Has Clarkson 'done his time'?

[Shane Heard]

Well it is a bit odd.

Look, I get the offence over Kennett's comments to Rioli's wife regarding her jeans but that's not racist, not that I've heard them claiming as such either though.

Racism would be literally discriminating/demeaning people because of their race itself, which I'm not sure these accusations actually are.

They definitely sound like terrible things to subject people to, that much is clear. I'm not entirely convinced that it's inherently racist though.

It’s not about the jeans.

It’s about “allegedly” a group of senior coaches sitting with an indigenous player and suggesting that the player’s girlfriend get a termination and get her out of his life.

That’s the main one.

That alone (if true) is an absolute disgrace and needs to be addressed or cleared up either way.

It’s clearly a case of “ your word vs mine” and the AFL have obviously taken the word of Clarkson and whoever else was in the room as truthful. As in ..the denial it ever happened.

The fact that Clarkson took leave from his senior appointment at NMFC claiming “ mental stress” says to me he’s worried about something.

 

[bzparkes]

It’s not about the jeans.

It’s about “allegedly” a group of senior coaches sitting with an indigenous player and suggesting that the player’s girlfriend get a termination and get her out of his life.

That’s the main one.

That alone (if true) is an absolute disgrace and needs to be addressed or cleared up either way.

It’s clearly a case of “ your word vs mine” and the AFL have obviously taken the word of Clarkson and whoever else was in the room as truthful. As in ..the denial it ever happened.

The fact that Clarkson took leave from his senior appointment at NMFC claiming “ mental stress” says to me he’s worried about something.

Would it be racist if those same coaches did the same thing to a white player?

 

[Shane Heard]

Would it be racist if those same coaches did the same thing to a white player?

Probably not.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

It possibly gets down to context. Player may have complained about GF and further she was pregnant and he wasn't all that keen. Coaches may have run through options with him inc his partners right to choose a termination.

Player may gone home and told GF coaches said she should consider an abortion. Chinese whispers.

Who knows what went down and how each party interpreted the discussion.

Of course Clarko could have been a tough coach/bully.

 

[Shane Heard]

It possibly gets down to context. Player may have complained about GF and further she was pregnant and he wasn't all that keen. Coaches may have run through options with him inc his partners right to choose a termination.

Player may gone home and told GF coaches said she should consider an abortion. Chinese whispers.

Who knows what went down and how each party interpreted the discussion.

Of course Clarko could have been a tough coach/bully.

Good points.

 

[bzparkes]

Probably not.

Therein lies the problem.

I'm in no way denying the severity of the allegations but not liking what someone says to you doesn't make it 'racist', unless of course they're specifically targeting you because of your race and they only targeted indigenous Australians, when the allegations are said to include non-indigenous also.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Well it is a bit odd.

Look, I get the offence over Kennett's comments to Rioli's wife regarding her jeans but that's not racist, not that I've heard them claiming as such either though.

Racism would be literally discriminating/demeaning people because of their race itself, which I'm not sure these accusations actually are.

They definitely sound like terrible things to subject people to, that much is clear. I'm not entirely convinced that it's inherently racist though.

Come on, ever heard of subtle racism? or racist tropes? A poor Aboriginal who can't look after themselves?

A young aboriginal woman who's likely grown up and heard all sorts of disparaging things about her race and the colour of her skin has it suggested to her from old white elite(with a collection of golliwogs) that she's not dressed appropriately, because she can't afford to buy proper clothes.

It's not all hard to see how she could take Kennett's words as a racially charged swipe at her background.

 

[bzparkes]

Come on, ever heard of subtle racism? or racist tropes? A poor Aboriginal who can't look after themselves?

A young aboriginal woman who's likely grown up and heard all sorts of disparaging things about her race and the colour of her skin has it suggested to her from old white elite(with a collection of golliwogs) that she's not dressed appropriately, because she can't afford to buy proper clothes.

It's not all hard to see how she could take Kennett's words as a racially charged swipe at her background.

Commenting on someone's jeans, in isolation, isn't racist. Sorry to break it to you.

Commenting only on her jeans, if there are other WAGS who wear the same, could definitely be interpreted as being racist.

