valid argument when you start grasping for straws.

Yep, and a lot of people are claiming the high moral ground, suggesting that people who disagree with them are disrespectful to women. Which is complete bullshit.

I respect all people regardless of their gender, it is not disrespectful to disagree that the player/s involved will not go to prison (which is where this started), but should be punished, it is also not disrespectful to suggest that people of all genders should take responsibility for their actions, and perhaps not allow people to take naked pictures of them.

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[beta_condition]

Doesn't matter if there are assumptions. The point of the argument is that it should never have happened. If the girl did not agree, the guy needs to go down. If she did agree, then that is another story and there is no case for the guy to answer.
I am not prepared to hang the guy until the facts are known, but if guilty, then punish him according to the law.

It does, you can't rant and rightly so about campaigners that do these type of things while throwing in basing assumption on someone character and wrapping them all under the one post. When you don't even know what happened.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Yep, and a lot of people are claiming the high moral ground, suggesting that people who disagree with them are disrespectful to women. Which is complete bullshit.

I respect all people regardless of their gender, it is not disrespectful to disagree that the player/s involved will not go to prison (which is where this started), but should be punished, it is also not disrespectful to suggest that people of all genders should take responsibility for their actions, and perhaps not allow people to take naked pictures of them.

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It's also far, far more disrespectful to share sordid photos of anyone of any gender without their consent. It's astounding that people think that once someone's clothes are off that they become open slather to this kind of shit.

Again I challenge you to go into a strip club and whip out your iPhone near any of the stages. You'll be answering to the friendly security guards very quickly.

 

[William Wonka]

Man I don't even know where to start with this.

You're part of the problem. You don't know how you'd act if you had a daughter, if you really think about it, if you really believe that if photos of your daughters body were posted online and passed around and the media and cops were all over it and she was upset that your response would be harden the **** up then you need to have a look at how you view and value women

I DO have a child though, and I want him to be protected from real criminals by our police and legal system- not have them wasting their time with this.

I have my doubts as to how upset the lady in question is, since she got a lawer her breasts have gone from being seen by a relatively small number of people on a twitter feed to being seen by hundreds of thousands on national news.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I dont have a daughter only a son but if I did have one I would still want the coppers chasing real actual criminals and the legal system locking them up.

Also I think I might just quietly tell my daughter to harden the **** up or maybe not pose for pics like that in the first place? Its really not an issue, they're just **** ffs.
Princess Kate the bloody Duchess of Cambridge had hers snapped secretly and without her knowledge then splashed all round the world and she seems to have survived.

I have a daughter, and if she is ever in this predicament, I will hunt the little campaigner down who shares the pic and break his legs.

 

[beta_condition]

Love this whole 'educate your daughters' commentary being trotted out. How about educating your ******* sons to not be deceptive campaigners and share naked photos of someone without their knowledge and consent?

Happens to both males/females so why not teach your children they're dickheads in the world and protect yourself, should it be like that? Well no but the world has campaigners so protect yourself.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Happens to both males/females so why not teach your children they're dickheads in the world and protect yourself, should it be like that? Well no but the world has campaigners so protect yourself.

I edited my post. I think the better lesson would be to teach your kids not to be campaigners, rather than fear leacherous perverts to be snap happy at every corner in life. That's just me though.

I have barely made this to be broadly about gender. I'll repeat again that the women who shared the Cloke/Swan pictures should have copped some form of punishment under these laws too. They're lucky the club and players would have wanted it gone quickly.

 

[arupist]

It does, you can't rant and rightly so about campaigners that do these type of things while throwing in basing assumption on someone character and wrapping them all under the one post. When you don't even know what happened.

No it doesn't. If you go back to Mr Wonka's original post on the topic, it was saying that the police shouldn't waste their time investigating and to focus on catching real criminals. This is why the discussion has become quite robust and focusses on whether such an act should be dealt with to the letter of the law. We can't take a stance where we think this is such a little thing so just slap him on the wrist.

