List Mgmt. Gibbs - 2017 trade discussions! (Gibbs swapped for Wigg or 2nd)

[F_therest]

Really.....?

Last time I bought a car it was the seller that lowered his price.
Fact remains - we never went "after " Gibbs.
He came to us.
Carlton no have a disgruntled player

I wouldn't be paying "overs" for anything, when I can get a promising young player that might play for the next 10 years.

How soon we forget Dangerfield at Number 10.

Let me re-phrase...if the seller isn't actually that keen to sell, then it's up to the buyer to make a tempting offer.
Same other way around, if buyer isn't keen to buy, seller needs to make it tempting.

In this situation Carlton didn't actually want to trade Gibbs if they could help it.

As you say, maybe you never really went 'after' Gibbs, which is why your offer stayed low...neither party was desperate to buy or sell, which is why nothing got done.

 

[skittlebrew]

Carlton would have taken 8 and a 3rd I reckon. That suggestion was just a framework, we could have dressed it up enough with what we had.

I'm inclined to disagree. From start to finish there was nothing to suggest that Carlton were ever asking for anything less than 2x firsts or equivalent (a first plus crouch or lever). They stuck to their guns the whole time, even at the endpoint.
After they worked out the Marchbank deal without us there was no incentive to give him away for anything less than top dollar.
We are talking about a major change of their circumstances and to suggest a minor increase in our offer would of got the job done? Nothing really indicated that we were that close to getting it done imo.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Quite a few of the players live in either Melbourne or on the coast.

Not sure these days .....the Geelong freeway / Westgate Bridge is now a nightmare to traverse

 

[feenix67]

I'm inclined to disagree. From start to finish there was nothing to suggest that Carlton were ever asking for anything less than 2x firsts or equivalent (a first plus crouch or lever). They stuck to their guns the whole time, even at the endpoint.
After they worked out the Marchbank deal without us there was no incentive to give him away for anything less than top dollar.
We are talking about a major change of their circumstances and to suggest a minor increase in our offer would of got the job done? Nothing really indicated that we were that close to getting it done imo.

Oh I agree, the Tuohy trade killed it. The thing is, we should have gotten it done before then, whilst we still had leverage. SOS did say that we were a fair way off, not that it was take it or leave it. I think Andy Mackay said somewhere that a first and a second might have gotten it done.

 

[Pdub]

Not sure these days .....the Geelong freeway / Westgate Bridge is now a nightmare to traverse

Nightmare in the opposite direction to what Geelong footballers who live in the city would face. Josh Caddy was asked about moving to the city after his trade and said he had always lived in the city, I'm sure he's not the only one.


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[King Elvis]

The thing about the whole organic growth thing is that it suggests we have a significant emphasis on bringing young players into the team and getting them up to speed. We dont. We persevere woth ordinary senior players and only bring in young blokes almost as a last resort.

If the club is serious about organic growth we are going to need to see a dramatic change of direction on Thursday nights.

Spot on mate, as usual.

The frustration and anger comes from constantly saying one thing, and then doing another.

Same as the bullshit every Thursday from Campo and Noble about how fantastic it was to have so many good players creating selection pressure from the SANFL... and then releasing a team with barely any changes, and none of those kids.

If our PLAN is for organic growth, then why didn't we PLAN for it by getting games into players this year?

 

[Anzacpaul]

The only things I've heard Carlton ask for were 2 firsts. or a first and a top player.

When asked about the deal, Mckay/SOS always said a long way off what they want essentially.

Carlton didn't want to let him go. They didn't want to deal, they didn't need to.

Not for anything but an offer they couldn't refuse, ie massive overs.

I think it's time we gave this "oh they would have accepted a first and a third and a jar of cookies if Reid had done his job properly" a rest.

 

[King Elvis]

we all know what the clubs real off season plans were. c'mon.

and they were planning it all year. they were so confident in this plan that they didn't make any other plans.

now they are stuck pretending that our new plan was actually the plan all along.

problem is the new plan sucks so much that no one believes it was the plan all along.

now if the clubs original plan didn't involve extreme secrecy and perhaps even certain...exaggerations,

then they might be able to admit to the original plan and admit it failed.

then they would be able to admit that our new plan isn't a plan at all, its just the only thing we can do now.

It's funny that they think stating that their plan was to actually not have a plan, is an acceptable explanation.

 

[Realtrublu]

I look forward to Carlton fans' jealousy over the guy we pick up at 13 for the next decade

Tell him that he's dreaming!

