No Oppo Supporters General AFL Discussion #12 - Carlton Posters ONLY!

[OnceWeWereKings]

Fair crack at it, 88.
Still active - If your going out, might as well be doing your thing at 88.
SA footballing royalty.
Vale Knuckles

 

[RPCB]

 

[Stamos]

8 years is a lot

 

[RPCB]

8 years is a lot

For any player. It will be interesting what the terms are. I would imagine it will be heavily front loaded.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

He’s a deadset gun, we had a chance to grab him end of 2019. Wish we had of


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

I just watched the Clayton Oliver

13

Clayton Oliver

Age

27

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.8

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

18.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

6.3

5star

CL

6.3

5star

D

25.1

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

19.2

5star

K

4.6

2star

HB

14.6

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.8

5star

highlights package on the Dees twitter after his re-signing. Was actually expecting it to be better than that. Was ok, but not great.
Showed 10 goals, which is about a quarter of his career tally. My biggest criticism of him is his inability to hit the scoreboard. Same criticism I had for Cripps early on, but he still did it at a better clip than Clarry. Yet they've decided to make that part of his game a fairly large focus in the highlights. And I reckon two of the tackles shown were incorrectly paid because the player with the ball had no prior. Another highlight was just a one on one mark. Nothing special and didn't even show the kick after the mark.
Would have thought you'd focus more on his clearance, contested and grunt work.

 

[Hands On]

He’s a deadset gun, we had a chance to grab him end of 2019. Wish we had of


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

He is very Judesque

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

He is very Judesque

Jude Bolton agrees?

 

[BigBreakfast]

He’s a deadset gun, we had a chance to grab him end of 2019. Wish we had of


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Pass, I’ll trust in Cripps!

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

He’s a deadset gun, we had a chance to grab him end of 2019. Wish we had of


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

He's pretty good, don't get me wrong, but I honestly don't think he and Cripps would work in the middle together.
Oliver is undoubtedly a better player than Kennedy, but Kennedy compliments Cripps better. And he's a threat on the scoreboard.
Kennedy's played a bit over half as many games as Oliver, but has kicked 34.22 in 73 games to Oliver's 42.45 in 138 games.
Even this year, it's 5.6 vs 2.6 in Kennedy's favour and Kennedy has played 2 less games and only plays 69.9% game time, compared to Oliver's 86.3%.
There's also only 3 months age difference.
Once you adjust Kennedy's numbers for time on ground, there's not a huge difference between them.

 

[mikeythemoocow]

He’s still a Fanta pants, and not a Adrian Hickmott

Adrian Hickmott

Age

52

Ht

182cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.3

4star

K

8.7

3star

HB

6.5

4star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.1

4star

G

0.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

11.4

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.2

3star

 

[Lace_Out]

He's pretty good, don't get me wrong, but I honestly don't think he and Cripps would work in the middle together.
Oliver is undoubtedly a better player than Kennedy, but Kennedy compliments Cripps better. And he's a threat on the scoreboard.
Kennedy's played a bit over half as many games as Oliver, but has kicked 34.22 in 73 games to Oliver's 42.45 in 138 games.
Even this year, it's 5.6 vs 2.6 in Kennedy's favour and Kennedy has played 2 less games and only plays 69.9% game time, compared to Oliver's 86.3%.
There's also only 3 months age difference.
Once you adjust Kennedy's numbers for time on ground, there's not a huge difference between them.
View attachment 1436419

Thats intresting. Instinctively I think Oliver is a far more damaging player.

As I was going through the stats I was thinking Kennedy would clearly spend less time on the ground. Was stunned it was identical to Oliver!

Kennedy is doing it without the break away speed that Oliver has at his disposal too.

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

 

[Gethelred]

I just watched the Clayton Oliver highlights package on the Dees twitter after his re-signing. Was actually expecting it to be better than that. Was ok, but not great.
Showed 10 goals, which is about a quarter of his career tally. My biggest criticism of him is his inability to hit the scoreboard. Same criticism I had for Cripps early on, but he still did it at a better clip than Clarry. Yet they've decided to make that part of his game a fairly large focus in the highlights. And I reckon two of the tackles shown were incorrectly paid because the player with the ball had no prior. Another highlight was just a one on one mark. Nothing special and didn't even show the kick after the mark.
Would have thought you'd focus more on his clearance, contested and grunt work.

The highlight package is a lost art in the AFL. Too much focus on scoring, too many straightforward goals championed, not nearly enough actual effort shown.

It's kind of Cyril Rioli's fault; or, rather, the way the media depicted him and what he could do onfield. Before him, you had quality highlights focussing on what a player did well; if they were a mid, you saw them doing mid things, being creative, perfect pickups and breaking free from congestion; if you had a defender (not too many defenders got highlight packages) you'd get marks like Leo Barry's, tackles or possessions like Scarletts in 2008-09 where he barely touched the ball but because he knocked it over to someone else who delivered to Hawkins at full forward and Hawkins goaled, it was one of the most important balls won for the year.

Now, what you're getting isn't highlights, but nostalgia driven crowd favourites. Someone kicks a straightforward goal, but at a moment to bury a hated opponent; someone lays a tackle on blindsighted opposition; someone takes a speckie, because not even the AFL could **** up a speckie. If Cyril hadn't almost singlehandedly taught the AFL how to win HTB frees by pinning the rear arm, they wouldn't have realised what could be done with a highlight reel.

