Review Good, Bad and Ugly vs Collingwood

[1970crow]

Honest question

When was the last time that Sloane had a dominant game? Not in terms of possessions, but a real dramatic impact on the game? I'm struggling to remember the last time he did.

I don't want to be too critical of him, but I think enough is enough and it's time to make a call and permanently move him out of the middle.

Game after game he gets the lion's share of the CBAs and has no impact.

I've been calling for him to be played off half forward for 2 years now and yet we still persist with him in the middle giving us nothing.

Why not give someone like Jones who is a ball chaser some CBAs and see what he can do, if he gives nothing then it will be no worse than having Sloane in there.

Suns round 3 last year. We were getting beaten, Tex got the goals, but Sloaney turned the game on its head with a dominant period in the guts and then continued to play well.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

What has changed with Nicks?

We had the seeds of decent ball movement last year, some speed.

What did it say on that whiteboard at quarter time - something about “clinical”???

I’d rather have seen “risky”.

That horrid chip and kick stuff is a dead end. Matt Crouch has his positive aspects, but you only need one of him … let’s not try and make a team of MCs.

Slow out of the back line, slow in the Centre bounces, slow in the forward 50m. Yippee.

Sloane is so slow it’s embarrassing. He needs to start his transition out of the middle and out of the 22, but of course he will play every game he can. It will be a long drawn out fizzle for the great club man.

ROB is scaring me. If he doesn’t take contacted marks, I question his worth. His disposal is so bad, so so bad.

I want to see some speed. Some risk. Make other teams worry about SOMETHING!!!

Nicks got spooked thinking our forwards are up against Moore and Howe and instigated a possession game plan to minimise intercept marks

Either there was too much focus on it by nicks or the players didn’t understand there’s a balance to it

Either way it was way overplayed out there

 

[Scorpus]

To be honest , in terms of midfielders I’d be blaming Ogilvie / Reid more than Nicks

Schoenberg is our clear standout young mid , he’d be playing reserves at alot of other clubs

If we went in playing Pedlar Berry Schoenberg as our main mids we would literally get done by 30 goals

We need to roll more numbers thru there no doubt , but nicks also hasn’t got much cattle

We don't need to play young mids as our main mids. We just need to play them there... even some of the time?

The coaches have failed to identify that Keays Crouch and Sloane is a midfield lacking creativity. Players like Crouch or Sloane should be in there with a sole job: get the ball to a creative young midfielder's advantage. That's their KPI. And don't play both of them in there at the same time.

Instead we have all three of them as a plodding midfield unable to execute easy handballs to each other and with no ability to hit up our outside players

 

[Jeffcrowe]

The coaching staff are unable to identify it as an issue. I actually think they believe our midfield is effective.

Just look at our selections and how we structure up. We never change the midfield. But we constantly change everything else. We chop and change forwards (we just dropped Thilthorpe), we swap out our outside players, we bring in Pedlar to play forward, we shuffle around a few defenders.

It looks to me like they think our midfield is struggling because everyone they give it to sucks, not because the midfield itself sucks

Bringing in Pedlar to play forward is a waste of time

We need mids and he’s recruited as a mid . If he’s not fit enough or his body isn’t conditioned enough to play midfield then he should be playing midfield at sanfl level full time until he’s ready

To play him forward at sanfl level is terrible policy

 

[Jeffcrowe]

We don't need to play young mids as our main mids. We just need to play them there... even some of the time?

The coaches have failed to identify that Keays Crouch and Sloane is a midfield lacking creativity. Players like Crouch or Sloane should be in there with a sole job: get the ball to a creative young midfielder's advantage. That's their KPI. And don't play both of them in there at the same time.

Instead we have all three of them as a plodding midfield unable to execute easy handballs to each other and with no ability to hit up our outside players

Agree , we need to roll larger numbers thru

 

[1970crow]

We are scared of being burnt on the rebound which we are unable to defend. The reason we are being burnt is because we’ve got shit kicks except for a small few. Watching Dawson kick is a thing of beauty

We get torched in transition because the crap kicks that cause the turnover then can't defend at all. Nothing changes until the midfield does and that's not changing until the coach is gone. But then it'll just be the same people being presented to, so the next coach will bring near identical philosophies.