It goes beyond this particular incident.

 

[MacMace]

It's also far, far more disrespectful to share sordid photos of anyone of any gender without their consent. It's astounding that people think that once someone's clothes are off that they become open slather to this kind of shit.

Again I challenge you to go into a strip club and whip out your iPhone near any of the stages. You'll be answering to the friendly security guards very quickly.

Agreed. But who is suggesting that?

I don't think anyone has said the player/s involved shouldn't be punished, which acknowledges that this behaviour is disrespectful, it's the type of punishment that has been questioned.

However, some also believe that people should also take responsibility for their own actions and not allow others to take random nude pics, which lets be honest is rarely going to end well.

On SM-G900I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[beta_condition]

I edited my post. I think the better lesson would be to teach your kids not to be campaigners, rather than fear leacherous perverts to be snap happy at every corner in life. That's just me though.

Well I agree that would be better and how it should be but campaigners are gonna be campaigners. The worlds dangerous and people make victims of good people.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Agreed. But who is suggesting that?

I don't think anyone has said the player/s involved shouldn't be punished, which acknowledges that this behaviour is disrespectful, it's the type of punishment that has been questioned.

However, some also believe that people should also take responsibility for their own actions and not allow others to take random nude pics, which lets be honest is rarely going to end well.

On SM-G900I using BigFooty.com mobile app

The woman claims that she was told the photo was deleted. Again, a woman amongst a bunch of footy players - how much power do you think she wields? If they took a photo of me I'd be hard pushed finding the confidence to tell them to delete it.

And there's plenty here arguing that the player shouldn't be punished.

 

[Glacier]

Agreed. But who is suggesting that?

I don't think anyone has said the player/s involved shouldn't be punished, which acknowledges that this behaviour is disrespectful, it's the type of punishment that has been questioned.

However, some also believe that people should also take responsibility for their own actions and not allow others to take random nude pics, which lets be honest is rarely going to end well.

On SM-G900I using BigFooty.com mobile app

See this is the thing Mac, it's not against the law to get your photo taken nude
But it's against the law to distribute that photo in public without the persons consent
Now we can sit in judgement all we like of this woman's choices, but her silliness is not what's really important here
It's the scumbag ILLEGAL act of distributing that photo without her knowledge or consent
In no way has her poor judgement got anything to do with the disgraceful actions of the players, nor does it in any way give them an excuse

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Well I agree that would be better and how it should be but campaigners are gonna be campaigners. The worlds dangerous and people make victims of good people.

And that doesn't mean we should just roll over and let them. We now have laws in this domain, and so we should.

Let's remember that Lara Bingle had her partner at the time snap and share a naked image without her consent. The issue here shouldn't be the perpetual vigilance of the innocent but on the shitty behaviour of the perpetrator.

 

[MacMace]

The woman claims that she was told the photo was deleted. Again, a woman amongst a bunch of footy players - how much power do you think she wields? If they took a photo of me I'd be hard pushed finding the confidence to tell them to delete it.

And there's plenty here arguing that the player shouldn't be punished.

Are they, or are they suggesting a less harsh punishment than prison time.

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[Ned Ryerson]

Are they, or are they suggesting a less harsh punishment than prison time.

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I have advocated that also. Many are stating though that a crime hasn't been committed, which it has, or that if it has then it shouldn't be punishable because a woman had the audacity to disrobe.

I don't think jail time should happen here. The maximum sentence would probably be there in instances of people dealing with revenge pr0n blackmail etc.

That said - I wouldn't be opposed to this at least going to court, having a judge give a non-custodial sentencing if the player in question was guilty and setting some precedent on this to serve as a warning to other dickheads.

 

[beta_condition]

And that doesn't mean we should just roll over and let them. We now have laws in this domain, and so we should.

