Opinion Get Clarko to The Hangar - 5 year deal done says Heppellfreak (post #334) - now with poll

[eth-dog]

I have made it clear I think Rutten should see out his contract


BUT the melts on the Norf board would be gold.

It would be better if he waited a year and then takes the job (if Truck were to fail next year)

 

[Bombermania]

Whilst at a work conference, I got talking to someone that's connected to Essendon through its coterie groups, and he hadn't heard anything about Clarko coming to Essendon.

 

[ant555]

I think I would be disappointed.
It would show that we still haven't learned to suppress our need to fill a messiah complex and aren't patient enough to develop for the long term.

Clarkson may be a great coach, but we are 1.5 years through Ruttens tenure and we knew it would be a long haul. Truck has been investing in youth and I would like to see it through, personally.

And once again no process to select a coach.

 

[BrunoV]

Okay.
So have checked in with a few people who may know something . A few connected to the club and some connected to the AFL.
One source no it is not true.
Two saying it is on the money.
My best source was no comment.
AFL source said Clarko would prefer to stay in Victoria if he could.
Make of it what you will.
A bit on the fence I know but I suspect there is something going on.

There has to be something going on.

How could there not be? We've got a coach we didn't appoint for a rebuild getting no apparent buy in to the blue collar style he is trying to implement and the best coach of the modern era is available.

Do fans really not want this being considered? Why the hell not?

That doesn't mean Clarkson will be at Essendon but it also doesn't mean that the very idea can just be trashed.

Who are the people who could have sounded out Clarkson? Could there be a splintering of factions, coteries who are going to tee this up and then move to force the change they want?

Too many look at superficial similarities and apply a precedent. There are many more rebuilds that end up in failure than there are premiership dynasties created.

Coaches do not deserve to coach any more than the current season. There needs to be tangible improvement from year to year.

I dont see it in the style of footy, it's still junk.

You don't give a guy a third year to implement something he hasn't been able to do for the first 2. That's just hope.

The list is in reasonable shape. From here it needs tweaking. Clarkson doesn't get to control that anyway.

All indications from Clarkson are that he is not going to chase quick fixes, that he appreciates the mistake so many coaching greats make second time around.

We're not serious if we're not considering this. It comes with its pitfalls but so does giving time an incumbent just because he's there.

 

[Lore]

All indications from Clarkson are that he is not going to chase quick fixes, that he appreciates the mistake so many coaching greats make second time around.

Has he actually indicated this?

Going on the evidence of his last 5 years at Hawthorn chasing the quick fix and the very few comments he’s made since then that might have indicated a change in philosophy, I don’t really buy it.

 

[JayJ20]

And once again no process to select a coach.

The fact that some people cannot see this point

There has to be something going on.

How could there not be? We've got a coach we didn't appoint for a rebuild getting no apparent buy in to the blue collar style he is trying to implement and the best coach of the modern era is available.

Do fans really not want this being considered? Why the hell not?

That doesn't mean Clarkson will be at Essendon but it also doesn't mean that the very idea can just be trashed.

Who are the people who could have sounded out Clarkson? Could there be a splintering of factions, coteries who are going to tee this up and then move to force the change they want?

Too many look at superficial similarities and apply a precedent. There are many more rebuilds that end up in failure than there are premiership dynasties created.

Coaches do not deserve to coach any more than the current season. There needs to be tangible improvement from year to year.

I dont see it in the style of footy, it's still junk.

You don't give a guy a third year to implement something he hasn't been able to do for the first 2. That's just hope.

The list is in reasonable shape. From here it needs tweaking. Clarkson doesn't get to control that anyway.

All indications from Clarkson are that he is not going to chase quick fixes, that he appreciates the mistake so many coaching greats make second time around.

We're not serious if we're not considering this. It comes with its pitfalls but so does giving time an incumbent just because he's there.

Given you are one of the biggest proponents of our size deficiencies in the middle, what makes you look at it as a coaching issue rather than a list management issue? He literally helped develop the most dominant defensive team in modern history so he clearly knows what he is doing.

