Give your opinion on our line up

[Brad Pearce]

I know many people have done this but i need to do it again.

Livingston needs to go, pick 4 in the 2000 draft, 6 years at the club, no signs of anything good.

Wiggins needs to go, mcgrath needs to go. Enough of these 2nd hand pieces of crap.

Bryan needs more of a go as does Jordan Russell

Adam Hartlett will get over injuries and play soon too and we also have Jake Edwards and stuff who are yet to play as well as jesse smith

Thornton should stay, an underrated player but not a full back, would be perfect in the pocket.

Carlton need to look at getting a full back, not 2nd hand crap like saddington but a quality full back or one we can mould into a great player.

If we continue playing the style of footy we are playing, we will not win many games.

Our midfield needs to be looked over. Our forward line is good, but we need lappin down there (3 goals against Adelaide) or whitnall.

Whitnall is a great backman but is more suited to a forward role.

If we start with our backline in this draft, then our midfield the next year and then our forward line.

All this rubbish about Pagan being a crap coach is just that... crap.
In 2004 he took a group of unnoticed players and moulded them into a team that went from finishing 15th in 2003 to almost making the finals. He is a great coach and deserves more respect.

 

[irish_setanta]

Who cares what a RACIST like you thinks

 

[irish_setanta]

Who cares what a RACIST like you thinks

If anyone wants to know why i wrote this refer to the thread "Where the hell is Eddie Betts? " and look what he wrote.

 

[Kooley]

I know many people have done this but i need to do it again.

Livingston needs to go, pick 4 in the 2000 draft, 6 years at the club, no signs of anything good.

Wiggins needs to go, mcgrath needs to go. Enough of these 2nd hand pieces of crap.

Bryan needs more of a go as does Jordan Russell

Adam Hartlett will get over injuries and play soon too and we also have Jake Edwards and stuff who are yet to play as well as jesse smith

Thornton should stay, an underrated player but not a full back, would be perfect in the pocket.

Carlton need to look at getting a full back, not 2nd hand crap like saddington but a quality full back or one we can mould into a great player.

If we continue playing the style of footy we are playing, we will not win many games.

Our midfield needs to be looked over. Our forward line is good, but we need lappin down there (3 goals against Adelaide) or whitnall.

Whitnall is a great backman but is more suited to a forward role.

If we start with our backline in this draft, then our midfield the next year and then our forward line.

All this rubbish about Pagan being a crap coach is just that... crap.
In 2004 he took a group of unnoticed players and moulded them into a team that went from finishing 15th in 2003 to almost making the finals. He is a great coach and deserves more respect.

a stupid thead started by an ordinary poster. off tool.

 

[Brad Pearce]

and a stupid reply by a feeble hack

 

[kouta 4 president]

I know many people have done this but i need to do it again.

Livingston needs to go, pick 4 in the 2000 draft, 6 years at the club, no signs of anything good.

Wiggins needs to go, mcgrath needs to go. Enough of these 2nd hand pieces of crap.

Bryan needs more of a go as does Jordan Russell

Adam Hartlett will get over injuries and play soon too and we also have Jake Edwards and stuff who are yet to play as well as jesse smith

Thornton should stay, an underrated player but not a full back, would be perfect in the pocket.

Carlton need to look at getting a full back, not 2nd hand crap like saddington but a quality full back or one we can mould into a great player.

If we continue playing the style of footy we are playing, we will not win many games.

Our midfield needs to be looked over. Our forward line is good, but we need lappin down there (3 goals against Adelaide) or whitnall.

Whitnall is a great backman but is more suited to a forward role.

If we start with our backline in this draft, then our midfield the next year and then our forward line.

All this rubbish about Pagan being a crap coach is just that... crap.
In 2004 he took a group of unnoticed players and moulded them into a team that went from finishing 15th in 2003 to almost making the finals. He is a great coach and deserves more respect.

I agree with you for most of this, like giving Jordan Russel more of a go, and Whitnal being more suited to forward, and we do need a good, young full back to mould, but this about Pagan not bein a crap coach... now thats crap. A decent coach shouldve taken us higher than... 15th we are now... in the same amount of time. weve always been in the bottom teams for a few years now its time we went back up to the top, where a great team like Carlton belongs, winning another premiership so we can laugh at Essendon for being one premiership behind us time for a new coach i think

 

[bibi01]

I agree with you for most of this, like giving Jordan Russel more of a go, and Whitnal being more suited to forward, and we do need a good, young full back to mould, but this about Pagan not bein a crap coach... now thats crap. A decent coach shouldve taken us higher than... 15th we are now... in the same amount of time. weve always been in the bottom teams for a few years now its time we went back up to the top, where a great team like Carlton belongs, winning another premiership so we can laugh at Essendon for being one premiership behind us time for a new coach i think

the same principle needs to be applied to players as is being applied to the coach

a decent player should be able to hit a target 25 meters away
a decent player should be able to kick a goal from a set shot when inside 50
a decent plaer should be able to hold a mark when not under any pressure
a decent player should be able to run and chase after his opponent

if we have a crap coach then we sure do have a lot of crap players to keep him company.

