Autopsy Hawks lose to *

[tige19]

You wrote a post impugning the character of a Hawthorn player then play the victim card when you're called out on it.

Just stop.

I replied to a poster, gave my opinion, you and another didn’t like it so you took issue and pointed me out.. that’s what happened. Play the victim? Errr no.

 

[Davo-27]

watching us play this season feels like a chore, mainly because we play crap football, we are not building for the future, we are not rebuilding, we're putting our finger in the dyke (dutch story) as our premiership stars get slow and lose the fire to succeed we replace them with average players from other clubs, were demanding premierships without doing the work needed to win those premierships, the only player we have brought in recently thats a star is Tom Mitchell and thats only because he has one of the biggest work rates in football.

anyway i enjoy watching u/18 footy for the last 12 months because watching Hawthorn atm is like watching a team you know has major problems and no-one is even willing to admit it has problems.

who are our good players now and into the future? - Frawley, McEvoy, Breust?, Gunston?, Stratton, Scully?, Wingard?, Henderson(now), Mitchell(inj), Impey, JOM, Sicily, Hardwick, Worpel, Scrimshaw, Lewis..... thats 16 players we can rely on most weeks, although Gunston, Breust, Scully, Wingard ect are unreliable at times.

we should have been like Geelong and North when they made big calls on their ageing stars, Geelong and Chris Scott was called ruthless when he chopped his premiership stars, were years behind on drafting, our trades havnt netted us good enough players for the price we have paid, Clarkos first 5-10 years as coach he made very few mistakes as far as list management and drafting were concerned, trading JK, wasting picks on Thorp, Dowler and Ellis, compared to all the wins we had in that period its a small price to pay, but since we won our threepeat there has been no plan for 2016 and beyond, the plan is lets hope some of our premiership players can replicate their old form meanwhile filling in the gaps and hoping to steal a flag before Clarko retires, trying to gamble on bandaids doesnt work and its selfish.

 

[Charchi]

This.

There a multiple reasons for this **** ball movement but number 1 is Clarko trying to protect the defence. Ultra conservative and defensive mindset and it's faarking our attack.

Reason is that he knows our midfield will struggle without Mitchell. So he tries to play possession footy - to deny the oppo possession, and to slow the oppo scoring. Problem is, we then can't score. Then it becomes a ****fest.

We struggled last night for 2 reasons. They smacked us in the centre clearances in the 3rd. Cant defend that. And their half backs in Saad and McKenna broke the lines and took the corridor. Also didn't help that Hurley and Hooker took 24 between em.

Surprised we got within 3 goals.

On top of that our senior guns are flat as. Breust and Gunston are killing us. We rely on them.

Clarko has a choice. Release the shackles and risk a blowout, or a win. Or put up with boring but small losses, and minimal wins. Point blank.

Well it is a self fulfilling prophecy then, by trying to protect the midfield we are actually exposing them to more pressure. By kicking to a contest and not scoring we are getting burnt on the rebound when the midfield is not set up.

Gunstan and Breust are well down because they are being asked to play a style which doesn’t suit them. How many times do we see Poppy as the sole forward against 2 opponents? This surely is not the tactic for a winning team.

I think we should always be playing someone out of the goalsquare to provide a leading target and not the long bomb to a pack or rush back at goal which we currently rely on. Regularly kicking 9,10,11 goals out of 50 plus forward entries says what we are currently doing is not working.

 

[Rev08]

This.

There a multiple reasons for this **** ball movement but number 1 is Clarko trying to protect the defence. Ultra conservative and defensive mindset and it's faarking our attack.

Reason is that he knows our midfield will struggle without Mitchell. So he tries to play possession footy - to deny the oppo possession, and to slow the oppo scoring. Problem is, we then can't score. Then it becomes a ****fest.

We struggled last night for 2 reasons. They smacked us in the centre clearances in the 3rd. Cant defend that. And their half backs in Saad and McKenna broke the lines and took the corridor. Also didn't help that Hurley and Hooker took 24 between em.

Surprised we got within 3 goals.