Let's remember that Lara Bingle had her partner at the time snap and share a naked image without her consent. The issue here shouldn't be the perpetual vigilance of the innocent but on the shitty behaviour of the perpetrator.

... We have laws yes and these people should get what they deserved(currently not enough) that has little to do with teaching your kids to be smart around people you don't know and even people you do know. Nothing you posted has any relevance to what I posted.

 

[Gralin]

This! How stupid to take the photo in the first place.

Delete it off the phone if you didn't consent to it being taken. Once its out there in the real world you no longer own the photo.

The web owns it.

More importantly if you have young daughters educate them on the dangers of risk photos and videos.

nobody is saying it was a good idea to take the photo but are you trying to tell me you think she could take the phone off him and delete the photo if he didn't want her to?
this is also assuming there was no coercion in taking the photo, being talked into it that sort of thing

i agree educate your kids, sons or daughters, teach the boys to respect women and not do that shit, teach the girls to respect themselves and realise that boys can be dicks

 

[MacMace]

See this is the thing Mac, it's not against the law to get your photo taken nude
But it's against the law to distribute that photo in public without the persons consent
Now we can sit in judgement all we like of this woman's choices, but her silliness is not what's really important here
It's the scumbag ILLEGAL act of distributing that photo without her knowledge or consent
In no way has her poor judgement got anything to do with the disgraceful actions of the players, nor does it in any way give them an excuse

Agree, shit act, shit blokes who should be punished. I just think punishment will not involve prison time. That should be reserved for the real evil pricks, which is what I believe is the intention of the legislation.

And while it doesn't condone the behaviour of the tool that took and shared the pic, there would have been no pic in the first place if the woman had not gotten naked and posed for it.

On SM-G900I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Gralin]

Agree, shit act, shit blokes who should be punished. I just think punishment will not involve prison time. That should be reserved for the real evil pricks, which is what I believe is the intention of the legislation.

And while it doesn't condone the behaviour of the tool that took and shared the pic, there would have been no pic in the first place if the woman had not gotten naked and posed for it.

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You were doing ok until your last paragraph

 

[Glacier]

You were doing ok until your last paragraph

Yeah
It reminds me of the old line " she asked for it , look how she's dressed"

 

[Ned Ryerson]

there would have been no pic in the first place if the woman had not gotten naked and posed for it.

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Can't argue with that logic - just like how there would have been no Bourke Street Mall massacre if people had taken more personal responsibility to not be on the footpath when a car was driving on it at high speed.

 

[Gralin]

I DO have a child though, and I want him to be protected from real criminals by our police and legal system- not have them wasting their time with this.

I have my doubts as to how upset the lady in question is, since she got a lawer her breasts have gone from being seen by a relatively small number of people on a twitter feed to being seen by hundreds of thousands on national news.

Guess what if you break the law you a real criminal

And your second point, that's the issue, if a woman takes a stand she has to deal with public scrutiny and there are plenty of campaigners lining her up to lay blame at her feet.
If the woman, any woman stands up to this and the person involved is a public figure she's going to cop flack from random assholes on the internet, she's going to cop flack from the other parties friends and lawyers

She in a lot of ways makes it harder on herself by standing up, which is bullshit and here you are being one of those internet assholes about it and saying well she let the photo be taken she should just shut up and wear it.

It's not right

 

[William Wonka]

Are they, or are they suggesting a less harsh punishment than prison time.

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Im probably the instigator of all this and I've got no issues with him being penalised (Civil penalties not criminal) a lawsuit and if the case could be proven a five figure penalty would both assuage the girls 'shame and embarrassment' and serve to discourage others from sharing naughty pics.
(Call me cynical but I have a sneaking suspicion that a payment will be forthcoming and when it does the charges will instantaneously be dropped)

Any actual criminal conviction however is incredibly harsh and two years jail as even a possibility is draconian in the extreme.

Yeah
It reminds me of the old line " she asked for it , look how she's dressed"

"Look how shes undressed" you mean.