 

[Realtrublu]

The only things I've heard Carlton ask for were 2 firsts. or a first and a top player.

When asked about the deal, Mckay/SOS always said a long way off what they want essentially.

Carlton didn't want to let him go. They didn't want to deal, they didn't need to.

Not for anything but an offer they couldn't refuse, ie massive overs.

I think it's time we gave this "oh they would have accepted a first and a third and a jar of cookies if Reid had done his job properly" a rest.

Correct.

 

[crows1991]

Correct.

And now they have a player who does not want to be there and that they have let down. Not the best recipe for getting the best out of someone

 

[TexFactor]

It's funny that they think stating that their plan was to actually not have a plan, is an acceptable explanation.

they're just wingin it atm.

watch them pick up barlow or someone.

"we decided our organic growth was lacking leadership"

 

[Bicks]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-...-a-different-story-gibbs-family-on-homecoming

CARLTON star Bryce Gibbs could still play for Adelaide one day, his father says, after a proposed trade for the homesick midfielder fell through.

The Crows finished the NAB AFL Trade Period as arguably the biggest loser after failing to strike a deal for Gibbs, having gone public with their desire to bring home the contracted 27-year-old.

Gibbs was keen to return to Adelaide so he and his partner could reconnect with family and receive help with their young son but the Blues played hardball, demanding two first-round draft picks or a first-round selection combined with a quality player.

His father Ross on Saturday said he was disappointed but hadn't given up hope of a future trade for his son, who is contracted until the end of 2019.

"The Crows have had a couple of cracks at Bryce before and haven't quite got it right and they went harder this time so there was genuine hope that he would be able to come home," he told the Adelaide Advertiser.

"But we're a footballing family and know the rules. Obviously we're disappointed that something couldn't be done but Bryce is a contracted player and he'll have to honour that contract.

"Carlton stuck to their guns and the Crows' window of opportunity didn't work out so we all move on. One day it might be a different story."

Gibbs would have no problems returning to Carlton, who had been "fantastic" to him, his father added.

Adelaide powerbroker Mark Ricciuto on Friday admitted the Crows thought Carlton were bluffing when they refused to accept an offer for Gibbs.

Ricciuto, who is chairman of the Crows' list management committee, says it would have been irresponsible to give up what the Blues were demanding.

"We thought that they might have been playing the game and then come back late and said 'OK, he wants to go home. He is probably not going to be in our next premiership side so we'll take somewhere in between'," he told Triple M radio.

"If that happened, the deal would have been done yesterday. But it didn't happen. We were surprised about that, we respect that (but) we are very, very disappointed."

But Carlton football boss Andrew McKay said the Crows had simply underestimated the midfielder's worth.

"We obviously value Bryce more highly than they do," McKay told SEN radio.

"They weren't close. We were very clear with them. It wasn't a matter of us mucking them around at all."

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Nightmare in the opposite direction to what Geelong footballers who live in the city would face. Josh Caddy was asked about moving to the city after his trade and said he had always lived in the city, I'm sure he's not the only one.


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According to media reports .....didn't they say Caddy had just built a house in Geelong?

 

[Realtrublu]

And now they have a player who does not want to be there and that they have let down. Not the best recipe for getting the best out of someone

Both premises are false. They have not let him down. He is a contracted player with 3 years to run in his contract. Second, he is a professional and it is in his interests to perform well. His father was quoted in the Adelaide press yesterday ( look at the piece on afl.com.au ) saying that Bryce will perform and that to date Carlton's treatment of him has been " fantastic".

On the assumption that AFC were not in his ear some months ago ( and on that front they have form e.g., Betts. A fact foolishly confirmed by Trigg soon after arriving at Carlton!) it appears that his request to be traded was made on the eve of the trade period. Realistically that did not give either Adelaide or Carlton any time to broker a deal that was mutually beneficial.

Carlton are in a critical re- build with a new untried coach who has something to prove and with an impatient supporter base. From a reputational and morale standpoint Carlton could not afford to let Gibbs go unless the offer was indisputably too good to refuse.

I suspect that if Gibbs maintains his wish to leave next year both clubs will a have real opportunity and enough time to work behind the scenes to do a deal before the 2017 trade period commences. The fact that he will be 29 then should be irrelevant. He has a history of being relatively injury free and he is a superb athlete.

 

[Geoffa32]

If they hadn't have shat their dacks, they could have done something like we proposed days before the end.

