Coach North under Alastair Clarkson

[Howard Littlejohn]

Do you think Clarkson can take North to the finals by 2027?

2027 is the very earliest and I don't think it will happen (not with a top eight anyway) but I don't think anyone would. The rot was Carlton deep, and without the advantages of a big club and look how long it took them.

The second half of this season has been ahead of expectation; with the defensive absences I wasn't sure of a win this year; but still haven't won a game by outplaying anyone for the bulk of a match. North were seriously staring down the barrel of no finals in the 2020s at all. Now, possibly play a couple toward the end of the decade.

 

[bzparkes]

The jury is out. Our super coach of the 21st century just got done by an interim rookie coach in his third game.

Damien Hardwick got done by 37 points by interim coach Rhyce Shaw coaching his first game with North, in the same season he coached his team to a 89 point grand final win.

Chris Fagan got done by 41 points by interim coach Steven King coaching his third game with the Suns, in the same season he was a bees d*ck away from a Jock Mchale medal.

So it's not the be all and end all.

Hardwick also got done in by the same interim coach just 2 weeks ago

 

[Taper]

2027 is the very earliest and I don't think it will happen (not with a top eight anyway) but I don't think anyone would. The rot was Carlton deep, and without the advantages of a big club and look how long it took them.

The second half of this season has been ahead of expectation; with the defensive absences I wasn't sure of a win this year; but still haven't won a game by outplaying anyone for the bulk of a match. North were seriously staring down the barrel of no finals in the 2020s at all. Now, possibly play a couple toward the end of the decade.

I would argue that Carlton aren't out of the woods yet.
They made a preliminary final last year but so did Richmond in 2001.
One swallow doesn't make a summer.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

I would argue that Carlton aren't out of the woods yet.
They made a preliminary final last year but so did Richmond in 2001.
One swallow doesn't make a summer.

Hawthorn was a Trent Croad poster away from being destroyed by Brisbane in the 2001 grand final. In hindsight, Hawthorn (as well as Richmond) massively overachieved in 2001. Hawthorn traded Croad and Luke McPharlin away to get the first overall pick (and a couple of later picks) in the draft, but proceeded to win 27 of the next 66 games, resulting in Schwab getting sacked/resigning, and Clarkson being appointed to take over as coach. Was six years before Hawthorn played finals again.

 

[EBERT THE KING]

Hes been great for them.

Realistically has got them super compettive in the second half of his first season. 2023 just simply shouldnt count.

No reason they cant contend for a flag from 2028 onwards.

 

[Taper]

Hes been great for them.

Realistically has got them super compettive in the second half of his first season. 2023 just simply shouldnt count.

No reason they cant contend for a flag from 2028 onwards.

Pretty bad finish to the year by North.
Gone backwards compared to last season as their percentage is worse.
Have North really improved under Clarkson compared to how they were under Noble?

 

[Nugett]

North either needs to bite the bullet this year by releasing him from his contract, or back him in for the 5 years. Doing it midway through his contract, will set the club back further to crap levels.

Since 2000 Carlton has had 9 coaches. Every 2.7 years. Each coach brings something different, but each change has seen a stagnation from the players. Melbourne since 2000 has had 8 coaches, for 1 premiership. A coaching change every 3 years. For the most part were languishing on the bottom. Gold Coast Suns since their inception in 2011 has had 4 coaches. A change every 3.75 years. Have never played finals.

On the other spectrum you have Sydney with 3 coaching changes since 2000. A coaching change every 8 years. In that time played in 6 grand finals with 2 premierships. Geelong has had 2 coaches. A change every 12 years. In that time they have won 4 premierships and played in 6 grand finals. Hawthorn since 2000 has had 3 coaches. A change every 8 years. In that time they have won 4 Premierships out of 5 appearances.

A board needs to back their coach. A coach needs to back his team. If your constantly changing, then you won’t get the results your looking for.

 

[Matt Stevic]

North either needs to bite the bullet this year by releasing him from his contract, or back him in for the 5 years. Doing it midway through his contract, will set the club back further to crap levels.

Since 2000 Carlton has had 9 coaches. Every 2.7 years. Each coach brings something different, but each change has seen a stagnation from the players. Melbourne since 2000 has had 8 coaches, for 1 premiership. A coaching change every 3 years. For the most part were languishing on the bottom. Gold Coast Suns since their inception in 2011 has had 4 coaches. A change every 3.75 years. Have never played finals.

On the other spectrum you have Sydney with 3 coaching changes since 2000. A coaching change every 8 years. In that time played in 6 grand finals with 2 premierships. Geelong has had 2 coaches. A change every 12 years. In that time they have won 4 premierships and played in 6 grand finals. Hawthorn since 2000 has had 3 coaches. A change every 8 years. In that time they have won 4 Premierships out of 5 appearances.