To me, expecting a blue collar style from a list that is anything but blue collar in less than two years is incredibly shortsighted. Do you realistically expect for Clarkson to make this team play 'blue collar' in less than two years? Do you expect him to make them hit targets in less than a year?
Better yet, did Clarkson do everything you want Rutten to do in less than 2 years? How long were Hardwick or Goodwin given? Did Hardwick and Goodwin do everything you want Rutten to do in less than 2 years?

The "greatest coach" argument lacks insight. Clarkson had probably the most talented team in modern history built from priority picks and that Freo trade that led to Luke Hodge. There is no way our list is anywhere near as talented (with strong leadership) as the list he had. He has an ordinary record with an ordinary list post 2015 and hasn't won a final since the 2015 premiership. I would only consider him if I'm certain Rutten isn't the right coach possibly at the end of next year. Even that, it has to be through a proper process.

Speaking of process, who is to say Clarkson won't leave the moment Tasmania gets a new team? Then what? Too many reasons why I don't want Clarko to coach next year.

The only time I'd entertain Clarkson is if we regressed at the end of next year. Otherwise, there's no need for someone that hasn't won a final since 2015 prior to significant rule changes and benefited from priority picks + probably the strongest on-field leaders in modern history. The list is nowhere near as talented as the list Hawthorn had.

 

[nipst@r]

The fact that some people cannot see this point

Given you are one of the biggest proponents of our size deficiencies in the middle, what makes you look at it as a coaching issue rather than a list management issue? He literally helped develop the most dominant defensive team in modern history so he clearly knows what he is doing.

To me, expecting a blue collar style from a list that is anything but blue collar in less than two years is incredibly shortsighted. Do you realistically expect for Clarkson to make this team play 'blue collar' in less than two years? Do you expect him to make them hit targets in less than a year?
Better yet, did Clarkson do everything you want Rutten to do in less than 2 years? How long were Hardwick or Goodwin given? Did Hardwick and Goodwin do everything you want Rutten to do in less than 2 years?

The "greatest coach" argument lacks insight. Clarkson had probably the most talented team in modern history built from priority picks and that Freo trade that led to Luke Hodge. There is no way our list is anywhere near as talented (with strong leadership) as the list he had. He has an ordinary record with an ordinary list post 2015 and hasn't won a final since the 2015 premiership. I would only consider him if I'm certain Rutten isn't the right coach possibly at the end of next year. Even that, it has to be through a proper process.

Speaking of process, who is to say Clarkson won't leave the moment Tasmania gets a new team? Then what? Too many reasons why I don't want Clarko to coach next year.

The only time I'd entertain Clarkson is if we regressed at the end of next year. Otherwise, there's no need for someone that hasn't won a final since 2015 prior to significant rule changes and benefited from priority picks + probably the strongest on-field leaders in modern history. The list is nowhere near as talented as the list Hawthorn had.

I don't buy Clarkson going for the quick fix. He let go a lot of stars/veterans and we should compare Hawks vs ess results over these years. Hawks result wise are more advanced than us, wins matter more than narrative.

I think most Hawks fans would say closer to flag than us. So has clarko last few years hurt them that much.

 

[nipst@r]

The fact that some people cannot see this point

Given you are one of the biggest proponents of our size deficiencies in the middle, what makes you look at it as a coaching issue rather than a list management issue? He literally helped develop the most dominant defensive team in modern history so he clearly knows what he is doing.

To me, expecting a blue collar style from a list that is anything but blue collar in less than two years is incredibly shortsighted. Do you realistically expect for Clarkson to make this team play 'blue collar' in less than two years? Do you expect him to make them hit targets in less than a year?
Better yet, did Clarkson do everything you want Rutten to do in less than 2 years? How long were Hardwick or Goodwin given? Did Hardwick and Goodwin do everything you want Rutten to do in less than 2 years?