On top of that our senior guns are flat as. Breust and Gunston are killing us. We rely on them.

Clarko has a choice. Release the shackles and risk a blowout, or a win. Or put up with boring but small losses, and minimal wins. Point blank.

I came here to post pretty much that. I'm tired of seeing calls for Breust, Gunston, Wingard etc to be dropped. They are the victims of poor, slow ball movement, not the cause of our problems.

This is not a solely Clarkson thing either. We simply don't win enough clean ball in space so, game plan or not, the opposition have na eternity to set up in their back half.

Fix the midfield and everything else looks a whole lot better.

 

[OnceKicked50]

Was there last night, ****ing piss poor effort by Hawks fans for such an important game. Anyhow.

I was super annoyed last night, this morning, I'm more resigned to our state to be honest. I just hope Clarko is too.

I have been really disappointed, since the Melbourne loss, Clarko has week-to-week changed his mind about where we are at as a side. I expressed frustration on here when Moore was dropped after his best game, and then Lewis this game. Clarko has yet to embrace planning and playing for 2020. I hope after watching last night he has.

If you look at the worst six ranked players on the ground for us last night, it includes: Bruest, Gunston, O'Meara and Stratton. Too many times, O'Meara aside, these blokes have not delivered this year. Honestly, the reality is they are good players with better players around them. They are not players we can build around and if a side is willing to offer a good package, we would be crazy to tread water here.

O'Meara, ****, I know he is carrying a fair load, but he has been tagged out of games for a month now. 10 of his 24 touches with the game over, spare me.

Clarko, what the **** was he thinking going in so top heavy? I thought maybe Brand forward to try negate Hurley, but if not, how the **** was there ever a matchup for him?

I don't care anymore, I'm going to repeat this, feelings of Wingard aside, the club ****ed up where our list is at. If we don't land Coniglio, and rightfully head to the draft, questions deservedly need to be asked why we made this trade.

It would have been nice with the season shot to watch the continued development of Burton, people are kidding themselves if they don't think he will be a very good player, and say our first round pick like a Duursma running up and down Marvel with some youth and skill. Instead, we see Glass and Cousins who have a crack, but are really limited players.

We are in a really delicate space. Concerning, absolutely. Time to be bold and play the kids, need to see Ross and Jiath, and Lewis back, very soon.

 

[tige19]

Was there last night, ******* piss poor effort by Hawks fans for such an important game. Anyhow.

I was super annoyed last night, this morning, I'm more resigned to our state to be honest. I just hope Clarko is too.

I have been really disappointed, since the Melbourne loss, Clarko has week-to-week changed his mind about where we are at as a side. I expressed frustration on here when Moore was dropped after his best game, and then Lewis this game. Clarko has yet to embrace planning and playing for 2020. I hope after watching last night he has.

If you look at the worst six ranked players on the ground for us last night, it includes: Bruest, Gunston, O'Meara and Stratton. Too many times, O'Meara aside, these blokes have not delivered this year. Honestly, the reality is they are good players with better players around them. They are not players we can build around and if a side is willing to offer a good package, we would be crazy to tread water here.

O'Meara, ****, I know he is carrying a fair load, but he has been tagged out of games for a month now. 10 of his 24 touches with the game over, spare me.

Clarko, what the **** was he thinking going in so top heavy? I thought maybe Brand forward to try negate Hurley, but if not, how the **** was there ever a matchup for him?

I don't care anymore, I'm going to repeat this, feelings of Wingard aside, the club ****** up where our list is at. If we don't land Coniglio, and rightfully head to the draft, questions deservedly need to be asked why we made this trade.

It would have been nice with the season shot to watch the continued development of Burton, people are kidding themselves if they don't think he will be a very good player, and say our first round pick like a Duursma running up and down Marvel with some youth and skill. Instead, we see Glass and Cousins who have a crack, but are really limited players.

We are in a really delicate space. Concerning, absolutely. Time to be bold and play the kids, need to see Ross and Jiath, and Lewis back, very soon.