 

[Jimthegreat]

I know many people have done this but i need to do it again.

Livingston needs to go, pick 4 in the 2000 draft, 6 years at the club, no signs of anything good.

Wiggins needs to go, mcgrath needs to go. Enough of these 2nd hand pieces of crap.

Bryan needs more of a go as does Jordan Russell

Adam Hartlett will get over injuries and play soon too and we also have Jake Edwards and stuff who are yet to play as well as jesse smith

Thornton should stay, an underrated player but not a full back, would be perfect in the pocket.

Carlton need to look at getting a full back, not 2nd hand crap like saddington but a quality full back or one we can mould into a great player.

If we continue playing the style of footy we are playing, we will not win many games.

Our midfield needs to be looked over. Our forward line is good, but we need lappin down there (3 goals against Adelaide) or whitnall.

Whitnall is a great backman but is more suited to a forward role.

If we start with our backline in this draft, then our midfield the next year and then our forward line.

All this rubbish about Pagan being a crap coach is just that... crap.
In 2004 he took a group of unnoticed players and moulded them into a team that went from finishing 15th in 2003 to almost making the finals. He is a great coach and deserves more respect.

We started last, we're still there, no progress, no committment, no passion.......yes we need a new coach. No good going back to last century and saying he's a great coach, that's past him by. 20 loses by 10 goals or more in 75 games probably tells you someting, that's less than 1 in 4. That's appalling. No list is ever that bad. Irrespective of any list you want to still see some sort of progress, which we certainly haven't. If you apply that thought process to Livo, as you have, you have to apply it to Pagan too. Those who think he' a great coach these days are living on hope, not objectiveily, and clutching at straws wishing out of no-where that something will miraculously happen. How many years of embarrassment does it take for that message to get through to some people.

As for the rest of it, McGrath has been handy and has probably done enough to hang around, Livo your right about probably should go but our defence is very average so we probably can't afford to get rid of him. Wiggins probably should've gone ages ago but he's playing some good footy since he's come back into the team. If he continues that he may get a reprieve but if he drops back then he goes.

 

[as0l0]

I think it was good to have Lappin in the forward line and I'd like to see that continue. Apart from the obvious value he adds to the forward line I think big Fev is a happier Fev when Lappin is down there.

 

[one_twelve112]

Let's consider those under about 27 years of age...

We have some players that we can build a team around over the next 5 years and be solid; Waite, Fev, Whitnall, Stevens, Walker, Simpson, Carrazzo, Fisher, Murphy, Kennedy.

A few that may develope; Bower, Edwards, Hartlett, Raso

And others that are currently serviceable, but I would be extremely dissapointed to see on our list and getting a game in 5 years time; Sporn, Prendergast, Chambers, Longmuir, McGrath, Bentick, Saddington, Livingston, Davies, Deluca, Teague, Scotland.

The frightening thing is, that we are fielding and older team than several other club (i.e. Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney...) and find ourselves a long way behind. Is our 'youth policy' simply a throw away line?

 

[one_twelve112]

Sorry, the above post is probably more a of an opinion of where we are at now, not our line up. I didn't read the thread title correctly and I do apologise, nut I guess it may relate to our current line up.

 

[murphster]

The defence this year has done a great job considering the amount of ball and the ease that it has been coming in there, if our midfield was playing to there potential every week and we had a consistant forward structure that had at the least 5 players in there the defence would have half as much pressure on it and would perform really well.

A lot of the goals kicked against us this year and especially in the games where we have been thumped have been kicked by opposition midfielders that are unmanned and run forward of the play as a result of being unmanned, or in a lot of cases those same unmanned midfielders draw our defenders away from there direct opponents by carrying the ball into the forward 50 which results in the forward being unmanned, either way our losses this year are more to do with the midfield than the backline which has done as well as can be expected under the circumstances and probably just as well as any other defence would do under those conditions.

We need accountable midfielders more than anything else, we can get as many defenders as we like but until we improve in the midfield we will still come up with the same result, also a Forward structure that allows us to apply pressure on the opposition defenders so that they can not move it so fast out of there defence and put the above mentioned pressure on our hard working defenders, Lance has moulded that defence into a more than servicable group all they need is more pressure applied up the ground so that they are not left with a job that the likes of the 95 defence would struggle to overcome.

If you want to play the blame game look further up the ground or up into the Coaches box as the midfield and the forward structure, which is set up by the coach, is where the blame lies, not in the lap of our more than capable but under siege backline that is led by the best leader in the team.

 

[saint13]

what frustrates me the most about our current game plan and structure is, why dont we atleast try and play an attacking brand of football? i.e. western bulldogs style, lets load up our forward line with lappin and lance, im not saying we should copy the doggies game plan, all im saying is lets be attacking and see what happens, the doggies backline isnt strong same as ours, but what they do is, play open attacking football, they now they are going to get scored heavily against, but back themselves to out score there opposition, if we got beaten every week trying this style, it would sit alot easier with me, so get rid of the hacks and get the kids in there, and lets start playing attacking footy.