The "greatest coach" argument lacks insight. Clarkson had probably the most talented team in modern history built from priority picks and that Freo trade that led to Luke Hodge. There is no way our list is anywhere near as talented (with strong leadership) as the list he had. He has an ordinary record with an ordinary list post 2015 and hasn't won a final since the 2015 premiership. I would only consider him if I'm certain Rutten isn't the right coach possibly at the end of next year. Even that, it has to be through a proper process.

Speaking of process, who is to say Clarkson won't leave the moment Tasmania gets a new team? Then what? Too many reasons why I don't want Clarko to coach next year.

The only time I'd entertain Clarkson is if we regressed at the end of next year. Otherwise, there's no need for someone that hasn't won a final since 2015 prior to significant rule changes and benefited from priority picks + probably the strongest on-field leaders in modern history. The list is nowhere near as talented as the list Hawthorn had.

Very easy to brush over the fact Hawks won 4 flags pre 2015 and are still more advanced in rebuild post success than ess.

If Clarkson is bad in that timeframe the ess coaches we have had are appalling. Still better like for like yet we had no success and Hawks were on a downward run.

 

[Lore]

Very easy to brush over the fact Hawks won 4 flags pre 2015 and are still more advanced in rebuild post success than ess.

If Clarkson is bad in that timeframe the ess coaches we have had are appalling. Still better like for like yet we had no success and Hawks were on a downward run.

You mean the accident of history?

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

One source no it is not true.
Two saying it is on the money.
My best source was no comment.
AFL source said Clarko would prefer to stay in Victoria if he could.
Make of it what you will.

Bit all over the place. It’s already been reported in the press that Clarko would prefer to stay in Victoria.

 

[ghostdog]

If this is true then its about as ballsy a move as you can get. I like it.

When you are in the business of winning premiership you go and get the best.

I don't think 'ballsy' is the word you're looking for. Ballsy is keeping the rookie over the triple premiership veteran.

I wish we were ballsy.

 

[Albertross]

There has to be something going on.

How could there not be? We've got a coach we didn't appoint for a rebuild getting no apparent buy in to the blue collar style he is trying to implement and the best coach of the modern era is available.

Do fans really not want this being considered? Why the hell not?

That doesn't mean Clarkson will be at Essendon but it also doesn't mean that the very idea can just be trashed.

Who are the people who could have sounded out Clarkson? Could there be a splintering of factions, coteries who are going to tee this up and then move to force the change they want?

Too many look at superficial similarities and apply a precedent. There are many more rebuilds that end up in failure than there are premiership dynasties created.

Coaches do not deserve to coach any more than the current season. There needs to be tangible improvement from year to year.

I dont see it in the style of footy, it's still junk.

You don't give a guy a third year to implement something he hasn't been able to do for the first 2. That's just hope.

The list is in reasonable shape. From here it needs tweaking. Clarkson doesn't get to control that anyway.

All indications from Clarkson are that he is not going to chase quick fixes, that he appreciates the mistake so many coaching greats make second time around.

We're not serious if we're not considering this. It comes with its pitfalls but so does giving time an incumbent just because he's there.

I dont usually rant, but it's Friday night, so here goes.

Technically speaking, I think Hardwick is the most successful coach of the modern era. Who were his assistants that were also credited with turning the Tigers around again?

Maybe our problem is that the coteries have too much of power in what's going on within the club. Just maybe that is who we need to distance ourselves from.

We have a young list, played a number of powerhouse teams first up this year in a tough draw and had early injuries to key players, as well as senior players getting smashed by supporters and the media from pillar to post. Once those key players came back, we've played better. Our list is pretty thin tbh.

And how the he'll could the board not realise when Truck was appointed, that we needed a rebuild? They continue to oversell expectations to get memberships. End of!!!

Clarkson won 4 games in his first year, then 11, 13 and a GF. Maybe the problem that so many see with Truck is that we fluked a finals berth last year and have dropped this year.

Truck should have done it the other way around. F***** up last year with a handful of wins with a bunch of kids and improved this year with an easier draw. Built some confidence early in the season. That way so many of the naysayers would not be calling for his head on a stake.