It's their perception of what we want versus what we actually want. Pretty important difference.

 

[Gethelred]

He's pretty good, don't get me wrong, but I honestly don't think he and Cripps would work in the middle together.
Oliver is undoubtedly a better player than Kennedy, but Kennedy compliments Cripps better. And he's a threat on the scoreboard.
Kennedy's played a bit over half as many games as Oliver, but has kicked 34.22 in 73 games to Oliver's 42.45 in 138 games.
Even this year, it's 5.6 vs 2.6 in Kennedy's favour and Kennedy has played 2 less games and only plays 69.9% game time, compared to Oliver's 86.3%.
There's also only 3 months age difference.
Once you adjust Kennedy's numbers for time on ground, there's not a huge difference between them.
View attachment 1436419

How much of the career difference in scoring is due to Teague playing him as a short full forward?

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Thats intresting. Instinctively I think Oliver is a far more damaging player.

As I was going through the stats I was thinking Kennedy would clearly spend less time on the ground. Was stunned it was identical to Oliver!

Kennedy is doing it without the break away speed that Oliver has at his disposal too.

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

Sorry if the graphic is confusing. Kennedy does spend significantly less time on ground. As mentioned in my comment above, it's 69.9% vs 86.3%.
I adjusted Kennedy's stats to allow for him spending less time on ground. This is how the numbers stack up if they both spent 86.3% time on ground.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

How much of the career difference in scoring is due to Teague playing him as a short full forward?

Certainly impacts it a little bit. He kicked 11.5 from 10 games in the year that he spent significant time as a forward. Not huge numbers.
Last year was 6.2 from 13 games, but mostly as a mid (?). This year is 5.6 from 12 games, purely as a mid. So that tally this year could be better if it wasn't for accuracy.
Oliver has kicked 2.6 this year from 14 games. It's the biggest chink in his armour.

 

[Gethelred]

Just rereading the Crows board, during the McGovern trade.

It's really interesting, the difference between his value now versus his value at the time. Some of them wanted us to trade pick 1 - which we picked up Walsh with - for him. Its kind of mindblowing that, even contracted, he was ever considered worth that much in a trade; some of that's due to the degree Walsh has exploded onto the AFL scene, but some of that's also due to how haphazard our game has been over that time too.

Had we been better and him a mite fitter, perhaps he'd be perceived differently, even if it'd still be absurd to compare him to Walsh.

 

[FRUMPY]

Sorry if the graphic is confusing. Kennedy does spend significantly less time on ground. As mentioned in my comment above, it's 69.9% vs 86.3%.
I adjusted Kennedy's stats to allow for him spending less time on ground. This is how the numbers stack up if they both spent 86.3% time on ground.

But he doesn't spend 86.3% time on the ground - you may as well add any stat to make your argument better - just add an 20 touches a game, 130 extra goals and 500 tackles - its the same as adjusting the stats as you have....

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

But he doesn't spend 86.3% time on the ground - you may as well add any stat to make your argument better - just add an 20 touches a game, 130 extra goals and 500 tackles - its the same as adjusting the stats as you have....

Sorry you feel that way.

 

[FRUMPY]

Sorry you feel that way.

makes me wonder why Kennedy plays such little game time if his impact would be the same if he played alot more minutes (as per your argument)......

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

makes me wonder why Kennedy plays such little game time if his impact would be the same if he played alot more minutes (as per your argument)......

That wasn't my argument.

 

[FRUMPY]

That wasn't my argument.

so you didnt edit Kennedy's stats to make them look better than they actually are in comparison to another player? why did you adjust the numbers for? just put them as actual - unless you wanted to skew them to look better.....

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

so you didnt edit Kennedy's stats to make them look better than they actually are in comparison to another player? why did you adjust the numbers for? just put them as actual - unless you wanted to skew them to look better.....

C'mon mate, stop looking for an argument.
Look at it as impact per minute if that helps, or don't look at it at all.

I was simply saying that I couldn't see Cripps and Oliver working as well in the middle as Cripps and Kennedy do. Whilst Kennedy isn't on ground for as long as Oliver, his impact for the time that he is on the ground, is similar to Oliver's.
Take it or leave it, but I'm not keen to debate it.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Would take Oliver over Kennedy any and every day of the week. And I love what Bam Bam is doing.

Oliver's running game has gone off the charts in the last couple of years, especially for a bloke who wins as much contested ball as he does.

Now you can argue cost as a major factor too, which is fair, but if we're only looking at how each player would interface with our midfield, Oliver has Kennedy covered by a mile. Goal stats are irrelevant to the discussion, Kennedy has played more senior games as a pseudo-forward where Oliver has been a pure mid from day one.

 

[goreds]

Would take Oliver over Kennedy any and every day of the week. And I love what Bam Bam is doing.

Oliver's running game has gone off the charts in the last couple of years, especially for a bloke who wins as much contested ball as he does.

Now you can argue cost as a major factor too, which is fair, but if we're only looking at how each player would interface with our midfield, Oliver has Kennedy covered by a mile. Goal stats are irrelevant to the discussion, Kennedy has played more senior games as a pseudo-forward where Oliver has been a pure mid from day one.

Statistics put Kennedy in the Oliver wheel house, ridiculous...

Oliver is a top 10 player in my eyes. In our midfield, he would be unstoppable...