Or maybe Kennett just doesn't like her and it has nothing to do with her race?

I'm not defending Kennett, he may very well be a racist.

I also had to refuse entry to many people in my restaurant days, due to them being dressed inappropriately for the environment. Does that make me a racist?

Unless you're specifically referencing someone's race in comments, or targeting only a specific group by your actions, then simply claiming someone's racist because you were offended by what they said/did is a lazy go to response.

 

[Frank Thring]

Well it is a bit of a dog’s breakfast OP let’s be honest. But that’s normal for you.

The reality surrounding this whole sordid ordeal is that the AFL have quashed this “report” and are praying it all just drifts away…

So obviously the little angry hobbit will be allowed to return to his job as senior coach of the NMFC.

However, if the accusations are deemed truth somewhere down the track, he’ll have to face the music.

Someone's upset he rejected the Bombers and they had no choice but to take Brad. lol

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Commenting on someone's jeans, in isolation, isn't racist. Sorry to break it to you.

Commenting only on her jeans, if there are other WAGS who wear the same, could definitely be interpreted as being racist.

Or maybe Kennett just doesn't like her and it has nothing to do with her race?

I'm not defending Kennett, he may very well be a racist.

I also had to refuse entry to many people in my restaurant days, due to them being dressed inappropriately for the environment. Does that make me a racist?

Unless you're specifically referencing someone's race in comments, or targeting only a specific group by your actions, then simply claiming someone's racist because you were offended by what they said/did is a lazy go to response.

That’s a dumb comment in bold.
Your restaurant had a dress code, no doubt.

If you’d made a comment towards someone who didn’t meet the dress code which could relate to their socioeconomic standing or background, then yes, it could very well be deemed as racist.

Also, Kennett is definitely a racist. He might not be a card carrying KKK member but when he calls security at the MCG “new arrivals” on the basis of their skin color, he’s indeed racist.
That’s not even to mention his golliwog collection, including dolls named after Aboriginal players like “Buddy”.

You’re statement that you have to reference a persons race or background for it to be racism is quite dated and ignorant, and shows a lack of understanding of cultural sensitivity and the subtleties of casual racism.

 

[bzparkes]

That’s a dumb comment in bold.
Your restaurant had a dress code, no doubt.

If you’d made a comment towards someone who didn’t meet the dress code which could relate to their socioeconomic standing or background, then yes, it could very well be deemed as racist.

Were Kennett's comments specifically aimed at her race, or her taste in clothing? Did he mention her background?

Also, Kennett is definitely a racist. He might not be a card carrying KKK member but when he calls security at the MCG “new arrivals” on the basis of their skin color, he’s indeed racist.
That’s not even to mention his golliwog collection, including dolls named after Aboriginal players like “Buddy”.

I'm not disputing any of that.

You’re statement that you have to reference a persons race or background for it to be racism is quite dated and ignorant, and shows a lack of understanding of cultural sensitivity and the subtleties of casual racism.

If you don't reference someone's race, or background, and they find your comments offensive, that doesn't make it racist.

Stop virtue-signaling.

You're allowed to not like people. That doesn't automatically make you a racist, simply because they can't handle someone not liking them.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Were Kennett's comments specifically aimed at her race, or her taste in clothing? Did he mention her background?

He asked her if she could afford proper clothes. if this doesn’t reference her background and standing in society, what does?

If you don't reference someone's race, or background, and they find your comments offensive, that doesn't make it racist.

Stop virtue-signaling.

You're allowed to not like people. That doesn't automatically make you a racist, simply because they can't handle someone not liking them.

Being insensitive to someone’s background and making judgmental comments that they feel are linked to how they look or their race can absolutely be deemed as racism. This isn’t new.

Don’t use the words virtue signalling if you don’t know what that means.

 

[bzparkes]

He asked her if she could afford proper clothes. if this doesn’t reference her background and standing in society, what does?

Really? You think it's not simply a poorly-received joke, considering they can obviously afford it but also acknowledging than many white players also come from low socio-economic backgrounds?

Ok.

