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If anyone does successfully reinvent themselves around here it winds up like a Madonna reinvention.
Review Good, Bad and Ugly vs Lions
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If anyone does successfully reinvent themselves around here it winds up like a Madonna reinvention.
Good: Had we got that HTB call in the Essendon game we'd be undefeated 5 weeks in a row. Not bad.
Thanks for that link - I wasn't aware of that site, which has some excellent stats.The nerve on that guy to call me pessimistic. I created one of the most positive threads of all time. Of ALL TIME!
Do we lose again ??
Sitting back enjoying a fresh apricot slice, I'm reflecting on our win on Saturday and it begs the question, is there a trophy cabinet big enough for our incoming dynasty?www.bigfooty.com
Looking at the AFLCA votes by club:
| Club | Ladder | Wins | Avg Votes / Game | 1+ Votes | 4+ Votes | 10+ Votes | 10+ as % of Vote Winners |
| Sydney | 1 | 8 | 22.8 | 13 | 10 | 6 | 46.15% |
| Geelong | 2 | 7 | 20 | 16 | 11 | 7 | 43.75% |
| Essendon | 3 | 6.5 | 18 | 15 | 10 | 6 | 40.00% |
| Melbourne | 4 | 6 | 18.6 | 15 | 11 | 5 | 33.33% |
| GWS | 5 | 6 | 17.4 | 15 | 14 | 4 | 26.67% |
| Gold Coast | 6 | 6 | 17.6 | 11 | 10 | 8 | 72.73% |
| Port Adelaide | 7 | 6 | 18.1 | 17 | 11 | 6 | 35.29% |
| Carlton | 8 | 6 | 17.3 | 15 | 9 | 6 | 40.00% |
| Collingwood | 9 | 5.5 | 14.7 | 17 | 10 | 4 | 23.53% |
| Fremantle | 10 | 5 | 20 | 11 | 11 | 7 | 63.64% |
| Western Bulldogs | 11 | 4 | 16.6 | 15 | 11 | 5 | 33.33% |
| Adelaide | 12 | 3.5 | 13 | 13 | 8 | 4 | 30.77% |
| Brisbane | 13 | 3.5 | 13.7 | 13 | 9 | 5 | 38.46% |
| St Kilda | 14 | 3 | 12 | 13 | 9 | 5 | 38.46% |
| Hawthorn | 15 | 3 | 11.3 | 10 | 8 | 5 | 50.00% |
| West Coast | 16 | 2 | 9.7 | 10 | 6 | 3 | 30.00% |
| Richmond | 17 | 1 | 6.6 | 8 | 6 | 2 | 25.00% |
| Norf | 18 | 0 | 2.8 | 6 | 4 | 0 | 0.00% |
Obviously there's a strong correlation between the total number of votes received, and the number of wins (and by extension, ladder position). There's also a correlation between the spread of contributions and the age/experience of the teams.
Adelaide have the 5th youngest & 4th least experienced list in the competiton, and the votes reflect this. The reality is that we have a lot of young & inexperienced players on our list, and most of them aren't contributing enough to earn AFLCA votes, resulting in a higher concentration of our votes.
At the other end of the spectrum, we have Geelong & Collingwood - the two oldest & most experienced lists. It should come as no surprise to anyone that they have the broadest spread of contributors (1+ votes).
Collingwood & GWS have particularly even teams, with only 4 of their vote winners polling 10+ votes, from 17 & 15 contributors who have polled at least once. GWS have more players in the 4-9 vote range than any other team, whereas Collingwood have the most in the 1-3 vote range.
Port Adelaide are an interesting case, with a wide spread of contributors (17x 1+ votes), despite being mid-table for both age & experience.
Fremantle & Gold Coast have 2-speed teams. Both have few contributors (1+ votes), but a very high percentage of those who have polled have received 10+ votes.
GreyCrow
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This is misleading
You can only get votes by playing
Saying we have the 5th and 4th is only for list management
Now do it with who actually played
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- Sep 3, 2018
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I was thinking of his return against Carlton - not his debut against Saints which was ordinary!