Whilst we're at it, how can you say that you dont give a guy a 3rd year to implement something he hasn't been able to in the first 2 years. You do realise it takes time yeah? What about Bomber at the Cats? Or Dimma at the Tiges? Longmuir? All under pressure, but the board backed them, which led to impmovement or the ultimate success.

I've stuck by this club through thick and thin (SAGA) since I was knee high to a grasshopper, so I would say 48 years.

Honestly, think of me what you want, but, if we dump Truck for Clarko, who has no guarantee of success, I reckon I may start watching the NRL.

I doubt Clarko will coach Norf, by the sounds of it and he won't coach GWS. Who else is there this year? If Truck is a bust midway through next year, then I say go for it, but, at this stage, I think the players are buying into it more than what frustrated supporters are giving them credit for. That is why we have our top players committing to the club.

 

[Albertross]

Whilst at a work conference, I got talking to someone that's connected to Essendon through its coterie groups, and he hadn't heard anything about Clarko coming to Essendon.

I also spoke to a bloke at work, he follows NRL, he didn't even know who Clarko was!

Rumour quashed as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Bombermania]

I also spoke to a bloke at work, he follows NRL, he didn't even know who Clarko was!

Rumour quashed as far as I'm concerned.

Doesn't mean any rumour of Clarko coming to Essendon is untrue, just that if the club is actively chasing Clarko, they are doing a great job of preventing it from leaking out.

 

[Albertross]

Doesn't mean any rumour of Clarko coming to Essendon is untrue, just that if the club is actively chasing Clarko, they are doing a great job of preventing it from leaking out.

Yeah, I get it, but it's all just BF speculation then isnt it.

Either we are all of a sudden great at keeping the media from knowing what's going on, or it's all BS!

Any fool can say they have inside info and people will run with it. IMO, people generally believe the first story they are told without doing research.

 

[Burzum]

Feels like a move that the club thinks is a tough one when it's the easiest one.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

He’s been seen as recently as a few days ago zipping in and out of meetings with Giants and North. Why he bother if he’s already committed to us?

 

[ant555]

Bit all over the place. It’s already been reported in the press that Clarko would prefer to stay in Victoria.

Well you did not have to read it did you ?
People are interested. I know a few people in and around the AFL. This is what they are saying.

 

[BrunoV]

Has he actually indicated this?

Going on the evidence of his last 5 years at Hawthorn chasing the quick fix and the very few comments he’s made since then that might have indicated a change in philosophy, I don’t really buy it.

My paraphrase of what he's said:

No I'm not just going to a side in contention.

I am prepared to build a team again.

Whately spent a lot of time with him at a function and talked with Clarkson a lot. It's produced lots of little quotes which seemed to me to be start of the latest round of PR. There was the attack on the $1.6m claim and it also seemed to put his philosophy into the public arena.

GW said ACs been harping on about building culture. I reckon I even heard something along the line that he'd embrace the challange of starting near the bottom with North and to build that culture again.

He's been OS again studying basketball again.

 

[BrunoV]

I dont usually rant, but it's Friday night, so here goes.

Technically speaking, I think Hardwick is the most successful coach of the modern era. Who were his assistants that were also credited with turning the Tigers around again?

Maybe our problem is that the coteries have too much of power in what's going on within the club. Just maybe that is who we need to distance ourselves from.

We have a young list, played a number of powerhouse teams first up this year in a tough draw and had early injuries to key players, as well as senior players getting smashed by supporters and the media from pillar to post. Once those key players came back, we've played better. Our list is pretty thin tbh.

And how the he'll could the board not realise when Truck was appointed, that we needed a rebuild? They continue to oversell expectations to get memberships. End of!!!

Clarkson won 4 games in his first year, then 11, 13 and a GF. Maybe the problem that so many see with Truck is that we fluked a finals berth last year and have dropped this year.

Truck should have done it the other way around. F***** up last year with a handful of wins with a bunch of kids and improved this year with an easier draw. Built some confidence early in the season. That way so many of the naysayers would not be calling for his head on a stake.