If you choose to see 'racism' in every off the cuff comment, that's on you.

Being insensitive to someone’s background and making judgmental comments that they feel are linked to how they look or their race can absolutely be deemed as racism. This isn’t new.

Yeah, but only if they're not white. If they are, just ignore it I guess.

Don’t use the words virtue signalling if you don’t know what that means.

Feel free to offer a full explanation of virtue signaling then.

 

[Paul Kersey]

It possibly gets down to context. Player may have complained about GF and further she was pregnant and he wasn't all that keen. Coaches may have run through options with him inc his partners right to choose a termination.

Know of a former coach who had a discussion very similar to that after a player came to him.

 

[Leeda]

Weird thread but Clarkson's absence was smart from a legal perspective. He'll soon issue a writ against the ABC.

Master of the universe... Holder of the Key... Rumble in the Jungle... 'Reputations are what they are... something to be triggered.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Really? You think it's not simply a poorly-received joke, considering they can obviously afford it but also acknowledging than many white players also come from low socio-economic backgrounds?

Ok.

If you choose to see 'racism' in every off the cuff comment, that's on you.

Yeah, it’s the First Nations persons fault for being sensitive to racism. Good one.

Yeah, but only if they're not white. If they are, just ignore it I guess.

Oh, you’re one of these guys.
Us whiteys have such a hard time in this world, don’t we?

Feel free to offer a full explanation of virtue signaling then.

I know what it is, and having real world experiences with racism towards young Aboriginal women and understanding what that looks and feels like, isn’t virtue signalling.

 

[bzparkes]

Yeah, it’s the First Nations persons fault for being sensitive to racism. Good one.

The comment re; Jeans from Kennett, in isolation, isn't inherently racist.

If he has a history of only targeting indigenous people with similar comments then yes, I can certainly understand

Oh, you’re one of these guys.
Us whiteys have such a hard time in this world, don’t we?

Yeah, a white person growing up with an abusive childhood, no opportunity, developing a drug and alcohol dependency due to a poor socio-economic upbringing is clearly in a far better position that an indigenous person growing up in the exact same scenario, are they?

Then, if someone makes comments about how they are dressed, are they then racist?

I know what it is, and having real world experiences with racism towards young Aboriginal women and understanding what that looks and feels like, isn’t virtue signalling.

Ok, you're one of those who has to be the 'voice' for the 'oppressed', are you?

If you know what virtue signaling is, explain it to us plebs then.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The comment re; Jeans from Kennett, in isolation, isn't inherently racist.

If he has a history of only targeting indigenous people with similar comments then yes, I can certainly understand

It’s inherently racist if the person on the end of it feels like they are being judged for the color of their skin and their background. End of story.

Yeah, a white person growing up with an abusive childhood, no opportunity, developing a drug and alcohol dependency due to a poor socio-economic upbringing is clearly in a far better position that an indigenous person growing up in the exact same scenario, are they?

Well yes actually they are, by the mere fact that First Nations people face far more hurdles in life, like higher mortality rates, social and financial disadvantage and have a shorter life expectancy.
That’s a documented fact.

Then, if someone makes comments about how they are dressed, are they then racist?

No, because there is no history of Anglo Saxons or white Australians being persectuted, judged, insulted or jokes being made about them for their skin color in this country. It’s pretty simple.

Ok, you're one of those who has to be the 'voice' for the 'oppressed', are you?

If you know what virtue signaling is, explain it to us plebs then.

I’m one of these people who had an Aboriginal partner for almost a decade and lived through multiple instances of racism, both targeted and subtle, form everyone from parents friends, shop owners and the police.

You call it “virtue signalling” where as I call it being aware and educated of racial sensitives in the face of ignorance.

 

[bzparkes]

It’s inherently racist if the person on the end of it feels like they are being judged for the color of their skin and their background. End of story.

You can't decide something's racist if you don't like it, unless you concede that your from earlier 'whiteys' is racist itself, because you've just made a derogatory comment based on your assumed knowledge of the colour of my skin and that's offensive.

Well yes actually they are, by the mere fact that First Nations people face far more hurdles in life, like higher mortality rates, social and financial disadvantage and have a shorter life expectancy.
That’s a documented fact.