 

[Jinglebells32]

Jones just irks me. He is someone who was an elite junior mid having been named on the ball with Sam Walsh in the 2018 U18 AA team, so it was clear he had ability. Since playing AFL, he just completely lacks confidence and composure. He struggles to keep his feet, he rushes his kicks and he looked so clueless in the midfield, the club repositioned him to HB which is the easiest position to play on the ground. Despite some ok performances there last season, he has gone backwards again to start this season.

He's getting closer and closer to being a flop, and it seems to be between the ears rather than lack of talent.

I think Jones and Laird need to swap between defence and on ball. We need Jones to give us a different look on ball. He showed what he can do in there against a strong bulldogs side a couple if years ago with some confidence

 

[skittlebrew]

Here's what Champion Data thought of Matt Crouch's 29 disposal, 158 meters gained, 3 clearance game:



Worst on ground except for the sub

How can you get the ball so much and do so little? Was he just moving the ball back or to the side every time?

You can't afford to be so ineffectual if you're starting in the middle and getting so much of the pill.

Everyone is ripping on Keays so much but at least he's trying to create.

 

[George Kramer]

We get torched in transition because the crap kicks that cause the turnover then can't defend at all. Nothing changes until the midfield does and that's not changing until the coach is gone. But then it'll just be the same people being presented to, so the next coach will bring near identical philosophies.

Hopefully Crouch wants to go at season end. Sloane decides he better retire, Laird goes back to defence and I win the lotto

 

[Jeffcrowe]

What are your thoughts on;
1. McHenry
2. Sloane
3. Himmelberg
4. Jones

McHenry - lacks composure and skill . Has a crack . He’s min level for me

Sloane - needs to play half back ( been saying it for 2+ years ) . He’s been a brilliant player but he just needs to play a role now and be a senior leader

Himmelberg - I don’t even worry about him , he’s just not good enough so when I see him I switch off and just hope he’s not there soon , incredible that he could perform at same level as Fog ( thru Fog being so bad )

Jones - showed good signs last year towards the end . Rates him high in his draft year , his first 2 years development at club was a big slide downhill . Him and Schoenberg have come back worse this year , they are both playing anxious panicked football

Out of those sloane should be winding down and being a role player , Himmelberg I don’t consider an AFL player , McHenry is a just player . Still hope that Jones can be a step up from his decent form end of last year

Fogarty - I don’t think will be on an AFL list end of this contract

 

[1970crow]

Keays is clearly an exceptional midfielder

I’ve mentioned quite a few times I would have played Sloane across half back permanent for last 2 years

Like hawks did with ageing mids eg Hodge , Lewis , Mitchell , Burgoyne even did it

But you’d rather sprout off other stuff when you talk to me , the same stuff

Ok

So the entire problem with our midfield is solved by moving Sloane out? Laird, Keays, Crouch plus a 4th and we're fixed? Keays is an exceptional worker and accumulator. He is an average footballer and he's one of the last blokes you'd want to be leading at. And we don't want Sloane and his shit disposal at half back. All those you listed had elite disposal by foot. Half forward where he can pressure and have shots on goal is his only go. But you and I both know that if he's fit he's playing in the middle.

 

[1970crow]

Fog might get dropped this week , he’s not at the level

0-4 frees , fumbles , trailing in

Keays kicked the ball well yesterday , don’t blame him

How many forwards did he hit up?

 

[Jeffcrowe]

So the entire problem with our midfield is solved by moving Sloane out? Laird, Keays, Crouch plus a 4th and we're fixed? Keays is an exceptional worker and accumulator. He is an average footballer and he's one of the last blokes you'd want to be leading at. And we don't want Sloane and his shit disposal at half back. All those you listed had elite disposal by foot. Half forward where he can pressure and have shots on goal is his only go. But you and I both know that if he's fit he's playing in the middle.