And that return happened the following season - so it does support my point. Big fella - in too early - goes away and develops and then looks the part
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Here are the age/experience stats from the last round (courtesy of footywire.com.au):
| Club | Age | Experience |
| Geelong | 27yr 6mth | 136.8 |
| Essendon | 26yr 4mth | 118.3 |
| Sydney | 26yr 4mth | 117.5 |
| Collingwood | 27yr 3mth | 116.7 |
| Brisbane | 25yr 10mth | 112.6 |
| Melbourne | 25yr 7mth | 110 |
| GWS | 25yr 8mth | 108.3 |
| Western Bulldogs | 26yr 3mth | 106.3 |
| Port Adelaide | 26yr | 104.5 |
| St Kilda | 25yr 9mth | 96.3 |
| West Coast | 25yr 2mth | 92.2 |
| Carlton | 25yr 11mth | 89.4 |
| Richmond | 25yr 9mth | 88 |
| Adelaide | 25yr 1mth | 86.5 |
| Fremantle | 24yr 10mth | 86.1 |
| Hawthorn | 24yr 6mth | 85.4 |
| North Melbourne | 24yr 3mth | 78.2 |
| Gold Coast | 24yr | 72.2 |
Adelaide were the 5th youngest & 5th least experienced team for the round, which is entirely consistent with the state of our list.
Apologies to skam85 for incorrectly quoting his post above. I meant to quote the following post, from bonehilda:
This is the site I hadn't seen before, which has an excellent collection of AFL statistics.This site shows all the coaches’ votes
Under the “Select statistical categories” tab select “Show all” and scroll across the stats a little to find every player’s total # of votes and # of matches they’ve received them in, you can filter by team too. Under the header “Match Stats” you can find the voting breakdown for every game as well
Obviously it's not just the average age & experience which matter - it's how that experience is distributed across the group.
Here are the experience figures, from the teams which played R9:
Things to note:
Looking at our AFLCA vote winners...
Adelaide's team list has only 9 players with 100+ games experience, and that includes Sloane, who has now retired without playing a game in 2024. Of the remaining 8 players, 6 have polled AFLCA votes. The exceptions are Smith & Murphy. 100+ game players occupy 4 of the top-6 positions on that list.
Of the other players, Rankine & Fogrty are in their "prime years" - when they should be expected to be performing at their best, and winning votes.
Soligo is the stand-out on the list. Given his lack of age & experience, his prominent position on the list is extremely encouraging. Keane & Worrell haven't accumulated as many votes as Soligo, but their appearance on the list is similarly encouraging.
The correlation between AFLCA votes & experience is clear. It's not the only factor, but it's definitely a significant one.
Here are the experience figures, from the teams which played R9:
| Club | <50 | 50-99 | 100-149 | 150-199 | 200+ | 100+ | 150+ |
| Geelong | 3 | 6 | 5 | 3 | 6 | 14 | 9 |
| Essendon | 4 | 7 | 6 | 3 | 3 | 12 | 6 |
| Sydney | 2 | 10 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 11 | 8 |
| Collingwood | 7 | 6 | 3 | 2 | 5 | 10 | 7 |
| Brisbane | 8 | 1 | 6 | 5 | 3 | 14 | 8 |
| Melbourne | 8 | 4 | 1 | 6 | 4 | 11 | 10 |
| GWS | 7 | 6 | 3 | 1 | 6 | 10 | 7 |
| Western Bulldogs | 8 | 2 | 6 | 4 | 3 | 13 | 7 |
| Port Adelaide | 6 | 7 | 5 | 2 | 3 | 10 | 5 |
| St Kilda | 7 | 4 | 6 | 4 | 2 | 12 | 6 |
| West Coast | 9 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 9 | 5 |
| Carlton | 7 | 4 | 8 | 4 | 0 | 12 | 4 |
| Richmond | 12 | 2 | 4 | 2 | 3 | 9 | 5 |
| Adelaide | 9 | 7 | 3 | 1 | 3 | 7 | 4 |
| Fremantle | 8 | 8 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 7 | 4 |
| Hawthorn | 9 | 7 | 1 | 4 | 2 | 7 | 6 |
| North Melbourne | 11 | 3 | 7 | 1 | 1 | 9 | 2 |
| Gold Coast | 10 | 5 | 5 | 3 | 0 | 8 | 3 |
Things to note:
- No team has fewer 100+ game players than Adelaide, and only Norf & Gold Coast had fewer 150+ game players.
- Adelaide's experience is concentrated in a very small group - primarily Tex, Smith & Laird.