 

[one_twelve112]

The defence this year has done a great job considering the amount of ball and the ease that it has been coming in there, if our midfield was playing to there potential every week and we had a consistant forward structure that had at the least 5 players in there the defence would have half as much pressure on it and would perform really well.

A lot of the goals kicked against us this year and especially in the games where we have been thumped have been kicked by opposition midfielders that are unmanned and run forward of the play as a result of being unmanned, or in a lot of cases those same unmanned midfielders draw our defenders away from there direct opponents by carrying the ball into the forward 50 which results in the forward being unmanned, either way our losses this year are more to do with the midfield than the backline which has done as well as can be expected under the circumstances and probably just as well as any other defence would do under those conditions.

We need accountable midfielders more than anything else, we can get as many defenders as we like but until we improve in the midfield we will still come up with the same result, also a Forward structure that allows us to apply pressure on the opposition defenders so that they can not move it so fast out of there defence and put the above mentioned pressure on our hard working defenders, Lance has moulded that defence into a more than servicable group all they need is more pressure applied up the ground so that they are not left with a job that the likes of the 95 defence would struggle to overcome.

If you want to play the blame game look further up the ground or up into the Coaches box as the midfield and the forward structure, which is set up by the coach, is where the blame lies, not in the lap of our more than capable but under siege backline that is led by the best leader in the team.

Unfortunately I think they are playing to their potential...An average at best ruckman (French/Deluca/McLaren), a captain that couldn't turn around a round-about (Kouta), a gun midfielder with no support (Stevens) and a very weak 4th starter in the centre.

I think you are spot on though, the midfield is the key. They propel our attacks, and if the supply was similar to that of say, St Kilda or West Coast we would be scoring 5-10 goals more a game. The midfielders also provide the pressure on the opposition when they are pushing inside 50. By doing this effectively, they will cause oppositions to experience exactly what we are at the moment; turnovers, poor delivery forward and little quality scoring opportunities.

In 2 years time with a Ruckman, Stevens, Murphy and a quality 4th midfielder and 1 rotating off the bench we will have more potent defensive/attacking tools.

 

[BlueFeaver]

This maybe just me looking through Rose Colored Glasses, but it seems we get back into game when we remove the more senior players from the centre. When the kids are confronted with a situation they don't shirk the issue, this is what needs to happen more often. Why not play the so called senior players off the bench, rather than the other way round.

Our defense has been alright considering the lack of support from the M/F. I find it very hard watching Lance down back, even though he is at the moment All Australian CHB. I think playing Waite at CHB would be a bold but pro-active move. He has that dog in him that our back line is missing. This would also help Walker as there would be another fantastic athlete down back to provide drive forward. Mixed with Thornton and eventually "Harts" this would be the start of something great. Keep Livo in the wings for the moment for the Gorilla's!

The Forward line with both Lance and Fev would be enough to rattle most back halfs. Mixed with Kennedy (more game time), Fischer and Betts. You could even put Murphy in there rotating up the field.

What our side needs is for the kids to take responsibility and form a team within a team (nucleas). The likes of Walker, Murphy, Simpson, Kennedy, Waite, Fischer, Bentick, Russell, Hartlett, Bower and Carrots all need to given opportunity and time.

 

[blueboys1]

We need more accountable Players
Kouta has to go this year he has been a champ now he must move on ( so we can still look up to him as the superstar he was)
Houlihan is no good and must go ( he is a girl)
And all these players have to go as they will never get us anywhere
Sporn, Prendergast, Chambers, Longmuir, Saddington, Livingston, Davies, Deluca, Scotland ,Bannister

Lappin I hope has 2 years left in him
So the players we have to build a team around are
Fev,Stevens,Whinall,Walker,Thornton, Murphy, Simpson, Kennedy, Waite, Fisher, Bentick, Russell, Bower,Edwards, Bryan,Betts
Give the younger players more game time and see if they are any good
not just one game then back to the res stay in for 3 weeks and see what they can do
My best line up as a building block for the furture would be
I know Waite and Fisher are out at the moment so we should try some of the other young players

McGrath Thornton Bryan
Lappin Waite Teague
Simpson Stevens Russell
Fisher Whitnall Murphy
Betts Fev Kennedy
FRENCH Walker Bentick

 

[Brad Pearce]

thanks guys for replying. I have changed my view on PAGAN, GET RID OF HIM GET A NEW COACH & START FRESH!!!

 

[MeeSo]

Our list is comfortably bottom 4 and our midfield is probably bottom 2. Pagan isn't a great coach but anyone expecting massive improvement after he's gone is deluded. A new coach may increase their confidence but that alone won't make them accountable or turn them into skillful players. All we can do is continue to pick quality kids in the draft and wait for them to mature.