100% agree on the hawk fans turning out, most here poke shit at people for having opinions but the majority don’t attend or put their hand in their pocket to support the club.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, I won’t judge on the Burton trade yet, I’ve got a lot of time and patience for wingard but the 1st season has been a shocker to this point.

On paper it was a terrible selected side, we where top heavy I agree... KB was a head scratcher as was Glass, I would have been wrapped to get more senior footy into Lewis and play Jones. Hopefully that happens moving forward.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

This.

There a multiple reasons for this **** ball movement but number 1 is Clarko trying to protect the defence. Ultra conservative and defensive mindset and it's faarking our attack.

Reason is that he knows our midfield will struggle without Mitchell. So he tries to play possession footy - to deny the oppo possession, and to slow the oppo scoring. Problem is, we then can't score. Then it becomes a ****fest.

We struggled last night for 2 reasons. They smacked us in the centre clearances in the 3rd. Cant defend that. And their half backs in Saad and McKenna broke the lines and took the corridor. Also didn't help that Hurley and Hooker took 24 between em.

Surprised we got within 3 goals.

On top of that our senior guns are flat as. Breust and Gunston are killing us. We rely on them.

Clarko has a choice. Release the shackles and risk a blowout, or a win. Or put up with boring but small losses, and minimal wins. Point blank.

Clarkson will not release the shackles. You know it and I know it, and for good reason.

The midfield is what it is.

 

[Kanga Commando]

People may blame our forwards, but in the end the delivery to them tonight was absolutely second grade. Pulling hair out type of stuff.

Only solace is that the scum are pretty ****e too.

Our forward entries have been awful all year.

Time for someone to connect the dots..

 

[OnceKicked50]

100% agree on the hawk fans turning out, most here poke **** at people for having opinions but the majority don’t attend or put their hand in their pocket to support the club.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, I won’t judge on the Burton trade yet, I’ve got a lot of time and patience for wingard but the 1st season has been a shocker to this point.

On paper it was a terrible selected side, we where top heavy I agree... KB was a head scratcher as was Glass, I would have been wrapped to get more senior footy into Lewis and play Jones. Hopefully that happens moving forward.

I'm happy to put my hand up and say Wingard isn't the type of player that I like. I hope I am wrong and cop my whack on this in the future.

But, it's more about Wingard was clearly brought in with the club thinking we are close to contending this year and next. Not in 2022. If the club now feels, as some good posters have suggested, 2022 is the timeline, then it would have made more sense to take our first and develop Burton further.

 

[Jaeger]

Game was a sellout. We had as good amount of support as you could hope for an away game at that shit hole. There were plenty of Hawks there, we just didn't have a lot to cheer about.

 

[tige19]

I'm happy to put my hand up and say Wingard isn't the type of player that I like. I hope I am wrong and cop my whack on this in the future.

But, it's more about Wingard was clearly brought in with the club thinking we are close to contending this year and next. Not in 2022. If the club now feels, as some good posters have suggested, 2022 is the timeline, then it would have made more sense to take our first and develop Burton further.

I don’t entirely disagree with you mate, pretty fair summation

 

[tige19]

Game was a sellout. We had as good amount of support as you could hope for an away game at that **** hole. There were plenty of Hawks there, we just didn't have a lot to cheer about.

Didn’t seem like it at the ground. We had more in Adelaide in round 1

 

[thejockey]

I came here to post pretty much that. I'm tired of seeing calls for Breust, Gunston, Wingard etc to be dropped. They are the victims of poor, slow ball movement, not the cause of our problems.

This is not a solely Clarkson thing either. We simply don't win enough clean ball in space so, game plan or not, the opposition have na eternity to set up in their back half.

Fix the midfield and everything else looks a whole lot better.

This . Our midfield is JOM who is playing his 2nd full season in about 5 and 2 kids (Worpel and Cousins ) and a few chipping in here and there .
They are having a crack but simple get overwhelmed .

At the start of the season it was clear this would be an issue in 2019 for us.

 

[Big Hotdog]

It was embarrassing and simple not on. I would expect within the club there should but some sort of action .