A board needs to back their coach. A coach needs to back his team. If your constantly changing, then you won’t get the results your looking for.

Extremely well said mate. Clubs like Carlton and St Kilda never got this memo...

 

[Soggy2112]

North either needs to bite the bullet this year by releasing him from his contract, or back him in for the 5 years. Doing it midway through his contract, will set the club back further to crap levels.

Since 2000 Carlton has had 9 coaches. Every 2.7 years. Each coach brings something different, but each change has seen a stagnation from the players. Melbourne since 2000 has had 8 coaches, for 1 premiership. A coaching change every 3 years. For the most part were languishing on the bottom. Gold Coast Suns since their inception in 2011 has had 4 coaches. A change every 3.75 years. Have never played finals.

On the other spectrum you have Sydney with 3 coaching changes since 2000. A coaching change every 8 years. In that time played in 6 grand finals with 2 premierships. Geelong has had 2 coaches. A change every 12 years. In that time they have won 4 premierships and played in 6 grand finals. Hawthorn since 2000 has had 3 coaches. A change every 8 years. In that time they have won 4 Premierships out of 5 appearances.

A board needs to back their coach. A coach needs to back his team. If your constantly changing, then you won’t get the results your looking for.

Mark Thompson made finals in his first season as coach.

Chris Scott won a premiership in his first season.

John Longmire made finals in his first season.

Paul Roos made finals in his first season.

Clarkson made finals in his third season as has Mitchell.

Voss is going to be backed in, and Goodwin has been backed.

This narrative of “backing the coach”, has become really popular after Thompson and Hardwick were both hugely successful following reviews that nearly led to their sacking. However, it only works with coaches who have demonstrated they are good coaches, who perhaps just need some time to regroup and fix some things.

Obviously Clarkson was a good coach, however, all coaches have a use by date, what’s to say Clarkson hasn’t hit his? What in his tenure at North suggests backing him in is right for the club and not potentially wasting the development years of some key talent?

 

[Nugett]

Mark Thompson made finals in his first season as coach.

Chris Scott won a premiership in his first season.

John Longmire made finals in his first season.

Paul Roos made finals in his first season.

Clarkson made finals in his third season as has Mitchell.

Voss is going to be backed in, and Goodwin has been backed.

This narrative of “backing the coach”, has become really popular after Thompson and Hardwick were both hugely successful following reviews that nearly led to their sacking. However, it only works with coaches who have demonstrated they are good coaches, who perhaps just need some time to regroup and fix some things.

Obviously Clarkson was a good coach, however, all coaches have a use by date, what’s to say Clarkson hasn’t hit his? What in his tenure at North suggests backing him in is right for the club and not potentially wasting the development years of some key talent?

You can also add Sheedy for GWS. Eade at the Suns, Wallace at the Tigers, Malthouse at the Blues. It’s also why I stated that they need to make a decision now, whether to keep or get rid of him. You are correct that coaches have a use by date. Can Clarkson change with the times to rebuild and get the North list on an upward projection? Will he remain stagnant in his thinking and back his past credentials to get him by? So for me it’s either remove him now or keep him.

 

[Cleric]

It's actually a serious issue now with North. They are the worst last 100 game team in history, and next year isn't looking to be any better.
I think it's the best solution for the AFL, reasons being.
1. With an existing Melbourne and Tasmanian supporter base, this will help the new Tasmanian side with support and membership.
2. It will make the competition 18 teams.
3. It will allow the Tasmanian team to be more competitive from the get go, rather than having an under 20s team for the first couple of years. The addition of the good North players around the young kids will help the team immensely, and keep a better age profile.
4. The addition of Clarkson as a senior coach will be a bonus.
5. With there being less of a strain on the young kids in the draft going to Tasmania, it will help ensure any other teams at the bottom of the ladder can still get some decent talent in.

I think it's got to a point where this needs to be a serious conversation moving forward.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

As a Devils member, can i politely say piss off, we dont want that taint!

Sent from my SM-G990E using Tapatalk

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

North either needs to bite the bullet this year by releasing him from his contract, or back him in for the 5 years.

Crazy talk.

They are very much in the position of seeing if he can actually get some development into the list in the next 12 months and improve the gamestyle.

He simply has to in order to survive.

 

[WillHayward]

It's not too late to go to the GC and become the GC Kangaroos.

The Sun's brand is rubbish anyways. No loss ditching it.

 

[Rich01]

Why is all the heat being put on the head coach?

What have his support done to help him in the last couple of years?

The CEO and President still haven’t outlined a strong exit plan from Tasmania, outlining their long term vision and plan to achieve it. Membership has gone backwards, they can’t attract talent to their club and their biggest win off the field in the last 12 months has been signing LDU and Zuurhar to long term contracts and getting pick 3 for Mackay. Has LDU signed yet????