Nobody's disputing this. They also have many varied programs that give them considerable opportunities and advantages the rest of us simply will never have access to.

I know this because one of my best mates' is indigenous and I hired him through one of these programs. Since then, he's taken advantage of many different employment, educational and investment opportunities he'd never have had access to if he wasn't indigenous.

I've no issue with this. I think more should take it upon themselves to take advantage of these opportunities to better their lives.

No, because there is no history of Anglo Saxons or white Australians being persectuted, judged, insulted or jokes being made about them for their skin color in this country. It’s pretty simple.

Really? Try being white in FNQ/NT in an indigenous majority community and being beaten up, spat on and insulted for the colour of your skin by indigenous people on a daily basis, like another of my mates' was growing up.

Or, have the judge in a child custody battle award full custody to the drug-addicted mother, so your mate never sees his child again after the age of 4 years because the judge didn't want to 'discriminate' against an indigenous mother as it'd look bad. **** the kids' upbringing and opportunity in life, right?

Just because you don't hear about it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I’m one of these people who had an Aboriginal partner for almost a decade and lived through multiple instances of racism, both targeted and subtle, form everyone from parents friends, shop owners and the police.

You call it “virtue signalling” where as I call it being aware and educated of racial sensitives in the face of ignorance.

Nobody's disputing that indigenous people aren't subject to an alarming amount of racist treatment, but facts override feelings in a court of law.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You can't decide something's racist if you don't like it, unless you concede that your from earlier 'whiteys' is racist itself, because you've just made a derogatory comment based on your assumed knowledge of the colour of my skin and that's offensive.

Ha, this reverse racism shit just makes me laugh.

Nobody's disputing this. They also have many varied programs that give them considerable opportunities and advantages the rest of us simply will never have access to.

I know this because one of my best mates' is indigenous and I hired him through one of these programs. Since then, he's taken advantage of many different employment, educational and investment opportunities he'd never have had access to if he wasn't indigenous.

I've no issue with this. I think more should take it upon themselves to take advantage of these opportunities to better their lives.

Sweet, so a few benefits should square away all the issues I just mentioned and the systemic disadvantage.

Really? Try being white in FNQ/NT in an indigenous majority community and being beaten up, spat on and insulted for the colour of your skin by indigenous people on a daily basis, like another of my mates' was growing up.

Or, have the judge in a child custody battle award full custody to the drug-addicted mother, so your mate never sees his child again after the age of 4 years because the judge didn't want to 'discriminate' against an indigenous mother as it'd look bad. * the kids' upbringing and opportunity in life, right?

Just because you don't hear about it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

These are horrible scenarios but it doesn’t change that I will never face the generations of trauma and systemic disadvantage that First Nations people do.

 

[bzparkes]

Ha, this reverse racism s**t just makes me laugh.

There's no such thing as 'reverse racism', there's only racism. Judging by your comments, you're entirely fine being a racist if it isn't directed towards a group you sympathise with.

Sweet, so a few benefits should square away all the issues I just mentioned and the systemic disadvantage.

Do enough people take them up though?

These are horrible scenarios but it doesn’t change that I will never face the generations of trauma and systemic disadvantage that First Nations people do.

True, but there will come a time where that can no longer be used as an excuse. That time isn't now but it's not too far in the future.

 

[South of the Yarra]

You can't decide something's racist if you don't like it, unless you concede that your from earlier 'whiteys' is racist itself, because you've just made a derogatory comment based on your assumed knowledge of the colour of my skin and that's offensive.



Nobody's disputing this. They also have many varied programs that give them considerable opportunities and advantages the rest of us simply will never have access to.

I know this because one of my best mates' is indigenous and I hired him through one of these programs. Since then, he's taken advantage of many different employment, educational and investment opportunities he'd never have had access to if he wasn't indigenous.

I've no issue with this. I think more should take it upon themselves to take advantage of these opportunities to better their lives.



Really? Try being white in FNQ/NT in an indigenous majority community and being beaten up, spat on and insulted for the colour of your skin by indigenous people on a daily basis, like another of my mates' was growing up.