I can't see why GC would accept that trade. Go five spots lower in the draft and get a guy they can get virtually free?? That is a crazy deal for them to do.

How do we know this deal was not put forward and hit with a flat no. We are not privy to what discussions go on behind closed doors or with whom.

 

[Bicks]

Both premises are false. They have not let him down. He is a contracted player with 3 years to run in his contract. Second, he is a professional and it is in his interests to perform well. His father was quoted in the Adelaide press yesterday ( look at the piece on afl.com.au ) saying that Bryce will perform and that to date Carlton's treatment of him has been " fantastic".

On the assumption that AFC were not in his ear some months ago ( and on that front they have form e.g., Betts. A fact foolishly confirmed by Trigg soon after arriving at Carlton!) it appears that his request to be traded was made on the eve of the trade period. Realistically that did not give either Adelaide or Carlton any time to broker a deal that was mutually beneficial.

Carlton are in a critical re- build with a new untried coach who has something to prove and with an impatient supporter base. From a reputational and morale standpoint Carlton could not afford to let Gibbs go unless the offer was indisputably too good to refuse.

I suspect that if Gibbs maintains his wish to leave next year both clubs will a have real opportunity and enough time to work behind the scenes to do a deal before the 2017 trade period commences. The fact that he will be 29 then should be irrelevant. He has a history of being relatively injury free and he is a superb athlete.

Just devalued further is all...

 

[TexFactor]

"The Crows have had a couple of cracks at Bryce before and haven't quite got it right and they went harder this time so there was genuine hope that he would be able to come home," he told the Adelaide Advertiser.

oops. shhhh dad. that's not the story.

he came to us remember?

 

[feenix67]

I can't see why GC would accept that trade. Go five spots lower in the draft and get a guy they can get virtually free?? That is a crazy deal for them to do.

How do we know this deal was not put forward and hit with a flat no. We are not privy to what discussions go on behind closed doors or with whom.

"Something like".

I reckon if the Crows had tried to shop for a higher pick to satisfy Carlton, I reckon we would have heard about it. Youre obviously right, we are speculating, but Roos quote that "we thought Carlton were just playing the game" indicates to me that we tabled an offer and then sat back and waited for them to blink.

PS with GCS having 4 first round picks, and obviously targetting academy players, the five spot drop on 8 wouldn't have hurt them at all.

 

[Bicks]

oops. shhhh dad. that's not the story.

he came to us remember?

Your wrong there, in the past yes, on this occasion it was definitely instigated by Bryce and his management.

 

[Paladin]

What about 2 firsts and getting back Carltons 2017 second. Would that have got it done? I like that trade - some risk but possibly only a small downgrade.

I cant shake the disappointment and anger of not landing Gibbs or improving our midfield.

 

[Geoffa32]

"Something like".

I reckon if the Crows had tried to shop for a higher pick to satisfy Carlton, I reckon we would have heard about it. Youre obviously right, we are speculating, but Roos quote that "we thought Carlton were just playing the game" indicates to me that we tabled an offer and then sat back and waited for them to blink.

I have heard that the Trade Period is like a duck/iceberg.

We (Joe Public) only hear/see a very small percentage of what happens. The extra time the clubs now have is used extensively and they are all quite busy. Many keyboard warriors/armchair critics say how boring it is and ask why it goes so long. But those in the industry know the opposite.

 

[Sanders]

He won't even cost that next year

Actually he'd cost more because we'd have to pay 100% of his salary, unlike this year

We'd also have to commit long term to him, unlike this year

This year was the time to strike

 

[IddyBiddy]

Gibbs isn't/wasn't worth 2 first round picks and he's not the missing piece of the premiership puzzle. It was the right call on Gibbs but Carlton had every right to ask overs given he was contracted. Argue all you like about other failures to trade in other players or picks but the Gibbs call was right one for our club.

 

[Tex200]

I have heard that the Trade Period is like a duck/iceberg.

We (Joe Public) only hear/see a very small percentage of what happens. The extra time the clubs now have is used extensively and they are all quite busy. Many keyboard warriors/armchair critics say how boring it is and ask why it goes so long. But those in the industry know the opposite.

That's great but I think Joe Public can quite properly judge the final result, particularly when Joe Public may be a member that pours thousands of $$ into the club directly and indirectly with TV or Internet subscriptions.

The sum result of a years planning and 2 weeks of running around was trading out a best 22 mid for 43.

I think the extent of failure speaks for itself