But removing him from the captaincy immediately for that is way over the top.

That is the glaring issue for me. A captain doesn't need to be told. They already know.
It's great being the fun, DJ, cool dude but he is now captain. Time to step up.

 

[SuperSic]

I'm happy to put my hand up and say Wingard isn't the type of player that I like. I hope I am wrong and cop my whack on this in the future.

But, it's more about Wingard was clearly brought in with the club thinking we are close to contending this year and next. Not in 2022. If the club now feels, as some good posters have suggested, 2022 is the timeline, then it would have made more sense to take our first and develop Burton further.

Not really, Wingard will still be younger than 30 in 2022. If you look at the age profiles of premiership lists then this makes sense. It is extremely rare to win flags with a median age under 25.

Those people calling for a rebuild don’t understand that it will take a very long time until we get a flag (2026 onwards) if we go down that path. Clarko is trying to accelerate that opportunity by 3-4 years so that he is still around to take us there.

 

[Wingnut19]

Was there last night, ******* piss poor effort by Hawks fans for such an important game. Anyhow.

I was super annoyed last night, this morning, I'm more resigned to our state to be honest. I just hope Clarko is too.

I have been really disappointed, since the Melbourne loss, Clarko has week-to-week changed his mind about where we are at as a side. I expressed frustration on here when Moore was dropped after his best game, and then Lewis this game. Clarko has yet to embrace planning and playing for 2020. I hope after watching last night he has.

If you look at the worst six ranked players on the ground for us last night, it includes: Bruest, Gunston, O'Meara and Stratton. Too many times, O'Meara aside, these blokes have not delivered this year. Honestly, the reality is they are good players with better players around them. They are not players we can build around and if a side is willing to offer a good package, we would be crazy to tread water here.

O'Meara, ****, I know he is carrying a fair load, but he has been tagged out of games for a month now. 10 of his 24 touches with the game over, spare me.

Clarko, what the **** was he thinking going in so top heavy? I thought maybe Brand forward to try negate Hurley, but if not, how the **** was there ever a matchup for him?

I don't care anymore, I'm going to repeat this, feelings of Wingard aside, the club ****** up where our list is at. If we don't land Coniglio, and rightfully head to the draft, questions deservedly need to be asked why we made this trade.

It would have been nice with the season shot to watch the continued development of Burton, people are kidding themselves if they don't think he will be a very good player, and say our first round pick like a Duursma running up and down Marvel with some youth and skill. Instead, we see Glass and Cousins who have a crack, but are really limited players.

We are in a really delicate space. Concerning, absolutely. Time to be bold and play the kids, need to see Ross and Jiath, and Lewis back, very soon.

Bravo. With you on every level.

 

[TazHawk15]

I replied to a poster, gave my opinion, you and another didn’t like it so you took issue and pointed me out.. that’s what happened. Play the victim? Errr no.

Maybe you should just give the Birch bashing bit of a rest.

Most find it tiresome that you feel the need to repeat it over and over and over and over again.

We get it.

 

[OnceKicked50]

Not really, Wingard will still be younger than 30 in 2022. If you look at the age profiles of premiership lists then this makes sense. It is extremely rare to win flags with a median age under 25.

Those people calling for a rebuild don’t understand that it will take a very long time until we get a flag (2026 onwards) if we go down that path. Clarko is trying to accelerate that opportunity by 3-4 years so that he is still around to take us there.

Disagree mate. Categorically, Wingard wasn't recruited with 2022 in mind. Sure he will be under 30, turning 29 in season 2022, but you then have a finite period he may be at his best still. Blokes playing their best footy post 30 generally have to have a really strong level of commitment to their bodies, rehab, training, diet and the game. Is he a David Mundy or Luke Hodge in this sense? hmm..

Alternatively, you have Burton aged 25, in his prime for a number of years, and a first rounder in a deep draft class maybe 50 games into their career.

Given the two collective options, I'd prefer the latter if we are looking to contend from 2022 onwards.