Whilst we're at it, how can you say that you dont give a guy a 3rd year to implement something he hasn't been able to in the first 2 years. You do realise it takes time yeah? What about Bomber at the Cats? Or Dimma at the Tiges? Longmuir? All under pressure, but the board backed them, which led to impmovement or the ultimate success.

I've stuck by this club through thick and thin (SAGA) since I was knee high to a grasshopper, so I would say 48 years.

Honestly, think of me what you want, but, if we dump Truck for Clarko, who has no guarantee of success, I reckon I may start watching the NRL.

I doubt Clarko will coach Norf, by the sounds of it and he won't coach GWS. Who else is there this year? If Truck is a bust midway through next year, then I say go for it, but, at this stage, I think the players are buying into it more than what frustrated supporters are giving them credit for. That is why we have our top players committing to the club.

I'm not saying its okay that that coteries have power. I was only looking at it to address how it is that credible sources could be providing information and how credible sources could also be out of the loop.

As for Rutten's appointment, that happened at the end of 2019 for the 2020 handover.

During the 2019 off season we refused to trade Daniher and Fantasia. Hurley and Hooker still had big contracts. Heppell was considered a good player. The list also had Saad and McKenna.

We were no where near the rebuild territory we ended up in by the end of 2020 when we lost Daniher, Saad, McKenna and Fantasia. Hurley, Hooker and Heppell all looked cooked. We then recruit 4 KPPs in the draft signalling the start of the rebuild.

If Daniher and Saad don't leave, we don't have the picks to start the rebuild.

Rutten wasn't selected to do the job he is currently in because that job didn't exist.

I also think as fans we need to distinguish the results from the footy. You could seriously mount a case that the Brisbane win was bottom 3 for worst performances of the year - pressureless circlework trash.

We've had reasonable results before. It's getting the team to defend that is the problem. The post ASADA pattern is a year of bounce created by freedom followed by the players refusing to defend, the results crashing, bouncing the next year ignoring defence and then crashing the next.

Nothing has changed in that regard. My expectations for Rutten didn't centre on finals as much as it did setting up something sustainable and we're probably bottom 2 defending transition. What concerns me now is that we're not selecting a forward pressure side either.

 

[ant555]

I'm not saying its okay that that coteries have power. I was only looking at it to address how it is that credible sources could be providing information and how credible sources could also be out of the loop.

As for Rutten's appointment, that happened at the end of 2019 for the 2020 handover.

During the 2019 off season we refused to trade Daniher and Fantasia. Hurley and Hooker still had big contracts. Heppell was considered a good player. The list also had Saad and McKenna.

We were no where near the rebuild territory we ended up in by the end of 2020 when we lost Daniher, Saad, McKenna and Fantasia. Hurley, Hooker and Heppell all looked cooked. We then recruit 4 KPPs in the draft signalling the start of the rebuild.

If Daniher and Saad don't leave, we don't have the picks to start the rebuild.

Rutten wasn't selected to do the job he is currently in because that job didn't exist.

I also think as fans we need to distinguish the results from the footy. You could seriously mount a case that the Brisbane win was bottom 3 for worst performances of the year - pressureless circlework trash.

We've had reasonable results before. It's getting the team to defend that is the problem. The post ASADA pattern is a year of bounce created by freedom followed by the players refusing to defend, the results crashing, bouncing the next year ignoring defence and then crashing the next.

Nothing has changed in that regard. My expectations for Rutten didn't centre on finals as much as it did setting up something sustainable and we're probably bottom 2 defending transition. What concerns me now is that we're not selecting a forward pressure side either.

This is the key for me.
My question mark surrounding Rutten is the fact we have a coach learning about coaching while we are doing a bit of a rebuild and trying to change game plans and culture. Truck could well end up being okay but it is a big assignment for an inexperienced coach.
It is a bit different for the Pies and the Hawks as they still have premiership players / players that have played winning finals and are coming of a culture based around strong team defense . We are coming off 15 years of losing culture with very little to show as far as good culture goes.
I would really like to see Truck make it. I do not think his game plan ideas and his vision for blue collar and a change in culture are off the mark. I just suspect the job we need done may be a stretch for a rookie coach and how much buy in he gets from our senior players who are not blue collar and only know a culture of soft football.
Carlton are an example . I think that the aura around Voss has certainly helped get them all on board.