The best thing both Sonja and Jen have done was to FINALLY sack Thomas after multiple recurrences of bad behaviour and go cap in hand to get more draft assistance. Their list management is atrocious. Just because they get a plethora of picks, salary cap space and list spots doesn’t mean you waste it on guys like Pink, Shiels and Howe. Giving guys like Zuurhar a career contract is ok if you know they want to put in, not just cash out a pay cheque.

Theres no one there to challenge Clarko. He has recruited his own team and the CEO and Pres won’t utter a word to pull him into line when needed.

When the club is so rudderless you can’t go blaming the head coach. He can only do what he’s enabled to do.

They need help at the top to set the long term strategy and execute.

They need a list manager who knows what the plan for success is and have the foresight to action it.

They need a strong coaching group that will build a very young list up, knowing that success will take time and these are very much still early developmental years. Whether or not Clarko is the man to do this is a question within itself. But it’s not the solution to their bigger issues.

 

[Rich01]

That ship has sailed.
They do need a strong exit strategy out of Tasmania though. Would be good for those at the top to start working through this.

 

[sherb]

It's actually a serious issue now with North. They are the worst last 100 game team in history, and next year isn't looking to be any better.
I think it's the best solution for the AFL, reasons being.
1. With an existing Melbourne and Tasmanian supporter base, this will help the new Tasmanian side with support and membership.
2. It will make the competition 18 teams.
3. It will allow the Tasmanian team to be more competitive from the get go, rather than having an under 20s team for the first couple of years. The addition of the good North players around the young kids will help the team immensely, and keep a better age profile.
4. The addition of Clarkson as a senior coach will be a bonus.
5. With there being less of a strain on the young kids in the draft going to Tasmania, it will help ensure any other teams at the bottom of the ladder can still get some decent talent in.

I think it's got to a point where this needs to be a serious conversation moving forward.

They can merge with Adelaide.

 

[JackFlash]

Any merger would mean some sort of connection to the North Melbourne of the past, it can't happen that way. It must be Tassie colours, a Tassie nickname and a fully Tasmanian team. North's only option for a merger is to head North! North Queensland or North Sydney? I don't think any of those options would happen either, one thing is for sure, North are now in serious trouble and their survival is looking very Fitzroy like...i hope nothing bad happens in the next 5 years?

 

[Cleric]

They can merge with Adelaide.

Cool post, would read again.

 

[Cleric]

Any merger would mean some sort of connection to the North Melbourne of the past, it can't happen that way. It must be Tassie colours, a Tassie nickname and a fully Tasmanian team. North's only option for a merger is to head North! North Queensland or North Sydney? I don't think any of those options would happen either, one thing is for sure, North are now in serious trouble and their survival is looking very Fitzroy like...i hope nothing bad happens in the next 5 years?

That was the only thing that seemed an issue as well. It wouldnt be a fair merger, but rather a take over.

 

[Sirlemsip]

I think next year is the year that they should significantly improve.

They now have one of the best ruckmen in the comp (Xerri) tapping down to a young midfield that should significantly improve next year (Sheezel, McKercher, Wardlaw, LDU).
They also have an excellent tall forward in Larkey.

If they can pick up a few pieces to plug the massive holes in the list (Tall defenders, 2nd tall forward to take some pressure off Larkey, a decent small forward) I wouldn't be surprised to see them win 8-10 games next year.

If next year they have another <5 win season, it should be time to fold the club.

It is too late to merge with the Tasmanian team, but could see them becoming the core of the next team to enter the competition, whether it be NT or Canberra Kangas. The only problem with that is after Tasmania joins, the next team would be at least another 5 years away after that... if North can't improve, will the competition put up with them for that long?

 

[Nugett]

Crazy talk.

They are very much in the position of seeing if he can actually get some development into the list in the next 12 months and improve the gamestyle.

He simply has to in order to survive.

Agree, he does have the runs on the board, as having some initiative. Brad Scott did a lot of damage before he left.

 

[sherb]

Cool post, would read again.

You should, that way you would maybe get the underlying point.

Which was - it is easy to suggest mergers (or folding, or relocation for that matter) when it is not your club involved.

How do you think North supporters would like being forced to merge? How do you think supporters of the Tassie side (I am one) would like being forced to not be a stand alone entity from the outset?

I'm sure you wouldn't like it being done to your club, but it's okay in your mind to be done to other clubs. Poor form.

Hence my post.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

AFL are footing the bill for Clarko and giving them priority picks for finishing not last, do you think they'll be merged?

 

[MisterMarcus]

It's a pity that their last two games were absolute shockers, because they'd showed enormous promise since the middle of the season. With a bit more composure or luck, they could have had 6-7 wins and would be clearly seen as having turned the corner, and there wouldn't be this kind of talk anymore.

I think they're in much better shape than they have been for a while. Teams like Hawthorn have shown how just keeping a young group together can see a quick turnaround in fortunes.