The entire problem of our midfield is solved by recruiting better mids

We currently don’t have them on the list , name me your mids ! You still haven’t done it

So despite the club thinking we are coming out of a rebuild , we are deep within one

Heck the young mid we all rate quite highly Schoenberg wouldn’t be getting a game at half the teams currently

The answers unfort aren’t on our list

If Pedlar can develop into one then that would help , still we need more just as we need more tall forwards and one more high pressure forward

We are in for a long rebuild that realistically might hit its lowest period this year and next year ( worse than 2020) given Tex and Seedsman are 2 of our best players still

 

[1970crow]

You’re comedy sometimes

No he’s not coaching well but I don’t think it’s linked to ghosts

Of course in your job you don't employ people who share your philosophies on how to go about succeeding at your jobs. For a smart bloke you do have some odd blind spots.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

How many forwards did he hit up?

Fogarty ? He pulled the trigger on one good kick that Himmelberg dropped

He’s such a substandard AFL player if you watch without blinkers

0-4 free kicks in marking contests is actually unforgivable . Then there are the fumbles , the faux pressure acts , the lazy trailing in that allows ball to slingshot out

There’s a fair chance he gets dropped this week

 

[1970crow]

The coaching staff are unable to identify it as an issue. I actually think they believe our midfield is effective.

Just look at our selections and how we structure up. We never change the midfield. But we constantly change everything else. We chop and change forwards (we just dropped Thilthorpe), we swap out our outside players, we bring in Pedlar to play forward, we shuffle around a few defenders.

It looks to me like they think our midfield is struggling because everyoner they give it to sucks, not because the midfield itself sucks

This is absolutely spot on. We're a numbers club, how many hit outs, clearance differential and mids possession counts. All look good, ok, so let's look elsewhere. We've not taken into account the relative damage of our midfield and our opponent's. It's ingrained and we only employ people that see the game similarly.

 

[Geoffa32]

We don't need to play young mids as our main mids. We just need to play them there... even some of the time?

The coaches have failed to identify that Keays Crouch and Sloane is a midfield lacking creativity. Players like Crouch or Sloane should be in there with a sole job: get the ball to a creative young midfielder's advantage. That's their KPI. And don't play both of them in there at the same time.

Instead we have all three of them as a plodding midfield unable to execute easy handballs to each other and with no ability to hit up our outside players

Only one of Sloane/Crouch/Laird should be at a stoppage.

Ideally Sloane never, and stay at HF. Or SANFL

Will be interesting to see how Laird plays upon his return. His move to midfield was to cover Crouch absence. He may be more creative/attacking as he was in his AA HB role.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Of course in your job you don't employ people who share your philosophies on how to go about succeeding at your jobs. For a smart bloke you do have some odd blind spots.

It’s a very long bow

There are some things you like to cherry pick

We are clearly the youngest and most inexperienced of the 18 clubs , if we were stuck in your idea of being locked into that culture argument then we wouldn’t be

We’d have Greenwood , CEY playing instead and maybe some mature age 25+ recruits in

Yes we are coaching badly currently . No argument . The game plan yesterday , some selections , some ok

It’s a worry that they reviews recruiting and thought it had been good nearly all years

 

[skittlebrew]

McHenry - lacks composure and skill . Has a crack . He’s min level for me

Sloane - needs to play half back ( been saying it for 2+ years ) . He’s been a brilliant player but he just needs to play a role now and be a senior leader

Himmelberg - I don’t even worry about him , he’s just not good enough so when I see him I switch off and just hope he’s not there soon , incredible that he could perform at same level as Fog ( thru Fog being so bad )

Jones - showed good signs last year towards the end . Rates him high in his draft year , his first 2 years development at club was a big slide downhill . Him and Schoenberg have come back worse this year , they are both playing anxious panicked football

Out of those sloane should be winding down and being a role player , Himmelberg I don’t consider an AFL player , McHenry is a just player . Still hope that Jones can be a step up from his decent form end of last year

Fogarty - I don’t think will be on an AFL list end of this contract

You're being way too soft on Ned. Others just have their heads sticking out further.