Or, have the judge in a child custody battle award full custody to the drug-addicted mother, so your mate never sees his child again after the age of 4 years because the judge didn't want to 'discriminate' against an indigenous mother as it'd look bad. * the kids' upbringing and opportunity in life, right?

Just because you don't hear about it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


Nobody's disputing that indigenous people aren't subject to an alarming amount of racist treatment, but facts override feelings in a court of law.

Plese enlighten us on which community in FNQ/NT was doing this. I am intrigued to find out. In regard to court decisions, Aboriginal families are having children removed from them and into care at a far higher rate than anyone else. You may have heard about one case but I suggest that you look at the statistics across the board and see how many Aboriginal families are losing kids. It is another Stolen Generation.

 

[naysayer]

You can't decide something's racist if you don't like it, unless you concede that your from earlier 'whiteys' is racist itself, because you've just made a derogatory comment based on your assumed knowledge of the colour of my skin and that's offensive.



Nobody's disputing this. They also have many varied programs that give them considerable opportunities and advantages the rest of us simply will never have access to.

I know this because one of my best mates' is indigenous and I hired him through one of these programs. Since then, he's taken advantage of many different employment, educational and investment opportunities he'd never have had access to if he wasn't indigenous.

I've no issue with this. I think more should take it upon themselves to take advantage of these opportunities to better their lives.



Really? Try being white in FNQ/NT in an indigenous majority community and being beaten up, spat on and insulted for the colour of your skin by indigenous people on a daily basis, like another of my mates' was growing up.

Or, have the judge in a child custody battle award full custody to the drug-addicted mother, so your mate never sees his child again after the age of 4 years because the judge didn't want to 'discriminate' against an indigenous mother as it'd look bad. * the kids' upbringing and opportunity in life, right?

Just because you don't hear about it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


Nobody's disputing that indigenous people aren't subject to an alarming amount of racist treatment, but facts override feelings in a court of law.

And there it is. In a thread about alleged discrimination against indigenous people, we have the inevitable post about how oppressed white people are.

And that's a FACT, apparently! Whereas discrimination against indigenous people is more likely to be a case hurt feelings.

That's such a fair and unbiased insight, you should tell your indigenous mate. I'm sure he'll agree.

 

[bzparkes]

Plese enlighten us on which community in FNQ/NT was doing this. I am intrigued to find out. In regard to court decisions, Aboriginal families are having children removed from them and into care at a far higher rate than anyone else. You may have heard about one case but I suggest that you look at the statistics across the board and see how many Aboriginal families are losing kids. It is another Stolen Generation.

Karratha was one of the places my mate grew up. Hates them because of the way he was treated as a kid because he was white. He's mentioned similar treatment to non-indigeous in growing up.

 

[bzparkes]

And there it is. In a thread about alleged discrimination against indigenous people, we have the inevitable post about how oppressed white people are.

And that's a FACT, apparently! Whereas discrimination against indigenous people is more likely to be a case hurt feelings.

That's such a fair and unbiased insight, you should tell your indigenous mate. I'm sure he'll agree.

If you look hard enough, everything can be considered racist.

Anyone who uses the term 'reverse racism' deserves ro be ridiculed.

Forgive me if I would like to have a balanced opinion, instead of self-flagellating and wringing my hands because people I don't know do horrible things, just because we're the same skin-colour.

And as for my mate? Well, his opinions of his extended family aren't the most positive, probably due to the fact his uncle's in prison for murder, aunts have been in and out of gaol for drug offences and are alcoholics and the same goes for his cousins. That plus the numerous arrests for thefts, assaults, domestic violence and so forth.

He came back from his grandmother's funeral in SA last year and remarked how much of a stereotype his SA family was, with their bombed out house, rusty car bodies in the backyard, etc. 2nd cousin(a girl) 6 years old and can't read/write and is just neglected due to her parent's drug and alcohol abuse.

I'd say the majority of my 'opinions' come directly from him, and not my own experiences, if you really must know. I've met his immediate family and they're all great but let's not pretend that a lot of these issues in their communities aren't self-inflicted these days.