 

[rumply]

Until Caro's sauces confirm it, I'm a non-believer.

 

[DERO]

I (respectfully) disagree with the notion that you need an experienced coach to win a flag. Scott did it in his first year at Geelong.

Fair to say that you need a good coach to win a flag but even then there is a bit of luck needed with list management and injuries.

With that said, is Rutten that inexperienced? He sat next to Hardwick through the three premierships at Richmond prior to landing with us.

Voss’ name is thrown up like he is the reason that Carlton are going well but the truth is their list was building : they took McKay, Curnow and Weitering (2 of which were available at our pick) in the same draft we took Francis and they were smashed by injuries last year. You throw in Hewett, Cera, Docherty, back from injury and Coleman form Curnow, fit Cripps and you have a big part of the reason why they have jumped up the ladder this year I think.

Imagine we had Hewett or Kennedy and not Hams on our list; or Tippa, Snelling and Josh Green fit and running through our forward line. Definitely agree that some of our players lack defensive intent but is this more of a list management issue and bad luck with injuries, than a coaching one? I mean, we were so light on that we were playing Wanganeen earlier in the year!

 

[rumply]

Imagine we had Hewett or Kennedy and not Hams on our list; or Tippa, Snelling and Josh Green fit and running through our forward line. Definitely agree that some of our players lack defensive intent but is this more of a list management issue and bad luck with injuries, than a coaching one. I mean, we were so light on that we were playing Wanganeen earlier in the year!

 

[ant555]

I (respectfully) disagree with the notion that you need an experienced coach to win a flag. Scott did it in his first year at Geelong.

Fair to say that you need a good coach to win a flag but even then there is a bit of luck needed with list management and injuries.

With that said, is Rutten that inexperienced? He sat next to Hardwick through the three premierships at Richmond prior to landing with us.

Voss’ name is thrown up like he is the reason that Carlton are going well but the truth is their list was building : they took McKay, Curnow and Weitering (2 of which were available at our pick) in the same draft we took Francis and they were smashed by injuries last year. You throw in Hewett, Cera, Docherty, back from injury and Coleman form Curnow, fit Cripps and you have a big part of the reason why they have jumped up the ladder this year I think.

Imagine we had Hewett or Kennedy and not Hams on our list; or Tippa, Snelling and Josh Green fit and running through our forward line. Definitely agree that some of our players lack defensive intent but is this more of a list management issue and bad luck with injuries, than a coaching one? I mean, we were so light on that we were playing Wanganeen earlier in the year!

Pretty average example. I am in the minority that rate Scott as a coach and he did have to get the players on board in his first year but they also had the list to do it.
I think you are off the mark with Voss. Sure they added a couple of good players to their list but they had also been under performing given the players they had on their list. They should have played finals in 2020 and 2021 with the players they had. I have had conversations with people who are connected to the Blues and they say the aura of Voss certainly had plenty of cut through with the playing group. It is not just my opinion.
McCrae is doing really well with a rookie coach but Collingwood as a club where coming off one poor season and a string of finals where they won finals.
Where the rookie coaches can fall over is with clubs who have not had a history of finals or good culture or when they have to rebuild. This is where only a few make it and a lot fall by the wayside.
I agree Truck has been a bit unlucky in the fact that he has not had a full list to play with until recently and the fact our list has plenty of gaps in it.
The question I have is does he have the skill set to sell the plan. It is easy to say he sat next to Hardwicke for three flags but it really is a different story when you have to be the man in charge and selling the plan. Brendan Bolton sat next to Clarko for years. He struggled to sell a defensive plan to the Carlton players.
In a lot of ways I really hope Truck stays , we find some improvement next year and we are not just looking for another quick fix.