Look, I'm not suggesting an aggressive bottom out rebuild. Only, if the narrative is 2022, we have a number of holes to fill. Take out Frawley, McEvoy, Smith, Henderson, Puopolo and Stratton. And who knows how Bruest, Shiels and Gunston are going.

Ultimately, I think Wingard was recruited thinking we could push with these blokes, and a fit Mitchell, still around. Worth the attempt, maybe. But it doesn't mean we can't judge it accordingly.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Well, before the game Clarko was talking about how important this game was.
We didn't fire - it wasn't a good performance.

Dropping the odd game because your team is full of kids is fine, but when you've lost to Melbourne, St Kilda, Bulldogs and Essendon - who are all really sub-par teams, then you have to admit that the season is shot and ur team is clearly sub par.

I've always wanted to see Sicily up forward - he's not used to it and the forward entries were rubbish. He's still got what it takes to be a gun forward, and that cross to Hendo for the goal was just brilliant. I love that kind of stuff.
Really need Mitch Lewis in that side as much as possible.

O'Meara was flying at the start of the season. The opposition have worked out how to stop him.
Senior players have been flat all year (except McEvoy - love that guy)


It's all just not working out - season is a write off. It's all about development now.

 

[OnceKicked50]

Game was a sellout. We had as good amount of support as you could hope for an away game at that **** hole. There were plenty of Hawks there, we just didn't have a lot to cheer about.

Mate. Please post accurately OK.

Literally 80% Essendon. It was a horrific turnout by Hawks fans, and the game was not a sellout. 44 mate. The place hold 51 I think.

Also, it's one ****ing extra train stop from Flinders. It's literally the easiest ground to get to. Too many Hawks fans think Marvel is Antartica. Piss poor for such a big game. Period.

 

[Flag08]

Clarko has processed the interest out of them. Just let them play footy ffs.

 

[Flag08]

Disagree mate. Categorically, Wingard wasn't recruited with 2022 in mind. Sure he will be under 30, turning 29 in season 2022, but you then have a finite period he may be at his best still. Blokes playing their best footy post 30 generally have to have a really strong level of commitment to their bodies, rehab, training, diet and the game. Is he a David Mundy or Luke Hodge in this sense? hmm..

Alternatively, you have Burton aged 25, in his prime for a number of years, and a first rounder in a deep draft class maybe 50 games into their career.

Given the two collective options, I'd prefer the latter if we are looking to contend from 2022 onwards.

Look, I'm not suggesting an aggressive bottom our rebuild. Only, if the narrative is 2022, we have a number of holes to fill. Take out Frawley, McEvoy, Smith, Henderson, Puopolo and Stratton. And who knows how Bruest, Shiels and Gunston are going.

Ultimately, I think Wingard was recruited thinking we could push with these blokes, and a fit Mitchell, still around. Worth the attempt, maybe. But it doesn't mean we can't judge it accordingly.

The loss of young talent on the list due to the Wingard trade will hurt us for 10 years.

 

[Jaeger]

Mate. Please post accurately OK.

Literally 80% Essendon. It was a horrific turnout by Hawks fans, and the game was not a sellout. 44 mate. The place hold 51 I think.

Also, it's one ******* extra train stop from Flinders. It's literally the easiest ground to get to. Too many Hawks fans think Marvel is Antartica. Piss poor for such a big game. Period.

Perhaps not every Essendon reserved seat member or medallion club turned up but the game was officially sold out.

 

[grumbleguts]

Just a suggestion, but how about kicking it to the Hawk players, instrad of the Essendon ones. Now perhaps one might say the skill isn't there to do that and that is what they are trying to do. But if that's the case, why not kick to the opposition players.

 

[TylerDurden]

Clarkson will not release the shackles. You know it and I know it, and for good reason.

The midfield is what it is.

True. But then we get median scores of circa 60. It won't win games, so then more teeth gnashing.

We've got Chad, Scrim and Birch to come back. Maybe Mitchell late season. But there will be other injuries too.

Still trying to digest the season. I know it's done now.

Massive off season coming up regardless.