- No team has fewer players in the 100-199 game bracket, and only GWS had as few (and they have 2x as many 200+ gamers).
Looking at our AFLCA vote winners...
| Player | Votes | Games |
| Dawson | 29 | 118 |
| Soligo | 22 | 46 |
| Rankine | 20 | 77 |
| Laird | 10 | 255 |
| Walker | 8 | 268 |
| Crouch | 8 | 151 |
| Keane | 6 | 18 |
| Fogarty | 4 | 88 |
| O'Brien | 3 | 109 |
| Worrell | 3 | 26 |
| Keays | 2 | 122 |
| Hinge | 1 | 52 |
| Rachele | 1 | 43 |
Adelaide's team list has only 9 players with 100+ games experience, and that includes Sloane, who has now retired without playing a game in 2024. Of the remaining 8 players, 6 have polled AFLCA votes. The exceptions are Smith & Murphy. 100+ game players occupy 4 of the top-6 positions on that list.
Of the other players, Rankine & Fogrty are in their "prime years" - when they should be expected to be performing at their best, and winning votes.
Soligo is the stand-out on the list. Given his lack of age & experience, his prominent position on the list is extremely encouraging. Keane & Worrell haven't accumulated as many votes as Soligo, but their appearance on the list is similarly encouraging.
The correlation between AFLCA votes & experience is clear. It's not the only factor, but it's definitely a significant one.
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Our poor drafting goes back further than that.
There’s a lost decade in there, and even when we hit - say 2014 - we lost those players and wasted the draft capital
In fact our post Rendell drafting has been so poor, you have to wonder if it was the development rather than the picks
If anything we play a little younger than that some weeks since we haven't used Sloane at all this year and leaving out your most experienced players drags the average down. Some weeks we've been as high as third youngest/third most inexperienced, but usually hovers around that 4th/5th mark.
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Special mention to Mitch Hinge for grabbing this ball in the clear, waiting a second, then handballing 2m to Brodie Smith with 3 Brisbane players around him with 27 seconds to go
Development or trading.
Dawson came here as a HB, developed into a genuine mid.
Rankine traded here as a forward, never played midfield at GC.
Developed into a potential elite mid.
Our list issues are squarely Hamish's issues. He has done more damage to our club than anyone.
Yes more than Trigg, Burton, Chapman.
Because he is still there.
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Another insightful post full of good information, adding to the conversation, rather than critiquing a poster!.
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I'm not sure our drafting was even that good during Rendell's time. Excluding Walker (who was signed by Fantasia), I'd say there were only four quality picks during Rendell's that we didn't end up losing: Sloane, Talia, Smith and Laird.
Meanwhile we lost Dangerfield, Davis, Gunston and B. Crouch and received back less than we paid each time. Other than Brad Crouch, each has gone on to play more games at their new clubs than they did at the Crows - and Brad may yet do so. Dangerfield and Gunston have played in premierships, Davis was a captain for eight seasons. All huge losses and other than Gunston, all cost us first-round picks.
Beyond that you're looking at the likes of Petrenko, Wright, Lyons, Jaensch, Henderson etc. Bit part players at best.
Is that a good record over five years? An average of one quality player who sticks arounds per draft? Admittedly I haven't looked at our trades over that period of time. Sam Jacobs was a good pickup. Tom Lynch, I guess?
I definitely agree that there should be a serious look at our development processes.
Does sound like a cushy job that you can't get fired from
Jenkins and Betts fit the period?
Jenkins, yes. Rendell was gone before we picked up Betts though.
Don't understand why Essendon would have given up Jenkins.
He was a rookie player and only there for one season. He'd only been playing football for a year or two at that stage. Never played a game for Essendon and was looking for more opportunity.
GreyCrow
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They only have to pinpoint the player
It is the club that is at fault if they leave - or dollars
I think you're being incredibly harsh here. It looks like a weird handball but he had no options at all and was closed down really quickly, he basically grabs the ball and is immediately tackled by Daniher. It's actually a contested ball win for Hinge, 50m from the opposition goal with the scores level and 27 seconds left, and you just want to avoid a turnover here. If he coughs it up Brisbane win.
He handballs to Smith who is instantly tackled, resulting in a stoppage. That's a good result, particularly when the closest 5 players to him other than Smith are all Brisbane players. Butts is somewhere out of shot inside the 50 but that's it.
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