Ned fans always use intangibles to support his cause 'he has a crack' or 'he provides pressure' - that's cute. Is he ever going to get the ball and do anything with it? The guy doesn't even play in defence, he's not someone that should be playing a non-statistcial role.

This isn't a second-year player, I'm not unreasonable in expecting a lot more.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

You're being way too soft on Ned. Others just have their heads sticking out further.

Ned fans always use intangibles to support his cause 'he has a crack' or 'he provides pressure' - that's cute. Is he ever going to get the ball and do anything with it? The guy doesn't even play in defence, he's not someone that should be playing a non-statistcial role.

This isn't a second-year player, I'm not unreasonable in expecting a lot more.

Can’t say I’m a ‘fan’

He was putrid yesterday , he’s probably the bare minimum of a player for us currently

At a stronger club he’s playing reserves , I do think with work ethic he has he will survive as a listed AFL player but he’s currently not much more than that

 

[skittlebrew]

Jones just irks me. He is someone who was an elite junior mid having been named on the ball with Sam Walsh in the 2018 U18 AA team, so it was clear he had ability. Since playing AFL, he just completely lacks confidence and composure. He struggles to keep his feet, he rushes his kicks and he looked so clueless in the midfield, the club repositioned him to HB which is the easiest position to play on the ground. Despite some ok performances there last season, he has gone backwards again to start this season.

He's getting closer and closer to being a flop, and it seems to be between the ears rather than lack of talent.

How long can he ride of being a good junior player ffs.

He's getting closer to a flop? He's had how many opportunities now? Time to grow some balls and put a line through him and give others opportunity.

Rachele achieved light-years more in his first game than Jones ever did, you have it or you don't - simples.

 

[Geoffa32]

Jones just irks me. He is someone who was an elite junior mid having been named on the ball with Sam Walsh in the 2018 U18 AA team, so it was clear he had ability. Since playing AFL, he just completely lacks confidence and composure. He struggles to keep his feet, he rushes his kicks and he looked so clueless in the midfield, the club repositioned him to HB which is the easiest position to play on the ground. Despite some ok performances there last season, he has gone backwards again to start this season.

He's getting closer and closer to being a flop, and it seems to be between the ears rather than lack of talent.

I still think Jones issue is Footy IQ and learning the game.

Junior game is more about natural ability.

AFL, especially in the midfield is far more structured and academic. As well as the natural ability. The best mids in this game are great at both aspects.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jeffcrowe]

So the entire problem with our midfield is solved by moving Sloane out? Laird, Keays, Crouch plus a 4th and we're fixed? Keays is an exceptional worker and accumulator. He is an average footballer and he's one of the last blokes you'd want to be leading at. And we don't want Sloane and his shit disposal at half back. All those you listed had elite disposal by foot. Half forward where he can pressure and have shots on goal is his only go. But you and I both know that if he's fit he's playing in the middle.

I think it’s pretty clear by now that Keays is a bit more than an average footballer

Sure we don’t have much else so he stands out but if you can point out all his poor kicks going forward yesterday it would be much appreciated

Thanks in advance

Re Sloane , his kicking would survive at half back where there is generally less pressure on ball carrier and the overall benefit of him out of midfield is worthwhile

He’s probably too slow to play half forward and he will read the ball well in flight and put his body in hole down there

Having said that , I’d rather see him half forward than mid

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I still think Jones issue is Footy IQ and learning the game.

Junior game is more about natural ability.

AFL, especially in the midfield is far more structured and academic. As well as the natural ability. The best mids in this game are great at both aspects.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

I think Jones needs to play with more freedom mentally

He looks anxious constantly , he’s a natural footballer so needs to let instinct take over

Feel as though he was overloaded with info early days and now he thinks too much

 

[Jeffcrowe]

How can you get the ball so much and do so little? Was he just moving the ball back or to the side every time?

You can't afford to be so ineffectual if you're starting in the middle and getting so much of the pill.

Everyone is ripping on Keays so much but at least he's trying to create.

The Keays hate is comical